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Ytlaya posted:The main difference with FFXIV is that many moves also have positional or proc-based requirements that mean you can't just turn your brain off and do stuff by muscle-memory. Positionals can be muscle-memoried and most procs are something you can hit after you finish whatever you're doing immediately (Always Be C-pressing buttons after all.) Practice makes perfect but even then sometimes you have to do 'sub optimal' stuff (in SAM's case, using the heal off of Third Eye instead of Seigan) simply because of the party/content you're doing.
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Sep 30, 2018 00:35
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Jose Valasquez posted:You should never Yaten (or Gyoten for that matter) unless it means getting in an extra GCD. You should never Enpi unless you aren't in the middle of a combo and you can't get back in for a normal GCD. The badness of Enpi is it isn't building Sen This exactly. Yaten and Gyoten are handy spacing abilities, but should mostly only be used for those purposes. Gyoten might be worth tossing in for a little extra oGCD damage / Kenki use if the fight lets you stand still for a long time, but don't use Yaten to backstep unless you're trying to skin the teeth of an AoE castbar. *Absolutely* never use Enpi or Enhanced Enpi unless you're in a situation where you can't approach the target, because that means you just blew a GCD that could have been spent on a melee skill and now you have slowed down your Sen gain. e: actually don't use Gyoten for oGCD damage because it is less efficient than Shinten. Thundarr fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 01:00
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Yaten & Gyoten are for positioning only. Enhanced Enpi refunds the kenki cost of using Yaten and allows you to use Gyoten to get back into melee after backstepping out of AoE's. Gyoten's good for gap closing on adds that need to die/getting back to the boss after killing adds ASAP. That's pretty much it for those three abilities. Wait no, Enpi being on the GCD means that it'll break your combos if you have to backstep away during on of them, so don't use it until after you've gotten the Sen you were going for. And if you have enough kenki to spare you can just let it fall off, although the damage of Enhanced Enpi is worth spending a GCD on.
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Sep 30, 2018 01:15
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EponymousMrYar posted:Positionals can be muscle-memoried and most procs are something you can hit after you finish whatever you're doing immediately (Always Be C-pressing buttons after all.) Practice makes perfect but even then sometimes you have to do 'sub optimal' stuff (in SAM's case, using the heal off of Third Eye instead of Seigan) simply because of the party/content you're doing. I was playing my Ninja today, and it feels more manageable in the sense that I feel like sub-optimal things don't harm my DPS as much (though my Ninja isn't at the point where it gets Ninki or whatever its gauge is, since it's only 54). It's nice that I can do so many important things with just the set of 4 jutsu buttons, and my AoE is just a single button instead of 3 like with Samurai. I also do mostly fine on my SMN/DRK/SCH, so I think that the large number of buttons for SAM and the complex proc/DoT management with BRD just make me poorly suited to those jobs. I'll probably mostly stick to DRK/SMN/SCH once I hit 70; I'm only really doing a melee DPS because it seems more suited to the Stormblood MSQ content, lol.
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Sep 30, 2018 04:54
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Ytlaya posted:The main difference with FFXIV is that many moves also have positional or proc-based requirements that mean you can't just turn your brain off and do stuff by muscle-memory. You have to constantly check whether various things are active and mentally do an algorithm to select what the optimal thing is at that time. I used to play a DPS monk during Mists of Pandaria in WoW, and I actually got near the top of DPS lists in that because you really could rely almost entirely on muscle memory, but in this there's too many things that require active consideration. I'm just returned to the game, so don't take this as expert advice or anything. But I spent a lot of time lately adjusting my ui to make it easier to keep most important information close together and having more open screen state. I feel like it already made a huge difference and I'm already playing the game way better than I ever did in the 800+ hours that I have played before.
