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katkillad2 posted:It's almost like... you can play these games and never buy into the microtransactions. Weird! It didn't, although it has "lootboxes" (actual containers with random loot for quest rewards) so it was probably planned to have microtransactions at some point during development. Also we all know publishers would raise prices with or without microtransactions present. Because originally people went "instead of $60 games I'll take $50 games and DLC/microtransactions". In a few years it's going to be "oh well, as long as they don't try to raise prices from $70 to $80, I'll take microtransations". And considering what absolute shitloads of profit even the full price games with whaling options make, "DLC/microtransactions are there to pay for support/servers/maintenance so we can keep prices lower" has never been less true. But yeah, you don't have to buy them. Just as you don't have to like them. Or buy FO76. Or post on the internet 
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Sep 28, 2018 09:58
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I'm tired of publishers bring vilified all the time like devs hate money or something
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Sep 28, 2018 11:35
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Donovan Trip posted:I'm tired of publishers bring vilified all the time like devs hate money or something "Devs" is a funny short hand for shareholders and CEOs.
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Sep 28, 2018 12:05
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orcane posted:It didn't, although it has "lootboxes" (actual containers with random loot for quest rewards) so it was probably planned to have microtransactions at some point during development. I don't think so. Nothing about the game design accommodates the typical mt model. And the loot boxes in the game are a way of giving you semi randomized resources (that you can't even seriously stockpile because your inventory is too small, ergo no one would spend money on this). I was cynical too, until I played the game and saw that it was a design decision and very likely not a business decision.
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Sep 28, 2018 12:24
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The ideal pre release games thread is people repeatedly saying "boy I sure am excited for this game" over and over again and again
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Sep 28, 2018 12:31
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MTs make me want to barf, but I'm always in awe when I see the selection of gear customization my brother has in For Honor. He hasn't spent additional money on the game, but he has access to those items with in game currency (there's some flashy stuff I think is real money only). None of it is important but it is neat to be able to choose between so many options. This wouldn't exist without MTs, but it's still enhanced the game for him in some way without him spending money on those MTs. (A whole separate question is whether the pursuit of these items and their currency can begin to overshadow the intrinsic entertainment of the base experience turning it into a (far more blatant) Skinner box. And whether or not that's "good" thing.)
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Sep 28, 2018 12:39
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Yeah, game companies methodically and scientifically exploiting our cognitive weaknesses to extract millions from schmucks with no self-control is OK, because I got a pistol skin that says 420.
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Sep 28, 2018 12:44
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Yeah even if you have enough self control, the whole model works because thousands don't. Though I don't want to tell people how to spend their money, a lot of these games, particularly mobile, rely on those with obvious spending problems (the whales).
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Sep 28, 2018 12:50
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I don't think you will solve all the problems regarding capitalism in the Fallout thread in the games forums no matter how much you post about it. poo poo sucks but there is no point in posting over and over how much you hate it and it sucks, we all agree.
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Sep 28, 2018 12:54
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TjyvTompa posted:I don't think you will solve all the problems regarding capitalism in the Fallout thread in the games forums no matter how much you post about it. poo poo sucks but there is no point in posting over and over how much you hate it and it sucks, we all agree. How about you gently caress off with your back seat modding?
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Sep 28, 2018 12:56
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, game companies methodically and scientifically exploiting our cognitive weaknesses to extract millions from schmucks with no self-control is OK, because I got a pistol skin that says 420. This mind control poo poo is way over the top. Straight up gambling is perfectly legal and most of the population somehow manages to resist enslavement so things are going to be fine. The schmucks will be fine, you'll be fine, games will be fine. There's more games now than ever before that actually have multi year post launch expansion and that's helped by finding enough silly people to buy things they don't really need.
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Sep 28, 2018 12:57
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Rinkles posted:How about you gently caress off with your back seat modding? Lol, you are loving deranged dude.
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Sep 28, 2018 13:00
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I mean what kind of thread do you want. You clearly don't want people to be negative about the game at all
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Sep 28, 2018 13:06
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Arcsquad12 posted:Find me a premium online game that costs $60-80 up front before you can even play. There's more of a gray area for freemium games but it has no place in AAA releases. i'm sorry but what even is this? almost every persistent shared-world shooter a; costs this much money and b; has mtx. this games most meaningful comparisons, Destiny and The Division, both cost 60 dollars (Destiny 2 now costs substantially more than at launch to actually 'play') and both have microtransactions. Jesus, it's all anyone loving talked about for the first year of Destiny 2. i don't like them in games but do not like act like The Evil Warlord Todd Howard is the only person to put them in AAA titles because it's quite literally miles from the truth.
