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If only Chronicles actually had rules (Beyond the most cursory) for throwing poo poo at people.
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Sep 24, 2018 06:41
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Crasical posted:Primal Urge is their power stat, right? It's not unreasonable to say that the werewolf would get frustrated after like 3 minutes and punt her through a window and then oops looks like something else was closer. Also, I should point out that while werewolves can deal agg, they almost never do. That only happens when they actually eat (as opposed to just bite to death) a human, wolf or werewolf opponent, and that is a huge taboo. Sure, bad things happen when they're in the throes of death rage, but as a rule I would assume they're not using that ability.
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Sep 24, 2018 09:30
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I'm considering running oWoD Vampire again but don't want to deal with every player thinking they've screwed up if they didn't immediately sink five points into Generation. It's tempting to just bolt on Blood Potency or something.
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Sep 24, 2018 13:33
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what if you just cut out generation entirely
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Sep 24, 2018 14:02
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If White Wolf wanted intractable generational struggle to be a core part of the game--that whole Gothic Punk thing--they shouldn't have made it something you can buy, and as cheaply as you can buy money or "Influence" and "Contacts" with vaguely defined utility.
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Sep 24, 2018 14:28
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Terrorforge posted:It's not unreasonable to say that the werewolf would get frustrated after like 3 minutes and punt her through a window and then oops looks like something else was closer. The taboo is against eating human/wolf flesh. Having four natural armor against a wolf that's chewing on you is a pretty good way to get yourself tagged as "not human".
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Sep 24, 2018 14:29
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Dawgstar posted:I'm considering running oWoD Vampire again but don't want to deal with every player thinking they've screwed up if they didn't immediately sink five points into Generation. It's tempting to just bolt on Blood Potency or something. Make Generation an ascribed status thing and use Blood Potency as a power stat. You wouldn't have to change much and it's reasonable that lower generations have more potency as they've typically been around long enough. It also gives the player characters a way to rage against that social system still, but still let's them get more powerful as the game grows up. That way you don't lose much core political tension and it can fill the desires for a lot of ideas of what a RPG should look like these days. Seems easy enough, but it's been 15 years since I paid much attention to Masquerade rules.
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Sep 24, 2018 14:37
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Plus this would mean you could have the equivalent of a vampire furiously going to the gym because some elder assholes were mean to him.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:00
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Even as a big generation fan I say use blood potency. If you still want a mechanical edge to generation let it modestly decrease the XP cost to raise blood potency up to a certain cap while carrying with it its immunities to dominate etc.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:11
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There are some indie games that take some inspiration from Vampire to which you could look for ideas. In Undying, for example, potency of blood is just not a thing, and it all revolves around the class system of Plebeian, Patrician, Princeps. Each playbook has a condition for gaining patrician status and for losing it. I think it's entirely workable that elder vampires aren't elders because their Blood is extra magical, they've just had decades or centuries to consolidate their holdings. On occasion, I rant about just how unworkable "burns to a crisp in the sunlight" is for many of the expectations of Vampire. Someone who actually has the complex setup required to maintain wealth and power without a legal identity has a huge advantage.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:13
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Kurieg posted:The taboo is against eating human/wolf flesh. Having four natural armor against a wolf that's chewing on you is a pretty good way to get yourself tagged as "not human". If that's the case, you can't eat it for agg in the first place. Sure, you probably have more wiggle room in justifying yourself to your local Elodoth, but imo if it's human enough that you can consume it for Essence, it's human enough to cause a breaking point. e: and tbh I think werewolf society would look at you sideways if you did get into the habit of eating unidentified gribblies, semi-human or not Terrorforge fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 15:51
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Loomer posted:I still can't quite get over how incredibly dumb the decision in BNS Werewolf to have the Silent Striders give up the Wheel of Ptah is. On the flip, giving mystically cursed wanderers a home-base is a perversion of terms.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:55
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Gerund posted:On the flip, giving mystically cursed wanderers a home-base is a perversion of terms. Maybe so, but their curse isn't to wander. It's just that they can't go back to Egypt.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:56
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Terrorforge posted:If that's the case, you can't eat it for agg in the first place. Sure, you probably have more wiggle room in justifying yourself to your local Elodoth, but imo if it's human enough that you can consume it for Essence, it's human enough to cause a breaking point. You can consume chunks of Spirits for Essence. Anything else won't give you Essence but sure as hell can be eaten. Uratha are furry garbage disposals on a mission from Luna.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:58
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Dawgstar posted:I'm considering running oWoD Vampire again but don't want to deal with every player thinking they've screwed up if they didn't immediately sink five points into Generation. It's tempting to just bolt on Blood Potency or something. Just assign everyone the same generation according to the power level you want the game to have.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:58
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Joe Slowboat posted:You can consume chunks of Spirits for Essence. Right, but eating doesn't inherently deal aggravated damage. That's specifically a function of consuming flesh for Essence. And spirits are very much not "unidentified gribblies". Werewolves know exactly what they are and hunt them as a matter of course - but you can't actually just take chunks out of them like you can with a human, as far as I know. The only rules governing eating spirits I can find come into play at the end of Siskur-dah.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:07
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Joe Slowboat posted:Uratha are furry garbage disposals on a mission from Luna. "I hate Illinois Pure Tribes!"