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Sep 30, 2018 05:32
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Ytlaya posted:I was playing my Ninja today, and it feels more manageable in the sense that I feel like sub-optimal things don't harm my DPS as much (though my Ninja isn't at the point where it gets Ninki or whatever its gauge is, since it's only 54). It's nice that I can do so many important things with just the set of 4 jutsu buttons, and my AoE is just a single button instead of 3 like with Samurai. I also do mostly fine on my SMN/DRK/SCH, so I think that the large number of buttons for SAM and the complex proc/DoT management with BRD just make me poorly suited to those jobs. You are gonna hate late ninja then if you thought sam was a busy class. Ninja is faster and has more buttons. So here's a quick breakdown. At 54 ninja is in a nice place because you just got Armor Crush. Use that whenever you hit 40 seconds or less on Huton. In boss fights, your goal should be to keep your dot rolling at all times, as well as landing trick attack whenever that's up. Trick attack is used in combat by using the suiton jutsu. As for ninja's aoe, you should be doing way more than one button. Basic ninja aoe is to use katon, the fireball, hit the kassatsu ability, use doton, then spam death blossom.
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Sep 30, 2018 05:34
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Ytlaya posted:I was playing my Ninja today, and it feels more manageable in the sense that I feel like sub-optimal things don't harm my DPS as much (though my Ninja isn't at the point where it gets Ninki or whatever its gauge is, since it's only 54). It's nice that I can do so many important things with just the set of 4 jutsu buttons, and my AoE is just a single button instead of 3 like with Samurai. I also do mostly fine on my SMN/DRK/SCH, so I think that the large number of buttons for SAM and the complex proc/DoT management with BRD just make me poorly suited to those jobs. Actually your ninja aoe is a katon and then a kassatsu doton with a hellfire frog whenever it's up and making sure you're constantly in melee range of something you're targeting because that's how you build ninki. Also you need to keep mug on cooldown because you need the ninki for more frogs and throw out a katon when ninjutsu is up while keeping up huton with the occasional armor crush. Underneath all of that is the death blossom spam. Once you get tenchijin it gets more complicated again, because you essentially have a second reset on your ninjutsu and have a different mudra chain to use for aoe with it than single target, but that'll be at 70. The good news is it's not as hard as it looks. Your rotation is an entirely memorizable chain of skills that will take care of buff and debuff timings pretty much on its own if you do it right. Get on a dummy for a few minutes and learn an opener, spend some time getting the rotation in your fingers and it takes care of itself. It helps that the only positionals ninja has are armor crush, aeolian edge, and trick attack, and of those only armor crush is from the side, the others are behind. Monk is where getting positionals into muscle memory is mandatory, but even then I'd argue monk is one of the simplest rotations in the game and all of the skill comes in how you deal with disconnects and knowing when to drop a tornado kick or extend your GL3 with riddle of earth. The actual positional part of it becomes so rote you'll start just doing it automatically. Also if you haven't tried it yet, you might really like red mage. It's one of the most intuitive classes in the game, and it's strong enough to do any content. Its damage cap is a bit lower than the other casters(and by that I mean like within 1-2%), but a good RDM is amazing in most content just because of the ability to res people without swiftcast. We've killed pretty much everything up to O9S, and probably O10S on monday, with a red mage in my static. Also it's extra funny when the red mage decides to flush themself down Suzaku's toilet with a flourish or flips right off the edge on pretty much any savage fight.
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Sep 30, 2018 05:47
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Also if you haven't tried it yet, you might really like red mage. It's one of the most intuitive classes in the game, and it's strong enough to do any content. Its damage cap is a bit lower than the other casters(and by that I mean like within 1-2%), but a good RDM is amazing in most content just because of the ability to res people without swiftcast. We've killed pretty much everything up to O9S, and probably O10S on monday, with a red mage in my static. Also it's extra funny when the red mage decides to flush themself down Suzaku's toilet with a flourish or flips right off the edge on pretty much any savage fight. Note: using the RDM backstep during the TV phase in 011 sends you flying back just a liiiitle bit too far. And yeah, red mages may not be ideal for statics since they have a lower maximum damage output than summoners, but they're still able to do any content and can be handy for prog thanks to Verraise.
