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EvilJoven posted:Ya but when the Winnipeg bait bike program hit the news people were literally quoted as saying it's unfair to the bike thieves Not very sporting is it?
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Sep 26, 2018 17:34
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And the sad thing is while I support the program and don't think we should be all bike cuck about these thefts, the bleeding hearts do have a point. Nobody out there stealing bikes and selling them to chop shops for $10 or a hit of meth is doing so because that's the career path they were hoping for.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:36
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The solution is clearly to hand out meth. Cut out the middle man!
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Sep 26, 2018 18:29
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zapplez posted:While todays kids arent different than previous generations, todays parents certainly are. People didnt use to call 911 if they saw a 10 year old walking home from school. They do now. Helicopter parents are raising the most unprepared and least independent generation ever. I'm a 911 operator. The only people calling to complain about kids doing kids things (playing sports on the street, hanging out in parks, walking around by themselves) are boomers who spend way too much time looking out their front windows
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Sep 26, 2018 19:10
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Evis posted:The solution is clearly to hand out meth. Cut out the middle man! agreed. do you have a mailing list i can sign up for?
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Sep 26, 2018 19:14
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acumen posted:I'm a 911 operator. The only people calling to complain about kids doing kids things (playing sports on the street, hanging out in parks, walking around by themselves) are boomers who spend way too much time looking out their front windows 1) I don't understand the people who spend all day watching out their living room windows. It's just baffling to me. There are so many other things to do! Social Improvement Suggestion: get everyone a Netflix account, useless calls to 911 drop and everyone wins. 2) Do you have a thread? If not, could you make one, please? I've read a handful of stories current or former 911 operators in various places (all American) and I find those stories fascinating and highly entertaining.
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Sep 26, 2018 19:17
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ExecuDork posted:1) I don't understand the people who spend all day watching out their living room windows. It's just baffling to me. There are so many other things to do! Social Improvement Suggestion: get everyone a Netflix account, useless calls to 911 drop and everyone wins. I have a hard time coming up with stories on the spot and am pretty terrible at telling them. Partially due to the high volume of frivolous or easily resolved (if everyone isn't a raging jerk) calls we get. Stuff you'll find online is probably better than I can come up with. If you have any particular questions though feel free to PM me to avoid further derailing the thread or publicly providing too much information on myself or my job! also lol at thinking some of these people can operate netflix
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Sep 26, 2018 19:35
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EvilJoven posted:. Just wanna drive by here and say that it's super cringy every time you do this, and I'm honestly super embarrassed for you. It's the same way that comparing the US President to something orange really doesn't help their point in any way, and tends to make people with opposing viewpoints dig in more and be less receptive to criticism. Also, it's just super lame and sounds like something my dementia-riddled grandfather would say
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Sep 26, 2018 19:44
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Lobok posted:To be honest, I don't see that as dog-whistling for racists. It sounds exactly like the typical "only poors take the bus" bullshit. ‘I’m not racist, I just think we need more police to watch out for ((the poor))’ take a guess about what ethnicity is seen as synonymous with poverty in Winnipeg
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Sep 26, 2018 20:07
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ante posted:Just wanna drive by here and say that it's super cringy every time you do this, and I'm honestly super embarrassed for you. Not until every single apologist for that Eddie Haskell motherfucker admits he and his party aren't even the lesser of two evils, they're just a touch better at hiding what tremendous pieces of poo poo they are.
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Sep 26, 2018 20:10
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EvilJoven posted:Not until every single apologist for that Eddie Haskell motherfucker admits he and his party aren't even the lesser of two evils, they're just a touch better at hiding what tremendous pieces of poo poo they are. Yup that’s this thread, just a bunch of Trudeau lovers over here
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Sep 26, 2018 20:16
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So does Scheer want a "punishment" system rather than a correctional system? He's railing about McLintic getting moved to a healing facility.
