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Darth Walrus posted:Dubai airport is presumably also a major supply hub for the coalition. They may calculate that disrupting that is more valuable than trying to play nice with people who are already trying to exterminate them. I mean, the Houthi banner should probably have been a bit of a clue that PR is not something they have ever had the slightest interest in. Wow, after seeing what the Houthi banner is I'm now not so sure that peace is their objective.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:11
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Coldwar timewarp posted:Unfair of course. The Houthi are not in a "war of extermination", the SA coalition campaign goal has never been to invade northern Yemen, it was basically to put a "friendly" (puppet or at least predictable) government in place after the collapse of the previous government and that was likewise the Houthi original goal as well.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:22
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TheNakedFantastic posted:The Houthi are not in a "war of extermination", the SA coalition campaign goal has never been to invade northern Yemen, it was basically to put a "friendly" (puppet or at least predictable) government in place after the collapse of the previous government and that was likewise the Houthi original goal as well. I considered making this same point. The KSA/UAE invasion has been terrible, but it is not a war of extermination or genocide.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:26
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I'm sure the millions of people starving to death in Yemen are greatly comforted by Saudi Arabia's less nefarious motives. Don't worry guys, a lot of them will survive and just have permanent crippling health problems and growth stunting for the rest of their lives instead.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:38
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Sergg posted:I'm sure the millions of people starving to death in Yemen are greatly comforted by Saudi Arabia's less nefarious motives. I'm sure they're not. But the words "exterminate" and "genocide" don't just mean killing lots of people.
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Sep 30, 2018 20:40
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Count Roland posted:I considered making this same point. The KSA/UAE invasion has been terrible, but it is not a war of extermination or genocide. Please explain this logic
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Sep 30, 2018 21:25
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What is genocide Discussion itt Like jesus christ was holodomor genocide or just a simple killoff? Why is this stupidity being argued, starving a population may not be racially motivated but its a loving genocide
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Sep 30, 2018 22:21
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Count Roland posted:I considered making this same point. The KSA/UAE invasion has been terrible, but it is not a war of extermination or genocide. Uhhh... Bandar Bush might disagree: quote:Prince Bandar bin Sultan, once the powerful Saudi ambassador in Washington and head of Saudi intelligence until a few months ago, had a revealing and ominous conversation with the head of the British Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove. Prince Bandar told him: "The time is not far off in the Middle East, Richard, when it will be literally 'God help the Shia'. More than a billion Sunnis have simply had enough of them."
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Sep 30, 2018 22:21
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Hmm... Is it really a genocide, or just a regular campaign of intentional murder directed at the civilian population of Yemen? This is a topic we must resolve through rational debate, as without I wouldn't be able to continue not caring about my governments pivotal role in enabling the very intentional and strategically planned destruction of Yemen as a country. And murdering all the Shia.
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Sep 30, 2018 22:34
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A 'war of extermination' justifies almost any action in return; when you call it that, that's the ground you're standing on. Metaphorically. So yes. It's important to be cautious with words like genocide, even leaving aside the dilution of the word is a problem. Unless people need remedial run-throughs of the boy who cried wolf. (Targeting civilians does not implicitly make something a war of extermination, however barbaric the act.)
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Sep 30, 2018 22:59
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what the gently caress did I just read
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Sep 30, 2018 23:05
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Could you perhaps metaphorically make a post that's not full of weasel words and nothing?
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Sep 30, 2018 23:07
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If two sides A and B are at war with each other, and both are committing war crimes against each other, but we, as group C, are only powerful enough to stop group B from committing war crimes, should we go ahead and stop group B from committing war crimes, even if doing so would enable group A to commit even more war crimes against group B?
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Sep 30, 2018 23:18
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LeoMarr posted:Like jesus christ was holodomor genocide or just a simple killoff? It's actually nazi propaganda
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Oct 1, 2018 09:52
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Volkerball posted:I don't think the American government is cynical and evil. I think the American people are. 
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Oct 1, 2018 18:06
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Americans ain't got nothin' on Europe when it comes to cynicism imo.
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Oct 1, 2018 18:27
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it is not the american government that Volkerball has sworn his allegience to that is evil and stupid. his friends died for good reasons, like all those loving iraqis, yemenis, and libyans. noble reasons. for noble men. noble purpose. to question the goodness and intelligence of the people who ordered their deaths is to question those deaths, and he will not suffer your filthy attempts to sully their memory with statements like "they died for nothing." no, clearly the fault for their deaths lies in those worthless civilian scum, who will never understand the glorious purity of getting turned into chunky salsa by an IED because Paul Wolfowitz thought "sunni" was a way to cook an egg and who persist in spitting on the graves of those men by saying "maybe doing more of that would be a bad idea"
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Oct 1, 2018 21:01
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Count Roland posted:I considered making this same point. The KSA/UAE invasion has been terrible, but it is not a war of extermination or genocide. The "friendly" puppet government sponsored by the KSA led a campaign of cultural genocide against North Yemeni Shiites. They were controlled by a Saudi political party with links to hostile Sunni militias and an agenda of eradicating the cultural specificity of the Northern people. It is very much a war for the survival of a whole ethnic community.