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Sep 30, 2018 06:12
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Brainamp posted:You are gonna hate late ninja then if you thought sam was a busy class. Ninja is faster and has more buttons. Oh, I wasn't counting katon/doton when I mentioned 1 button, since those are jutsus and don't require actual additional button slots. I actually don't have much trouble managing the jutsu stuff so far; the attack speed buff stays up a long time, and jutsu only refreshes so often to begin with so it's not that hard to figure out what's optimal to use at any given time (largely because I have a while between needing to use it, so I have enough time to mentally check various things). Is Doton worth using against bosses? The one thing I've been unsure about is whether to prioritize that or Raiton when I already have my speed buff and the thing that lets me use trick attack isn't up (Suiton I think?). edit: Seems like they have the same total potency? edit2: Btw what's up with this gently caress-off tall stone tower that looks like it literally goes into outer space (in the water/islands zone)?
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Sep 30, 2018 06:28
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PotD v2.
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Sep 30, 2018 06:46
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Ytlaya posted:Oh, I wasn't counting katon/doton when I mentioned 1 button, since those are jutsus and don't require actual additional button slots. I actually don't have much trouble managing the jutsu stuff so far; the attack speed buff stays up a long time, and jutsu only refreshes so often to begin with so it's not that hard to figure out what's optimal to use at any given time (largely because I have a while between needing to use it, so I have enough time to mentally check various things). If you're in melee range of a single target, use fuma. Raiton clips into your gcd and slows your entire rotation down. If you're at range or your teleport is on cooldown and you really need it up for some reason, use raiton. Don't use doton on a single target unless you can cast it before the fight and hide to get your ninjutsu back.
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Sep 30, 2018 06:55
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You'll enjoy the simplicity of NIN until you hit 70. Ten Chi Jin is like finding a hair at the end of your meal. And the hair didn't come from someone's head.
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Sep 30, 2018 08:08
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Sharkopath posted:Big Machinist Fan here. Fun simple job with cool gear and animations. I leveled MCH to 70 and made it my main DPS job exclusively because of The Hat. And because I'm not a fan of BRD. Would be neat if BLU uses ranged DPS gear so I can keep my hat legacy going.
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Sep 30, 2018 08:32
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I'm a little bemused that, the week that I dig out my patented Dangerously Basic glamour set, Masked Rose has this for the Fashion Report. Like seriously, it's my winter glamour except with slightly different glasses and mom jeans in place of the leggings. Easiest 100/100 of my life though!   i mean, Elezen pull off the mom look pretty well.  LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Also if you haven't tried it yet, you might really like red mage. It's one of the most intuitive classes in the game, and it's strong enough to do any content. Its damage cap is a bit lower than the other casters(and by that I mean like within 1-2%), but a good RDM is amazing in most content just because of the ability to res people without swiftcast. We've killed pretty much everything up to O9S, and probably O10S on monday, with a red mage in my static. Also it's extra funny when the red mage decides to flush themself down Suzaku's toilet with a flourish or flips right off the edge on pretty much any savage fight. Seconding Red Mage, which is in fact cool and good. It's a really intuitive and stylish job with an amazing toolkit for solo content, starts at level 50, and is workable even at very low level syncs. Seriously, having a useful AOE in Sastasha or whatever is a goddamn revelation. Verraise is an amazing tool for both marginal Duty Finder groups and for learning Savage, since (MP permitting) you can throw out an instacast revive every 5-6 seconds. The closest job to compare it to is Summoner. They play quite differently, but they both fill the same niche of a burst-phase caster with decent mobility. SMN definitely does more damage (about 6-8% more according to FF Logs), and I'd make the case that it's more mobile than RDM because a Summoner can drop back to Ruin II spam on the run, while a Red Mage will have to stop and hardcast every second spell to get Dualcast up. On the other hand, RDM is a lot easier to learn, since SMN has a lot of idiosyncrasies and is heavily penalized for dying. And I really can't overstate how good Verraise is for snatching victory from the jaws of defeat in normal content, or for letting your party see more of a fight in Savage. SMN has a raise as well, but it's a lot more limited because it's mostly tied to Swiftcast being up.  did i mention  that it has  goddamn style? Solo Wing Pixy fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 09:14
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RDM skills/spells are also very frontloaded, their dps is actually crazy good at lower levels so lldr is relatively painless. It's also great for hunts since it has a raise and emergency heal. It deals with high ping (400ms for me) pretty well too since you don't have to worry too much about dropping combos, can position more comfortably than melee, and doesn't have a buttload of ogcds.