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Sep 26, 2018 20:19
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He's a 'tough on (blue collar) crime' socon. What do you think?
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Sep 26, 2018 20:25
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Arcsquad12 posted:So does Scheer want a "punishment" system rather than a correctional system? He's railing about McLintic getting moved to a healing facility. He wants a retributive system vs a rehabilitative one. Its a popular stance even if it’s a wrong one
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Sep 26, 2018 20:27
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I’d rather have Trudeau in power than Scheer or any of his chucklefuck lackies. A shame Jagmeet is a goddamn nothing blip. What a joke.
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Sep 26, 2018 20:55
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Vintersorg posted:I’d rather have Trudeau in power than Scheer or any of his chucklefuck lackies. A shame Jagmeet is a goddamn nothing blip. What a joke. This. Trudeau sucks but the Cons suck more.
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Sep 26, 2018 21:00
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theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you loving imbeciles
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Sep 26, 2018 21:44
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EvilJoven posted:Not until every single apologist for that Eddie Haskell motherfucker admits he and his party aren't even the lesser of two evils, they're just a touch better at hiding what tremendous pieces of poo poo they are. But... I just told you how that actively hurts your cause. As soon as I read "woke bae" or some variation, I can immediately peg you as a moron with opinions worth ignoring. At least without that phrase, I have to read your whole post before coming to that conclusion
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Sep 26, 2018 22:01
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He's basically just saving you a few minutes.
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Sep 26, 2018 22:03
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If the cons kept winning it might actually mobilize people to put a stop to their bullshit. What we have now it a back and forth between the extremely terrible party and the not as bad but still terrible party. poo poo at this point it wouldn't surprise me if the two parties are actually a single entity playing good politician bad politician while robbing us all blind.
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Sep 26, 2018 22:04
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EvilJoven posted:poo poo at this point it wouldn't surprise me if the two parties are actually a single entity playing good politician bad politician while robbing us all blind. 
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Sep 26, 2018 22:36
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A Typical Goon posted:He wants a retributive system vs a rehabilitative one. Its a popular stance even if it’s a wrong one One of these discursive oddities that bothers me is how this indulgent sadism managed to claim the mantle of "punishment." Cuz it's not.
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Sep 26, 2018 22:41
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So it turns out that Trump really doesn't like Chrystia Freeland. Somehow that makes me feel better.
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Sep 26, 2018 22:54
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Hand Knit posted:One of these discursive oddities that bothers me is how this indulgent sadism managed to claim the mantle of "punishment." Cuz it's not. Cognitive dissonance
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Sep 26, 2018 22:57
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Canuckistan posted:So it turns out that Trump really doesn't like Chrystia Freeland. Somehow that makes me feel better. You'd think they'd come together over their love of Nazis.
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Sep 26, 2018 22:57
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Hand Knit posted:One of these discursive oddities that bothers me is how this indulgent sadism managed to claim the mantle of "punishment." Cuz it's not. Look at the way the internet dogpiles on anyone they deem as having transgressed in some way. Left or right, doesn't matter. People will be out for blood and they will ENJOY it. I think it's this weird human quality where there's so much wrong with the world beyond our control that we indulge in these sadist rituals to vent some of that impotent anger at something. Of course, a good justice system should be built to minimize the impact of this as much as possible. This is why elected judges are such a terrible loving concept - "popular opinion" should not be something on a judge's mind when handing down a sentence.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:02
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infernal machines posted:You'd think they'd come together over their love of Nazis. 
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Sep 26, 2018 23:03
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EvilJoven posted:If the cons kept winning it might actually mobilize people to put a stop to their bullshit. What we have now it a back and forth between the extremely terrible party and the not as bad but still terrible party. I keep thinking im in the USPOL threads where people are trying explain how the dems might be slightly not a terrible murder everyone party compared to the republicans that are slightly more obvious about it? I do kinda feel the same about LPC and CPC now anyways.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:12
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One party has the religious nut jobs. I think I know which I prefer.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:15
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I know I'd much rather eat a spoiled beef sandwich over a poo poo sandwich. On the other hand, I'd rather we learn to cook properly.