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Sep 28, 2018 13:36
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Zelder posted:I mean what kind of thread do you want. You clearly don't want people to be negative about the game at all boy I sure am excited for this game
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Sep 28, 2018 13:52
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Micro-transactions are fine if they are done well. Personally, I think Overwatch's loot box/micro-transaction system is fantastic, for example. If it's just cosmetics and you can earn them from playing and completing quests and achievements then it is probably fine. The bigger problem with these AAA games has always been DLC and the idea that they're intentionally leaving bits of the game out so that they can release it later and get you to pay again (or now, buy a "Season Pass"). edit: to clarify, microtransactions are fine in my AAA game. I do hate the freemium model of phone games and I hate microtransactions in games like Candy Crush where they hook you and then force you to buy currency to continue playing. Slowpoke! fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 13:55
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Slowpoke! posted:Micro-transactions are fine if they are done well. Personally, I think Overwatch's loot box/micro-transaction system is fantastic, for example. If it's just cosmetics and you can earn them from playing and completing quests and achievements then it is probably fine. The bigger problem with these AAA games has always been DLC and the idea that they're intentionally leaving bits of the game out so that they can release it later and get you to pay again (or now, buy a "Season Pass"). Warframe is really the ultimate F2P model. They have a premium currency but you can fleece whales and get everything you could ever want by just selling poo poo you get by playing the game for free
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Sep 28, 2018 13:57
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Slowpoke! posted:Micro-transactions are fine if they are done well. Personally, I think Overwatch's loot box/micro-transaction system is fantastic, for example. If it's just cosmetics and you can earn them from playing and completing quests and achievements then it is probably fine. The bigger problem with these AAA games has always been DLC and the idea that they're intentionally leaving bits of the game out so that they can release it later and get you to pay again (or now, buy a "Season Pass"). I don't like the psychological pressure of that kind of system. Yeah cosmetics "don't matter" but you still want them. I avoid games with paid loot boxes because of the way they inevitably make me feel, and how they distract me from enjoying the core game, try as I might to not care (even though I've never actually succumbed to the temptation of gambling on this poo poo).
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Sep 28, 2018 14:01
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Honestly the actual biggest problem with the freemium model is how successful it is, to the point that a lot of companies have stopped making premium games and moved to the free-to-play model.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:03
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I am going to like the hell out of this game and do not care if it leads humanity down the path of actual societal meltdown and nuclear apocalypse.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:03
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I get to be skeptical and critical of Beth's ideas, and play the game without being hypocritical because my brother's buying the game regardless.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:07
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katkillad2 posted:It's almost like... you can play these games and never buy into the microtransactions. Weird! You can and thus it's certainly possible to ignore them but you can't ignore the design decisions that often get made due to microtransactions. In theory MTs don't need to be bad and there are cases where I'd consider them "okay" but the sad reality is that those are fewer and fewer inbetween all the games that actually build _core_ game mechanics around them in an effort to exploit a tiny number of whales that generate huge amounts of money. That might be "nice" for (some) game corporations and maybe even some players who don't care about being whales (though there are a lot of them that DO suffer) but for most players it's certainly more of a net negative than a positive and it's not going to get better the more people just go with it (that's why we ended up in this place after all). The cynic in me also says that something like modding is under huge threat from microtransactions because (good) mods are direct competition for MTs (so I guess it's no surprise that modding has so far been an afterthought for F76 and might only come with big limitations). Rinkles posted:I don't like the psychological pressure of that kind of system. Yeah cosmetics "don't matter" but you still want them. I avoid games with paid loot boxes because of the way they inevitably make me feel, and how they distract me from enjoying the core game, try as I might to not care (even though I've never actually succumbed to the temptation of gambling on this poo poo). It's also not true that "cosmetics" don't matter, I don't know why people keep saying that because it makes no sense. If they don't matter it basically means they are worthless and thus you'd have to ask yourself why they cost money in the first place. What people probably mean is that a lot of cosmetics are actually just low quality stuff and are priced so high they wouldn't pay for them and stick with the existing choices but it still creates an environment for developers with the incentive to create just enough options in the base game and then selling the rest with microtransactions instead of maybe going the extra mile and include them in the base game (and let's not kid ourselves, cosmetics are ALWAYS extremely overpriced compared to the cost of their creation especially compared with games as a whole). LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 14:13
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If the MTs are cosmetic only, I'm guessing there's a new separation of item stats and item looks. Though maybe only the premium stuff can occupy the cosmetic slot.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:17
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MTs are good because without them we wouldn't have "I spent $9,000 on candles in a video game and now my wife is divorcing me" threads in BFC.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:44
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CharlestonJew posted:boy I sure am excited for this game Me too! /Thread
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Sep 28, 2018 15:28
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LinkesAuge posted:You can and thus it's certainly possible to ignore them but you can't ignore the design decisions that often get made due to microtransactions. This is a fair point. It seems pretty hit-or-miss when it comes to this. Again, the Overwatch example is an example of a game that seems like it kept micro-transactions completely separate from its design decisions. The worst offenders are games like Candy Crush or Clash of Clans that block you from effectively playing the game by putting things behind timers that progressively get longer and longer until you feel the pressure to buy in-game currency so that you can progress. I doubt a AAA game will follow the same format. I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Sep 28, 2018 15:31
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Fallout threads. Fallout threads never changes.