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Sep 30, 2018 11:29
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Thundarr posted:Note: using the RDM backstep during the TV phase in 011 sends you flying back just a liiiitle bit too far. And with O9, also Suzaku. This patch has a very anti red mage sentiment, had to drill it in my head to not use displace.
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Sep 30, 2018 11:35
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Algid posted:RDM skills/spells are also very frontloaded, their dps is actually crazy good at lower levels so lldr is relatively painless. It's also great for hunts since it has a raise and emergency heal. It deals with high ping (400ms for me) pretty well too since you don't have to worry too much about dropping combos, can position more comfortably than melee, and doesn't have a buttload of ogcds. Man, and I thought I had it had with 250ms. I have found that if I press my long casts too quickly after my short casts dualcast doesn't kick in properly and I start hard casting. It's not too much of an issue thanks to just being able to cancel it, but it's still annoying.
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Sep 30, 2018 12:00
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Ibblebibble posted:Man, and I thought I had it had with 250ms. I have found that if I press my long casts too quickly after my short casts dualcast doesn't kick in properly and I start hard casting. It's not too much of an issue thanks to just being able to cancel it, but it's still annoying. Also the dualcast thing happens a lot for me too, it's still much better than breaking 3 or 4 part combos.
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Sep 30, 2018 12:57
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Thundarr posted:Note: using the RDM backstep during the TV phase in 011 sends you flying back just a liiiitle bit too far. I learned this one the hard way. And was then reminded of this one the hard way because Displacement after Enchanted Redoublement is such a part of my own habits on this class. I also was just sliiiightly too close to the edge once in O12 and sort of stumbled off the side. The healer gave me a "lol" and I admitted I was dumb. I think I got a pity commendation for that. There was also the time I had enough mana to open a boss fight with the melee combo, and displaced out of the arena just as the barrier went up. So now I angle myself slightly to the side. Red Mage is good. Having all the role actions also makes me feel more classically Red Magey because I can have things like Erase and Apocatastasis on my bar. I don't use Break or Drain much but they're there, I guess. Drain and Break do trigger Dualcast, btw. HackensackBackpack fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 14:13
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We need harder 4 person content
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Sep 30, 2018 16:12
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Flicking between Summoner and Scholar is making my leveling experience an absolute joy. Wish the class role was dictated by a summon, though - pop out a fairy I'm a healer, pop out the unfathomable rage of an eternal fire spirit, and my DPS comes calling.
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Sep 30, 2018 16:19
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oh no blimp issue posted:We need harder 4 person content Yeah. I saw a pretty convincing argument for why a mythic+ direct analogue wouldn't work well in ffxiv, but more hard small group content is ideal. Though ffxiv's biggest flaw really is just a lack of endgame stuff in general, mostly for believable but still annoying reasons like "the design talent simply doesn't exist in large numbers in Japan".
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Sep 30, 2018 16:20
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So after playing for about 8 hours yesterday, I had a couple of quick questions: 1. I started leveling MIN, got to 21, and was shocked that I don’t hate it like I do crafting. Does it become significantly different later on? 2. While running Labyrinth of the Ancients for WT as WHM, I was curious if I was doing the rotation correctly. Spamming holy as much as possible is still the best use of my time, right? With maybe an occasional Renew if I feel generous? Ok so that’s not really a question but Holy is great.
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Sep 30, 2018 16:27
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oh no blimp issue posted:We need harder 4 person content Have you seen how bad people are at the last boss of The Burn?
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Sep 30, 2018 16:29
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A Real Horse posted:While running Labyrinth of the Ancients for WT as WHM, I was curious if I was doing the rotation correctly. Spamming holy as much as possible is still the best use of my time, right? With maybe an occasional Renew if I feel generous? Definitely the best use of your time, unless there's only 2 mobs alive.  Let the fairy heal. (make sure you've got a SCH)
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Sep 30, 2018 16:31
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Die Sexmonster! posted:Definitely the best use of your time, unless there's only 2 mobs alive. It was great. I did have a SCH, who was about 50/50 on DPS/heals. Our Alliance tore through everything.