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Sep 26, 2018 23:34
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zapplez posted:I know I'd much rather eat a spoiled beef sandwich over a poo poo sandwich. On the other hand, I'd rather we learn to cook properly. Well, I suppose you have the People's Party of Canada as an option for your support now.
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Sep 27, 2018 04:04
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Hand Knit posted:One of these discursive oddities that bothers me is how this indulgent sadism managed to claim the mantle of "punishment." Cuz it's not. I think this ties in to the essentialization that's really common in these kinds of discussions. A lot of our thinking about other people is coloured by the fundamental attribution error, where we attribute others' actions to innate inner states of being. So if someone commits a crime they're a criminal, not a person who has committed a crime. It's a completely different category of person, criminal as something that you are rather than crime as something that you do. And once you cross the line from citizen to criminal, you're considered irredeemable. It's like the fact you were a criminal was always hiding inside you waiting to get out, and now that you've committed a crime we finally learned who you really are. Get caught with some drugs? You broke the law, which puts you in the same category as murderers and rapists. Might as well lock you up forever and be as sadistic as possible because you're a criminal. This frequently comes up in death penalty debates as well--if someone's a criminal it means they're irredeemable and they might as well be dead. You see this kind of distinction a lot in the gun debate, where conservatives talk about how criminals won't obey any new laws, and law-abiding gun owners will obey all of them--ignoring the fact that every single person is a law-abiding citizen up until the moment they commit a crime, and having guns around when someone commits a crime is more dangerous than not having them around. Of course, as a good leftie I would disagree with this and try to reframe our popular image of crime by focusing on the action itself and the circumstances surrounding it, because a lot of crime is highly circumstantial: people stealing because they're poor, or doing drugs as a coping mechanism, or shooting someone in the heat of an argument. As a result, a rehabilitative system that helps people avoid ending up in desperate circumstances after release from prison is much more likely to actually reduce crime than one focused on being as punitive as possible. There are very few people out there who fit this stereotype of criminals who just love breaking laws and will break as many laws as they can, and as a result need to be removed from society for society's benefit. Yes, there are serial offenders and the justice system does need a way of dealing with the Bill Cosbys of the world. But there's a big difference between that and a lot of the petty crime that ruins people's lives by giving them a criminal record. The justice system shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all response to all forms of crime. Funnily enough, despite the above example, the place where you don't see this framing is in a lot of sexual assault debates, where people instead focus on the attacker's other innate attributes and dismiss the assault as a one-time thing (how can we ruin this kid's bright future over one mistake??? He's always treated me with dignity and respect! Funny how people usually don't defend murderers by saying "well he never murdered me, so clearly he couldn't have murdered that other person"). Maybe because in these cases a lot of men think back on how they themselves have mistreated women but don't want to think of themselves in the essentializing category of "sexual assaulter" so they instead allow for circumstance rather than saying "he's a criminal, gently caress him". I don't know, just spitballing.
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Sep 27, 2018 05:54
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Cons or Libs the results are the same, the difference is the layer of phony left-sounding bullshit rhetoric the Libs pile on top. The Conservatives are awful, but at least they're honest about their intentions. The NDP feel irrelevant under Singh. Next election I'll probably vote Marxist-Leninist or just muck my ballot.