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Oct 1, 2018 23:06
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Count Roland posted:I considered making this same point. The KSA/UAE invasion has been terrible, but it is not a war of extermination or genocide. I dunno, the areas being starved out are almost all Zaidi, and the Zaidi areas are all being starved out, correct? I’ve seen an enormous number of pro-rebel people very angrily using the word genocide to refer to Assad’s war, when the evidence for such an intent, without downplaying the extent of Sunni Arab suffering, is much less than in Yemen The fact that we’re at the point now of weasel-words dimunition of genocide tells you how much of a loving joke the Western humanitarian language always was
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Oct 2, 2018 04:25
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icantfindaname posted:I dunno, the areas being starved out are almost all Zaidi, and the Zaidi areas are all being starved out, correct? Are there areas in Yemen that are under Houthi control, but with a majority non-Houthi civilian population, that are specifically being allowed to receive adequate supplies of food by KSA? If there are, then the case for the KSA campaign being genocidal is much stronger.
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Oct 2, 2018 04:36
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wow you're literally doing a holodomor splitting hairs argument. they're killing everyone, so it cant be genocide!!!!!!!!
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Oct 2, 2018 05:27
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icantfindaname posted:I dunno, the areas being starved out are almost all Zaidi, and the Zaidi areas are all being starved out, correct? Regardless of how you define genocide, do you really think TheDeadlyShoe is trying to diminish the crimes of the Gulf coalition? What position do you and Kurnugia think TheDeadlyShoe and others are arguing? I doubt anyone who posts in this thread regularly has anything but loathing for the Saudi campaign. Its disgusting and indefensible from both a humanitarian and strategic perspective, and I honestly cant recall anyone ever coming close to defending it itt. What the gently caress is the point of this kind of holier-than-thou posturing? Regardless of how exactly we're going to define genocide its worthwhile discussing exactly what is happening in Yemen. We can't trust official statements or reporting on the ground, so it takes a lot of discussion and some speculation to understand what is going on. This is why people want to ask questions like does Saudi strategy in Yemen meet the technical definition of genocide outlined in the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide? Its bizarre seeing how eager some people are to set off the circular firing squad. qkkl posted:Are there areas in Yemen that are under Houthi control, but with a majority non-Houthi civilian population, that are specifically being allowed to receive adequate supplies of food by KSA? If there are, then the case for the KSA campaign being genocidal is much stronger. uh dude you sound seriously confused about who the Houthi are. The Houthi are single aristocratic family, there really are no "Houthi' or "non-Houthi" civilians, this is not a meaningful distinction. Perhaps you are considering the difference between Zaidi and Sunni areas? In any case the answer is no, even Sunni areas under coalition control are suffering severe food shortages and wide spread malnutrition. It's not quite as bad as the north but from an objective standpoint its still awful. steinrokkan posted:The "friendly" puppet government sponsored by the KSA led a campaign of cultural genocide against North Yemeni Shiites. They were controlled by a Saudi political party with links to hostile Sunni militias and an agenda of eradicating the cultural specificity of the Northern people. It is very much a war for the survival of a whole ethnic community. I'm not sure but are you talking about before the Houthi seizure of San'aa? It doesn't sound like you mean during the current civil war. That would be a really surprising statement if true and new to me, could you share your source? It's surprising because Ali Saleh was in fact a Zaidi northerner who crushed a southern rebellion after the union of north and south Yemen, neither of which has a distinct ethnicity from the other despite the religious differences, which are not nearly as significant as many people believe. Perhaps by the "cultural specificity of the Northern people," you mean the tribal affinal political system which remains stronger in the rural north than in towns like Aden and San'aa? Because while I think he'd have LIKED to have destroyed it, I don't think he ever came particularly close and regularly relied on it to support his own agenda. If you mean something Hadi did I'd like to hear it, as far as I know he was almost completely ineffectual before his overthrow so he wasn't threatening anyone.
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Oct 2, 2018 05:49
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Squalid posted:uh dude you sound seriously confused about who the Houthi are. The Houthi are single aristocratic family, there really are no "Houthi' or "non-Houthi" civilians, this is not a meaningful distinction. Perhaps you are considering the difference between Zaidi and Sunni areas? In any case the answer is no, even Sunni areas under coalition control are suffering severe food shortages and wide spread malnutrition. It's not quite as bad as the north but from an objective standpoint its still awful. That is very strange, wouldn't KSA want to provide plenty of food to Sunni areas in Yemen that they control, so that the civilians in that area would see the Saudis in a good light? I thought the goal of KSA was to have Yemen be a pro-KSA state, which would be hard to accomplish if all the Yemenis hate them because they starved them for no reason. Maybe their ultimate goal is to annex Yemen.