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Sep 24, 2018 16:09
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In total fairness, Werewolf Society boils down to a local swap meet and impromptu council. Protectorates are very much not heavily organized, so it's down to what your pack considers okay unless you encroach on the territory of other packs. So if your local pack is totally down with eating random monsters for fun? Sure, do it. The Oath of the Moon's pretty clear, though, on the 'do not eat humans or wolves' bit. Not a lot of wiggle room.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:10
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Loomer posted:Maybe so, but their curse isn't to wander. It's just that they can't go back to Egypt. The mechanics don't say "just Egypt" as their tribal flaw in BNS, soooo
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Sep 24, 2018 16:13
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Mors Rattus posted:So if your local pack is totally down with eating random monsters for fun? Sure, do it. The Oath of the Moon's pretty clear, though, on the 'do not eat humans or wolves' bit. Not a lot of wiggle room. I dunno. In the WoD, "human" is a pretty vague category. Do Claimed count? Vampires? Changelings?
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Sep 24, 2018 16:13
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Yeah, and attoning for a breakpoint towards spirit just takes a big juicy burger or an anime binge with your pals.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:15
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Enjoy posted:Just signed up for my first larp, a Vampire all-nighter in Stockholm in 2 months, wish me luck Trip report: it's really fun and there are some really good roleplayers in the group. I managed to get my Tremere blood bonded to a Sabbat Toreador and sell out my coterie leader's hiding place, which probably means my character won't survive the evening (us newbies were all using one-off characters so it's fine)
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Sep 24, 2018 16:20
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Gerund posted:The mechanics don't say "just Egypt" as their tribal flaw in BNS, soooo You mean the mechanics only made standard by BNS, which were strictly optional previously?
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Sep 24, 2018 16:31
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Kurieg posted:Yeah, and attoning for a breakpoint towards spirit just takes a big juicy burger or an anime binge with your pals. The same is true of murdering your packmates, but that doesn't mean werewolves consider either to be okay, either as a social group or in terms of internal guilt. Some Harmony breaking points are considered neutral acts and some are considered heinous crimes, and this is very much the latter. Sure we can talk about how werewolves are very local and fragmented and differ greatly in their interpretations of the Oath and how some of them could probably talk themselves into believing that near-human supernaturals don't count as "flesh of man", but that sounds like a pretty extreme and unusual position to me, and I would expect that the average werewolf would not deploy Essence cannibalism as a weapon except as a measure of absolute desperation. This is especially true given that human flesh is portrayed as incredibly tempting, bordering on addictive. Meaning that even if you can square it with local interpretations of the Oath, any werewolf who gets a taste for (near-)human flesh is liable to start chowing down on Mrs. Henderson at any time. Good thing the Uratha are well known for their stellar self-control.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:35
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Terrorforge posted:I dunno. In the WoD, "human" is a pretty vague category. Do Claimed count? Vampires? Changelings? 
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Sep 24, 2018 16:40
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Essence cannibalism is the only way an uratha has to reliably kill another Uratha in death frenzy. But killing another Uratha is also against the Oath so whoooops.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:41
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"so whoooops" is admittedly more or less the theme of Werewolf
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Sep 24, 2018 17:01
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Charlz Guybon posted:Just assign everyone the same generation according to the power level you want the game to have. That's the other idea. I was thinking about updating good ol' Chicago by Night and just go 'pick a sire from the book, must be 7th Generation or higher' and if they all pick 7th Generation Kindred then the problem is also solved. I've been watching the LA by Night show on Geek and Sundry, which I tentatively recommend because Erika Ishii's baby Brujah is a delight and the other players are pretty fun as well, so I've been picking up a little on what 5E does. I kind of like the hunger mechanic but I don't think I care for 'to truly sate yourself you gotta drink somebody dry.'