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Sep 27, 2018 06:21
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vyelkin posted:I think this ties in to the essentialization that's really common in these kinds of discussions. A lot of our thinking about other people is coloured by the fundamental attribution error, where we attribute others' actions to innate inner states of being. So if someone commits a crime they're a criminal, not a person who has committed a crime. It's a completely different category of person, criminal as something that you are rather than crime as something that you do. And once you cross the line from citizen to criminal, you're considered irredeemable. It's like the fact you were a criminal was always hiding inside you waiting to get out, and now that you've committed a crime we finally learned who you really are. Get caught with some drugs? You broke the law, which puts you in the same category as murderers and rapists. Might as well lock you up forever and be as sadistic as possible because you're a criminal. This frequently comes up in death penalty debates as well--if someone's a criminal it means they're irredeemable and they might as well be dead. I'm not flummoxed by it or anything, I just find it weird and unpleasant. I actually think that the diagnosis isn't all that complicated. The public justification for incarceration tends to flow back and forth between retribution/punishment and rehabilitation. The public justification, while affecting some characteristics of incarceration, greatly underdetermines the nature of incarceration/punishment. Rather, the nature of I/P flows much more from the nature of state power, and broader features determining the state apparatus. The state (or power in general, when incarceration is not administered by the state) is able to use the language of public justification to support whatever system that either it wants to put forward or simply emerges. But notice the story that you give in the first two paragraphs lends itself much more to rehabilitation than punishment. A criminal is a criminal and a criminal forever — their treatment is justified by the impossibility of reforming them. Punishment is present in the language of dessert but not much more. There's nothing about retribution, nothing about tying that retribution to an act, and nothing about proportioning the retribution. Ironically, this suggests that our system could do from an increase on punishment. That whatever suffering is visited upon the offender can be no more than that which is in proportion to the crime they have committed or harm they have inflicted. Looking at it this way, I think we can draw out an interesting point about historical wrongs (and include sexual assault under this umbrella). Rehabilitation seems like kind of a moot point. The offender has moved on, and may have grown as a person to some degree. Focusing on rehabilitation may even be insulting in some cases: imagine being told that my attack of you is somehow less bad or less deserving of action because I have become a better person for it. That there could be any justice at all in historical cases depends upon there being a substantive approach other than that of rehabilitation. There's a lot of yadda yadda here, I guess. About how this whole story points to the fact that we (ought to) have values to orient criminal justice that supersede rehabilitation and punishment. About how prison abolition is ultimately the correct path. Whatever. My point is just that the way we seem to think about punishment and rehabilitation is hosed, and I think we've ceded some important discursive ground on punishment.
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Sep 27, 2018 10:39
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vyelkin posted:I think this ties in to the essentialization that's really common in these kinds of discussions. A lot of our thinking about other people is coloured by the fundamental attribution error, where we attribute others' actions to innate inner states of being. [...] This is an excellent post. Thank you 
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Sep 27, 2018 11:07
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So in a move that will shock no one, the OPCs have stalled the planned Ontario minimum wage increase. To allow businesses to "catch up," lol. They will not say whether or not they will ever actually allow the raise to $15 (hint: they won't).
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Sep 27, 2018 12:00
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Faded Mars posted:So in a move that will shock no one, the OPCs have stalled the planned Ontario minimum wage increase. To allow businesses to "catch up," lol. They will not say whether or not they will ever actually allow the raise to $15 (hint: they won't). Dont worry they will raise it in 2027 or so. When a litre of gas costs 13.55
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Sep 27, 2018 12:01
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Faded Mars posted:So in a move that will shock no one, the OPCs have stalled the planned Ontario minimum wage increase. To allow businesses to "catch up," lol. They will not say whether or not they will ever actually allow the raise to $15 (hint: they won't). On the other side of the country, Alberta's minimum wage is going to $15/hour on monday and everybody is FREAKING THE gently caress OUT. just kidding nobody really cares because all the doomsday scenarios the right screamed about through the last 2 increases didn't happen at all. The minimum wage went up and more jobs were created and restaurants are still a thing.
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Sep 27, 2018 12:15
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Even all those bitchy Subway owners in Hinton? Or was it Edson, one of the rural towns
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Sep 27, 2018 15:12
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I should move further west, I could use the increase in pay.
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Sep 27, 2018 15:12
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