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AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Psychotic Weasel posted:

With the forums back up today's diary can also now be read; it's too late though, Wiz has already gotten me all worked up about city planets and trade routes...

The rest of you can read the diary here though:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-je-maintiendrai-netherlands-focus-tree.1121147/

It shows the changes coming to the Netherlands as well as their justification for choosing them. Seems like they have a lot to choose from, even if they get kicked off the continent early in the war.

Also, I never realized until now the Philips was Dutch multinational - you learn something new every day.
That Dutch focus tree :syoon:

I really appreciate such detailed Dev Diaries compared to what we are seeing Johan give for Imperator.

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SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
They added a "flooded" mechanic for the The Netherlands, -50% divisions speed, +50% defense and +20% entrenchment speed. I hope they add that to more places. China flooded a lot of their own lands too, right?

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

SHISHKABOB posted:

They added a "flooded" mechanic for the The Netherlands, -50% divisions speed, +50% defense and +20% entrenchment speed. I hope they add that to more places. China flooded a lot of their own lands too, right?
The Chinese did a lot, including some flooding, some major river redirection, and I forget what else.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

The Dutch will use their Finishing Move and flood all of Germany.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

SHISHKABOB posted:

They added a "flooded" mechanic for the The Netherlands, -50% divisions speed, +50% defense and +20% entrenchment speed. I hope they add that to more places. China flooded a lot of their own lands too, right?

way more than the dutch. actually if i'm remembering correctly the dutch didn't flood themselves. the germans did it to as part of their response to operation market garden

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Raskolnikov38 posted:

way more than the dutch. actually if i'm remembering correctly the dutch didn't flood themselves. the germans did it to as part of their response to operation market garden
The Dutch wanted to but the German glider/paradrops prevented the Dutch from doing it. Its a big part about why they fell so quickly.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
If I have a field marshal and a general with the same General traits, like say Panzer Expert, do those buffs stack with each other?

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

China getting that ability would be awesome, as it is now in MP they always get capitulated by Japan by '39-40 even with a decent amount of lend lease from the USSR.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

SHISHKABOB posted:

They added a "flooded" mechanic for the The Netherlands, -50% divisions speed, +50% defense and +20% entrenchment speed. I hope they add that to more places. China flooded a lot of their own lands too, right?

That killed too many people and passed the "no actual war crimes please" threshold.


Tahirovic posted:

I just don't get why they're having such problems with updating focus trees. Like that's all scripting, even modders do that. So focus on unfucking the trees of the Soviets, Italy and France, add trees for Spain and other important countries.

We are doing that though? We are just two people working on the Focus trees, and we also have other stuff that needs to be done. That admiral trait tree you saw a few weeks ago? Two thirds of that was content design. Mine Warfare? 25% Content Design. Governments in Exile? 20% Content Design. The Ship Designer that we haven't shown yet? 50% Content Design. A content designer went through all the admirals in the game and adjusted their skill levels to work with the new system. A content designer added all the new tags that will be in 1.6. 3 out of 4 of our programmers aren't native English speakers so guess who writes the tooltips you read to understand all of this poo poo.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

Psychotic Weasel posted:

With the forums back up today's diary can also now be read; it's too late though, Wiz has already gotten me all worked up about city planets and trade routes...

The rest of you can read the diary here though:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-je-maintiendrai-netherlands-focus-tree.1121147/

It shows the changes coming to the Netherlands as well as their justification for choosing them. Seems like they have a lot to choose from, even if they get kicked off the continent early in the war.

Also, I never realized until now the Philips was Dutch multinational - you learn something new every day.

While it all looks like a lot of fun I worry it's going to be a lot like the current UK-colony focuses where it all doesn't really add up to much in gameplay.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
I got a laugh out of this. I've been playing a "peaceful" Germany where I try my hardest not to go to war, and I've been managing it. USSR attacked Poland in April 1941 and... faltered. They got like halfway and in and then got pushed out.

Japan asked to join my faction and I said no, cause I don't want wars, and then they declare on the USSR, and then.... this

The Unthinkable Option

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Hearts of Iron IV: Henri Winkelman and the Prisoner of Afsluitdijk

vanity slug
Jul 20, 2010

Funky Valentine posted:

Hearts of Iron IV: Henri Winkelman and the Prisoner of Afsluitdijk

:gdj:

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe
It's weird how people in this thread seem to think that when the USSR gets its focus tree reworked, it'll happen as just like a secondary aspect of some unrelated expansion. Like I know you want it done NOW, but do you honestly think there isn't going to be an entirely Comintern focused expansion coming up in the near future? Like, they redid Germany and Japan in the Axis-focused Waking the Tiger, now they're redoing the US and UK in the Allied focused Man the Guns. I wonder what could POSSIBLY come next. Truly there is no way to guess.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Buglord

Raskolnikov38 posted:

way more than the dutch. actually if i'm remembering correctly the dutch didn't flood themselves. the germans did it to as part of their response to operation market garden
Chiang Kai Shek oversaw the demolition of a dam on the Yellow River in order to halt the Japanese. That resulted in half a million Chinese deaths and millions more displaced. From what I remember reading Forgotten Ally, the gains from the whole debacle were practically zilch. It also was a big PR nightmare and pushed a lot of formerly apathetic folks into Mao or Japan's side.