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Sep 24, 2018 17:28
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Kurieg posted:Essence cannibalism is the only way an uratha has to reliably kill another Uratha in death frenzy. But killing another Uratha is also against the Oath so whoooops. Only if they're mismatched, mechanically. Death raging werewolves don't attack death raging werewolves for this very reason, though. Now you and your buddy are tearing up the town together. 'When in Basu-Im, a werewolf suffers rage as though in Gauru, but everyone is a victim except other werewolves in Basu-Im.' The Oath of the Moon is basically there to be broken, as an aside. Similar to Vampire's 'Don't Embrace people or let people know about vampires by ghouling them,' the game isn't just Caine piddling around with no ghouls. It's just the sort of thing that's meant to bring in-game consequences.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:31
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yo question for you guys, is the setting for CoD and WoD, that crappy (like kinda grimdark but not as grim as say WH40k)? Like a recall that it is but that's not saying much.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:02
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Fruity20 posted:yo question for you guys, is the setting for CoD and WoD, that crappy (like kinda grimdark but not as grim as say WH40k)? Like a recall that it is but that's not saying much. WoD is "that Crappy", in spades. CofD can be that crappy, but there's no real overarching conspiracies beyond whatever the God Machine has going on. So the Crappiness is more localized.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:10
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Loomer posted:You mean the mechanics only made standard by BNS, which were strictly optional previously? Why yes, the rules in the BNS game reflect the setting evolution that was written in the BNS game! A left shoe is only weird if you purposefully ignore that a right shoe exists. I get that making the Werewolf: the Apocolypse game into a setting that reflects an actual apocolypse scenario is sad and frustrating and probably the source of 99% of your complaints; but it would be honest of you to allow the BNS game that BNS wrote be criticized for what BNS actually contains.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:32
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There's also the Exarchs! Who are, uh, the symbolic manifestations of 'crappy' - though they're also pretty explicitly not making the world that much worse than it is IRL, other than their specific wizard minions.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:32
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I would WoD is sort of thoughtlessly grimdark, where everyone is wearing leather and anyone important is carrying a Desert Eagle and working for some conspiracy or another, mostly through the accretion of hundreds of writers over decades (mostly the 90's specifically) writing just whatever. Much like conspiracies IRL, your enemies are at once all-powerful and bumbling idiots, and this can change from book-to-book and even paragraph-to-paragraph. For the most part it's supposed to look like Blade or Underworld, or even Dark City, but a lot of stuff comes off as self-parody, especially two decades later. CoD is much more thoughtful and, for the most part, seems to actively avoid "grimdark." Ghosts and conspiracies can be around any corner, but they're not around every corner, and there are definite, deliberate limitations on even the most powerful world-spanning conspiracies meant to limit them and make them approachable as antagonists and to head off questions like "Why don't they shoot lasers and mind-beams at everyone and just take over?" Execution and reception might vary, but the authors clearly thought this through much more than WoD.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:39
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CofD's universal theme is largely 'there is more in Heaven and Earth than is dreamed of in your philosophy.' There's weird poo poo out there. It may not be evil, but it doesn't make sense. Everyone's probably run into a weird thing at some point in their lives, though maybe just the once. Most people forget and move on and have a world that makes sense at the end of the day. Those people aren't PCs, though, mostly. The weird poo poo is not usually inherently evil though it may cause problems. But sometimes it's just 'guy with a fly head orders twelve pizzas, pays in cash, closes his hotel room door and leaves a very confused pizza delivery guy.'
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Sep 24, 2018 20:24
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It used to be the explicit case nWoD was shittier on a mundane level - more corruption, more abuse, more apathy. Can't seem to find any reference to that as of CofD tho, so I guess we're fine now - provided we ignore the thousands of skulking horrors and dozens of near-omnipotent demiurges that will probably only eat like one or two of your closer friends.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:08
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Terrorforge posted:It used to be the explicit case nWoD was shittier on a mundane level - more corruption, more abuse, more apathy. Capitalism's one of the demiurges, so it's already gnawing on most of my closer friends. gently caress the Chancellor, the Silver Ladder leads the way!
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Sep 24, 2018 21:16
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Terrorforge posted:The same is true of murdering your packmates, but that doesn't mean werewolves consider either to be okay, either as a social group or in terms of internal guilt. Some Harmony breaking points are considered neutral acts and some are considered heinous crimes, and this is very much the latter. A good way to consider it is to think of it like how various religious denominations consider whatever concept of sin they have: in theory there are a lot that have similar billing, but your community's going to care way, way more about murder than intentionally not going to church on a Sunday. That might be my reading of Werewolf as being an oddly Catholic game bleeding in though.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:29
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01011001 posted:
Well that explains St. Christopher's dog head i suppose.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:37
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01011001 posted:That might be my reading of Werewolf as being an oddly Catholic game bleeding in though. Well meaning but occasionally impractical to keep rules are pretty much an aspect of all religions. You also have access to the Ghost Wolves, who don't have to agree to abide by any of the Oath's rules. They get theirs in the end, though. They're nice in that they offer a reason for Forsaken-on-Forsaken interactions to lead to violence and distrust, rather than 'we're all on the same team, full stop' and it's justified in cases. It's easy to have a righteous hate-on for the Pure and view killing them as the only way to deal with them, just as it's easy to have a more moderate Forsaken who thinks flat-out killing the Pure diminishes the Uratha as a species. The Mourners lodge was a nice depiction of the other side of things, a group of Pure who are so dastardly zealous that they give other pure the heebee-jeebies, and all they do is kill non-Pure. http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/...629#post1174629 nofather fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 21:40
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