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Sep 30, 2018 16:39
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Man y'all are the ones making mobs stun immune and forcing me run out of AoEs on trash that I should be able to interrupt. 
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Sep 30, 2018 16:43
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I regret nothing.
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Sep 30, 2018 16:49
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oh no blimp issue posted:We need harder 4 person content But Rathalos is a good example to why that doesnt work outside of gimmicks.
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Sep 30, 2018 17:00
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Zwingley posted:Man y'all are the ones making mobs stun immune and forcing me run out of AoEs on trash that I should be able to interrupt. Don't need to run for long if everything is dead.
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Sep 30, 2018 17:06
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I don't mind if they want to make more difficult 4 man stuff so long as it's not in the MSQ or part of EXDR. Rathalos is fine, because I can ignore it. The Burn sucks because I have a 50/50 chance of a 50 minute dungeon run.
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Sep 30, 2018 17:09
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:But Rathalos is a good example to why that doesnt work outside of gimmicks. Rathalos is a gimmick? I don’t see why harder 4 person trials or dungeons wouldn’t work? A scaling system would be cool, being able to take any number between 4 and 8 into a trail would be great.
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Sep 30, 2018 17:14
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I'm in, boys, I did it.  For the Honeymoon, we cheesed the Sightseeing Log, killed Hunts, and then did maps. 
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Sep 30, 2018 17:15
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“Hard light party content” was a big part of why launch Cataclysm endgame was terrible. On the surface I get the idea but drat if I haven’t been burned by that before.
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Sep 30, 2018 17:15
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WrightOfWay posted:Have you seen how bad people are at the last boss of The Burn? Alakaiser posted:“Hard light party content” was a big part of why launch Cataclysm endgame was terrible. On the surface I get the idea but drat if I haven’t been burned by that before. HOOLY BOOLY posted:But Rathalos is a good example to why that doesnt work outside of gimmicks. It is possible to have easy and hard content in the same game, Trial roulette did not become impossible when Bahamut/UWU was added. Keep EXDR the same difficulty it's always been, and add some kind of non-matchmaking Savage difficulty dungeon. If they added any sort of scaling difficulty, that would be even better (I don't think copying Mythic+ exactly would work, but they could probably do something vaguely similar).
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Sep 30, 2018 17:24
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What would be the argument against a WoW-esque mythic+ system? I guess locking gear/rewards behind it, since there's no real random loot in 14... But hopefully that wouldn't be the case. Competing for best performances was pretty neat.
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Sep 30, 2018 17:26
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Mango Polo posted:What would be the argument against a WoW-esque mythic+ system? I guess locking gear/rewards behind it, since there's no real random loot in 14... But hopefully that wouldn't be the case. Yeah but that's not why people do/did Mythic+. They did it for the mythic cache at the end of the week or to pull a loving slot machine lever and hope something titanforges that they can use, and artifact power. Also  gently caress Pagos  gently caress this stupid stubby piece of poo poo lance. And gently caress me for doing that poo poo in the first place
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Sep 30, 2018 17:36
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oh no blimp issue posted:Rathalos is a gimmick? A 4 man crossover trial where they take away healing in the back half and there's an auto-fail condition attached to number of deaths?
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Sep 30, 2018 17:42
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SonicRulez posted:A 4 man crossover trial where they take away healing in the back half and there's an auto-fail condition attached to number of deaths? I have to admit I'm not sure what makes that a gimmick and not almost every other major fight. Is it a gimmick that Omega 4 doesn't let you attack a certain enemy? Is it a gimmick that most fights have a hard time limit, or a gimmick that you have to run into portals or a gimmick that you have to stop and play DDR or... well you get the idea. The death limit in particular doesn't bother me because most fights have a soft death limit anyway because enough screwups mean you can't succeed and a 4-man content should obviously be tuned lower than 8-man.
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Sep 30, 2018 17:56
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ImpAtom posted:I have to admit I'm not sure what makes that a gimmick and not almost every other major fight. Is it a gimmick that Omega 4 doesn't let you attack a certain enemy? Is it a gimmick that most fights have a hard time limit, or a gimmick that you have to run into portals or a gimmick that you have to stop and play DDR or... well you get the idea.
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Sep 30, 2018 18:04
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