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

SHISHKABOB posted:

I got a laugh out of this. I've been playing a "peaceful" Germany where I try my hardest not to go to war, and I've been managing it. USSR attacked Poland in April 1941 and... faltered. They got like halfway and in and then got pushed out.

Japan asked to join my faction and I said no, cause I don't want wars, and then they declare on the USSR, and then.... this

The Unthinkable Option



Other weird nations I've seen in Poland's Balto-Polish alliance: Luxembourg, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Ethiopia.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

chairface posted:

Other weird nations I've seen in Poland's Balto-Polish alliance: Luxembourg, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Ethiopia.

Miedzymorze is kind of everyone's second choice. I think Poland having "neutral" government means that unlike a faction led by a Democratic/Communist/Fascist regime, nobody explicitly wants to avoid teaming up with them, but they generally have more closely politically aligned factions that they might try to join first.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

The Cheshire Cat posted:

I wonder what could POSSIBLY come next. Truly there is no way to guess.

scandinavia because hey at least sweden was more influential on the outcome of the war than the dutch

StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




Raskolnikov38 posted:

scandinavia because hey at least sweden was more influential on the outcome of the war than the dutch

Sven and Finnsk will probably be the Dutch tier hangers-on for the USSR.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Scrap all Soviet content and replace it with Liberia imo

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004

Bang! You're dead.
Podcat is reading this thread and every time Russia is mentioned it's focus tree revamp is bumped down one more spot... at this point Andorra will be added in with a full tree before it.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

The Dutch wanted to but the German glider/paradrops prevented the Dutch from doing it. Its a big part about why they fell so quickly.

the german paratroopers/gliders played almost no role in the inundations, unlesss you mean their role in ending the war earlier.

there was some small scale inundation in the may days of 1940, but dutch military incompetence and the quick loss made it not a big deal

as a side note the goals of the german paras/gliders were capturing the governement and bridges, and capturing airfields as a way to do that. capturing the government failed miserably, but they had some success with the bridges. as a whole though the airborne operations were a failure, with tons of them dying before even reaching the ground or being captured and shipped off the england. The loss of around 200 planes and 40% of their officers ended up crippling them for a while and they didn’t even manage to hold the airfields

really the way sponeck and his men got pushed around by a combination of barely trained recruits, policemen and factory workers was quite embarassing for the germans

Don Gato
Apr 28, 2013

Actually a bipedal cat.
Grimey Drawer

buglord posted:

Chiang Kai Shek oversaw the demolition of a dam on the Yellow River in order to halt the Japanese. That resulted in half a million Chinese deaths and millions more displaced. From what I remember reading Forgotten Ally, the gains from the whole debacle were practically zilch. It also was a big PR nightmare and pushed a lot of formerly apathetic folks into Mao or Japan's side.

You directly order the largest instance of environmental warfare in history and people just don't let you live it down.

It also destroyed some of the most fertile farmland in all of China and it took years to clear the silt and make it suitable for agriculture. Literally was such a propaganda victory for the Japanese and communists in showing how bad the KMT was that the communists actually tried to prevent the KMT and UN from rebuilding the dams years later.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

Psychotic Weasel posted:

Podcat is reading this thread and every time Russia is mentioned it's focus tree revamp is bumped down one more spot... at this point Andorra will be added in with a full tree before it.

let's talk about how any focus tree giving -.5 pp gain, especially forever in the case of japan, is bad then

wow

it sure is bad and unfun!!

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

are you guys saying redirecting a river hundreds of miles off course isn't a wise decision

Class Warcraft
Apr 27, 2006


Davincie posted:

the german paratroopers/gliders played almost no role in the inundations, unlesss you mean their role in ending the war earlier.

there was some small scale inundation in the may days of 1940, but dutch military incompetence and the quick loss made it not a big deal

as a side note the goals of the german paras/gliders were capturing the governement and bridges, and capturing airfields as a way to do that. capturing the government failed miserably, but they had some success with the bridges. as a whole though the airborne operations were a failure, with tons of them dying before even reaching the ground or being captured and shipped off the england. The loss of around 200 planes and 40% of their officers ended up crippling them for a while and they didn’t even manage to hold the airfields

really the way sponeck and his men got pushed around by a combination of barely trained recruits, policemen and factory workers was quite embarassing for the germans

My favorite fallschirmjager fact is that because of their weird parachute setup they basically had to jump into combat unarmed and then just hope that some of the weapon canisters they dropped were nearby.

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe

ArchangeI posted:

That killed too many people and passed the "no actual war crimes please" threshold.