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Oct 2, 2018 06:05
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A big flaming stink posted:wow you're literally doing a holodomor splitting hairs argument. leomarr is not "we", and it's best to just ignore off-topic bait
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Oct 2, 2018 06:31
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qkkl posted:That is very strange, wouldn't KSA want to provide plenty of food to Sunni areas in Yemen that they control, so that the civilians in that area would see the Saudis in a good light? I thought the goal of KSA was to have Yemen be a pro-KSA state, which would be hard to accomplish if all the Yemenis hate them because they starved them for no reason. Maybe their ultimate goal is to annex Yemen. You also wouldn't think they'd be collaborating with al Qaeda given their whole desire to overthrow the Saudi Monarchy, and yet here we are. There's a lot of unanswered questions regarding coalition strategy.
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Oct 2, 2018 06:35
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A big flaming stink posted:wow you're literally doing a holodomor splitting hairs argument. The point was that holodmor was a genocide evrn if not entirely racially motivated.
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Oct 2, 2018 06:41
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Squalid posted:Regardless of how you define genocide, do you really think TheDeadlyShoe is trying to diminish the crimes of the Gulf coalition? What position do you and Kurnugia think TheDeadlyShoe and others are arguing? Yes, I was talking about the status quo before the fall of Sanaa. The government was insanely influenced by Sunni political parties with a goal of destroying the Zaidi community and receiving funding from the Saudis, and while Saleh may not have been personally invested in that goal, he did little to prevent the relevant actors from working towards the goal, and enjoyed the patronage that came with not getting in the Saudi's way. the increasing penetration of N Yemen by Saudi trained clerics and religious institutions in a coordinated campaign + empowering of militias by Saleh that were hostile to Zaidis were two of the triggers to escalating the conflict. I can add more detail later today.
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Oct 2, 2018 10:08
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LeoMarr posted:The point was that holodmor was an invention of nazi propaganda
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Oct 2, 2018 12:00
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Take Holocaust denial somewhere else.
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Oct 2, 2018 12:13
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steinrokkan posted:Take Holocaust denial somewhere else. The holocaust is real and the holodomor is a nazi attempt to smoke screen their own genocide (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 2, 2018 12:32
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420 Gank Mid posted:The holocaust is real and the holodomor is a nazi attempt to smoke screen their own genocide No.
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Oct 2, 2018 12:50
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What is this the Stepan Bandera fan club thread all of a sudden?
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Oct 2, 2018 13:07
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It's weird but genocides aren't actually mutually exclusive.
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Oct 2, 2018 13:09
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420 Gank Mid posted:The holocaust is real and the holodomor is a nazi attempt to smoke screen their own genocide Are you going to say the Katyn Massacre was made up by the Nazis too? Even Russia admits that the Holodomor happenened and that the Soviet government bore responsibility, though they say it wasn't genocide. Here's an international statement they signed on to under Putin: In the former Soviet Union millions of men, women and children fell victims to the cruel actions and policies of the totalitarian regime. The Great Famine of 1932–1933 in Ukraine (Holodomor), took from 7 million to 10 million innocent lives and became a national tragedy for the Ukrainian people. In this regard, we note activities in observance of the seventieth anniversary of this Famine, in particular organized by the Government of Ukraine.
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Oct 2, 2018 13:12
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BattleMaster posted:It's weird but genocides aren't actually mutually exclusive. Yeah but there's plenty of real genocides that are also relevant to this thread you dont have to go digging for nazi and anti-communist historical revisionism to talk about them Like the Genocide the USA and its allies are overseeing in Yemen right now http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-anglo-american-media-complicity-in-yemens-genocide/
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Oct 2, 2018 13:17
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420 Gank Mid posted:Yeah but there's plenty of real genocides that are also relevant to this thread you dont have to go digging for nazi and anti-communist historical revisionism to talk about them The holodomor is not revisionism
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Oct 2, 2018 14:09
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420 Gank Mid posted:Yeah but there's plenty of real genocides that are also relevant to this thread you dont have to go digging for nazi and anti-communist historical revisionism to talk about them Sorry friend but Stalin actively killed and/or otherwise destroyed the communities of plenty of ethnic minorities
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Oct 2, 2018 14:29
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1047082516627304454 They also raided a Shia Islamic center in connection with this.
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Oct 2, 2018 15:09
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Squalid posted:What position do you and Kurnugia think TheDeadlyShoe and others are arguing? A position incredibly retarded and irrelevant. Americans and Saudis are intentionally starving and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people without a worry. Whether that fills some diarrhea soaked definition of genocide thedeadlywonk pulled out of his loving rear end in a top hat is entirely irrelevant to anything that is happening, and discussing is indeed an attempt to diminish the crimes being committed by your government. Eppur si muove and gently caress you. Perhaps in the future I will just tell people who run with this argument to go gently caress a paper shredder instead of even bothering to mock them.
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Oct 2, 2018 15:59
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Meanwhile, journalists went to investigate Netanyahu's "secret Iranian nuclear bomb factory", and they found out that it was actually a near-bankrupt carpet washing workshop. https://www.euronews.com/2018/09/30/secret-atomic-warehouse-the-mystery-building-at-the-centre-of-israeli-pm-s-claim This way we learns that the security measures used to protect the nuclear carpet warehouse consist of a few cameras and one (1) guard who throws stones at cameramen.
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Oct 2, 2018 16:03
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