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Sep 28, 2018 16:24
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Fortnite Battle Royale MT system is good. No game advantages. The quality of the actual skins and trinkets you buy is excellent*. Game pass, that give you a way to win the rewards by yourself, so you feel you played to get these rewards, not just straight paid for them. My problem with MT is that when I get a game advantage by paying real world money, I feel disgusted and like I am cheating. I have not problem paying money for free games, but if paying money make me feel bad, I would hate the game for it. Paying to reduce the grind is also another thing that kind of works, but force games to have unreasonable and unfun grinds, so people feel forced to buy the quick xp potions or other shortcuts. These are on the bad side. Loot Crates are pure evil, specially evil on games directed at childrens, where they are disgusting. On games for adults they are also disgusting because some people have gambling problems, and these schemes may have them put all the money of food/rent into the machine. Game developers that are okay with gambling are not different drug dealers that know some people lives get destroyed by drugs, but don't loving care while the money is flowing. Loot crates can be made less evil by having ways to get them with game mechanisms. Still evil, but if you close your eyes, the game can still be fun for you ignoring whatever "life destroying" effects can have to other people. ------ * When Firefall moved to Free to play, the quality of the items in the loot store was horrible. The design, and quality was bottom of the barrel bad. Thats a good way to kill your free to play game, have garbage for your item shop.
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Sep 28, 2018 16:26
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Tei posted:Fortnite Battle Royale MT system is good. This is mostly how I feel. Only microtransactions I am fine with are direct purchase cosmetics that do not give gameplay advantages. I see these as DLC.
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Sep 28, 2018 16:38
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you know the hardest thing for bethesda will be designing armor and clothes for 2 dollars that dont look like rear end
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Sep 28, 2018 16:44
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gamers are easy to figure out and I think a few things are going to work in all games - gold shader / gold weapons - aviator glasses - cowboy hat - cool dances
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Sep 28, 2018 16:52
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I can't believe there are actually people railing against a loving cosmetic cash shop, with currency that is earnable through just playing the game. And the actual "loot boxes" (the skill cards) aren't even going to be sold for real money!
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Sep 28, 2018 16:59
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Schubalts posted:I can't believe there are actually people railing against a loving cosmetic cash shop, with currency that is earnable through just playing the game. And the actual "loot boxes" (the skill cards) aren't even going to be sold for real money! We've already run out of ways to discuss how bad this game is going to be and need something to talk about though
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Sep 28, 2018 17:13
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Speaking of skill cards that whole mechanic sounds really fun. Seems like you can really experiment with over/under powered builds without too much punishment.
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Sep 28, 2018 17:27
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Schubalts posted:I can't believe there are actually people railing against a loving cosmetic cash shop, with currency that is earnable through just playing the game. And the actual "loot boxes" (the skill cards) aren't even going to be sold for real money! Well good job, because "it's just cosmetics" was addressed on the same page as your hot take ice burn. Maybe Bethsoft is better than 90% of games with cosmetic microtransaction (we don't know yet), but cash shops don't immediately turn into good things just because they're offering cosmetic items only (what's the quality of the cosmetics that are NOT "premium" and how often do new ones get added?) and even if you can earn them through regular gameplay (how grindy or expensive is the in-game way of earning them?).
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Sep 28, 2018 17:39
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Schubalts posted:I can't believe there are actually people railing against a loving cosmetic cash shop, with currency that is earnable through just playing the game. And the actual "loot boxes" (the skill cards) aren't even going to be sold for real money! Cosmetics used to just be included in games as unlockables, and they are there to instill a sense of envy to goad you in to paying real cash for them. Micro-transactions are bad.
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Sep 28, 2018 17:39
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Oh no!! My envy levels are peaking!! Shame on Bethesda!!
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Sep 28, 2018 17:44
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Yeesh, finally sat down and watched this. Kind of comes off as straight up American Propaganda, which is pretty off putting and kind of misses the entire point of the Fallout series thus far. I'm curious, what do you think is the point of the Fallout series? Because American propaganda has been a big part of the Fallout series. I guess the difference is that most people who watch the trailer won't understand that you're not supposed to be rooting for the American government. Minorkos fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 17:47
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I know you think all microtransactions are bad (lol at calling that post a hot take ice burn). I didn't say that microtransactions are super totally awesome, but they also didn't kill your puppy. I said I think it's crazy to get this up in arms over selling hats and shirts, which is the least malicious poo poo in the whole world of microtransactions, especially when cosmetics are apparently the only thing they're selling, and they can also be unlocked just by playing the drat game.
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Sep 28, 2018 17:52
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Schubalts posted:I can't believe there are actually people railing against a loving cosmetic cash shop, with currency that is earnable through just playing the game. And the actual "loot boxes" (the skill cards) aren't even going to be sold for real money! Well duh. In a post-scarcity economy the easiest way to sell people stuff is to create the need. If people have too many cosmetic options, remove all options and only provide people cool hats trough a shop. So they pay the base game + whatever it cost the hat, to not look like clows in scrapyard. A post-scarcity economy like that create a in-game have and have-nots that mirror the real world. Where rich people look cool and poor people look like trash bags. And thats not fun. We play games for escapism, not to meet again the worst of our real world in our imaginary worlds. I mean, who cares?, but is not something good for us, is bad for us.
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Sep 28, 2018 17:53
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