We are doing that though? We are just two people working on the Focus trees, and we also have other stuff that needs to be done. That admiral trait tree you saw a few weeks ago? Two thirds of that was content design. Mine Warfare? 25% Content Design. Governments in Exile? 20% Content Design. The Ship Designer that we haven't shown yet? 50% Content Design. A content designer went through all the admirals in the game and adjusted their skill levels to work with the new system. A content designer added all the new tags that will be in 1.6. 3 out of 4 of our programmers aren't native English speakers so guess who writes the tooltips you read to understand all of this poo poo.

Then maybe you need more people working on it? The problem here is that every time you redo one countries tree it affects all the others, the last couple reworks show this nicely. Italy and Germany can get really weird with the trees of Hungary and the Czechs.

TomViolence
Feb 19, 2013

PLEASE ASK ABOUT MY 80,000 WORD WALLACE AND GROMIT SLASH FICTION. PLEASE.

Since their colonial arch-rival getting a new focus tree I wonder if Portugal's gonna get a rework or if they're saving that for when they do their Spanish Civil War focused DLC, which I'm crossing my fingers and hoping is the next one. Maybe they could do all the latin american nations as w

hahahahaha

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
When do you guys think Man The Guns is coming out? Month from now? Two months?

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

SHISHKABOB posted:

When do you guys think Man The Guns is coming out? Month from now? Two months?

Brexit.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Well the last one took 9 months between DOD to WTT releases so a decent guess would be some time around the holidays.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

bees everywhere posted:

Well the last one took 9 months between DOD to WTT releases so a decent guess would be some time around the holidays.
Ugh but I want it now! I noticed that THE DUTCH focus tree didnt have any placeholder art for the focus icons (except maybe the Java, Sumatra, and Borneo + Great East colonial focuses) so maybe sooner? Please?!?

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
I'm an HoI2 veteran that just got this game and the dlcs. My aggressively jewsish partner is telling my jewish self to pick Hitler for my first game and yeah Germany has always been a good HoI tutorial campaign but it's 2018 and I really don't want to play Hitler. Is there a suggested non-Hitler tutorial country?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm an HoI2 veteran that just got this game and the dlcs. My aggressively jewsish partner is telling my jewish self to pick Hitler for my first game and yeah Germany has always been a good HoI tutorial campaign but it's 2018 and I really don't want to play Hitler. Is there a suggested non-Hitler tutorial country?

Play Germany, pick "oppose Hitler" as your first national focus.

But the literal tutorial country is Italy so you probably ought to start there.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Buglord

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm an HoI2 veteran that just got this game and the dlcs. My aggressively jewsish partner is telling my jewish self to pick Hitler for my first game and yeah Germany has always been a good HoI tutorial campaign but it's 2018 and I really don't want to play Hitler. Is there a suggested non-Hitler tutorial country?

Czechoslovakia is an incredibly good tutorial nation. Its hard to lose, especially when you go democracy.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm an HoI2 veteran that just got this game and the dlcs. My aggressively jewsish partner is telling my jewish self to pick Hitler for my first game and yeah Germany has always been a good HoI tutorial campaign but it's 2018 and I really don't want to play Hitler. Is there a suggested non-Hitler tutorial country?
I'm not sure of a good tutorial country but I felt that the Tutorial combined with the limited feedback that you as a user get from the game was a huge hindrance when I started playing so regardless who you decide to play as, feel free to ask questions here.

buglord posted:

Czechoslovakia is an incredibly good tutorial nation. Its hard to lose, especially when you go democracy.
Eh, maybe. I feel like you need to have a decent idea of what you are doing to Not Die because of a silly oversight.

Nicodemus Dumps
Jan 9, 2006

Just chillin' in the sink

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm an HoI2 veteran that just got this game and the dlcs. My aggressively jewsish partner is telling my jewish self to pick Hitler for my first game and yeah Germany has always been a good HoI tutorial campaign but it's 2018 and I really don't want to play Hitler. Is there a suggested non-Hitler tutorial country?

Italy is the tutorial nation for a reason. You get a small war in Ethiopia to kick things off just to get a feel for the mechanics, if you go Axis you don't have to do the heavy lifting except in the Mediterranean, or if you go Italy first you have a great opportunity to strike at Germany's underbelly when they're engaged elsewhere. If you go the latter path you may just end up with enough industry capacity to then strike at the Allies/Comintern, though you'll probably run into problems taking on the combined American and Royal Navy.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
The USSR can be a good tutorial nation as you pretty much have no threats until 1941, you have only one front to worry about (though it's a big one), and you can ignore the naval game. Just set your dockyards producing convoys forever, and get ready to get invaded from the west.

Make sure you set the national focuses on "historical" at game start though.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Buglord

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Eh, maybe. I feel like you need to have a decent idea of what you are doing to Not Die because of a silly oversight.

:ssh:

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Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm an HoI2 veteran that just got this game and the dlcs. My aggressively jewsish partner is telling my jewish self to pick Hitler for my first game and yeah Germany has always been a good HoI tutorial campaign but it's 2018 and I really don't want to play Hitler. Is there a suggested non-Hitler tutorial country?
There are a lot of mods which replaces Hitler with someone slightly less unpleasant.

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