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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The context was the game's quality on release. EU4 was a pretty incredible step up even from EU3 + expansions. And the current state of EU4 comes a few years after Johan stepped down from the lead designer role, so if you're one of those people who think EU4 is worse than ever currently, then slagging on the guy who was in charge of the game's design before its supposed downslide is extra weird. You didn't quote me when responding to me, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were using some kind of general "you". I haven't been said anything about johan, just that the victoria series was better than eu4 when it was released. Which it was, and I disagree with your reading of that guy's post. Maybe he can clarify or maybe yall can stop getting weird about my tongue-in-cheek vicky fanboying
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Oct 2, 2018 21:33
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I only enjoyed EU4 on release. BY the time the first expansion came out, I'd stopped playing mostly.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:02
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The Total War games definitely have gotten grander with time
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Oct 3, 2018 04:26
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Senor Dog posted:Vicky, Ricky, and Vicky 2 Guess who was lead for them? i designed and coded the pops and politics system in v2 while Chris designed the economy and worldmarket.
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Oct 3, 2018 05:32
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I liked the idea of civil wars being game over, but I don't understand not being able to choose sides at the beginning. If you can't change sides, how are you able to change governments? Can't think of many peaceful transitions from one type of government to the other.
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Oct 3, 2018 10:40
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pdxjohan posted:Guess who was lead for them? Well,the pops at least made some sense, as long as they had bread and circus they were happy. The world market was madness.
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Oct 3, 2018 11:59
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the v2 market is mad genius, except for the resource duplication part
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Oct 3, 2018 12:35
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Or the alchemy
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Oct 3, 2018 12:38
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Did Johan just out himself for being the father of all Anarcho-Liberals 
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Oct 3, 2018 13:32
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pdxjohan posted:Guess who was lead for them? And you did a good job. I wasn’t the one insulting you. In fact I even called that person stupid. Also I have over 2k hours in EU4 so I clearly do not think it’s bad or whatever as I was being accused of.
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Oct 3, 2018 14:17
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Groogy posted:Or the alchemy Alchemy is like 90% of the economy
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Oct 3, 2018 14:20
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I just like the fact that Artisans can convert Cattle into Steel.
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Oct 3, 2018 14:32
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Full Metal Alchemist paradox game when?
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Oct 3, 2018 14:52
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Groogy posted:I just like the fact that Artisans can convert Cattle into Steel. Depending on the ratio, one could just laughably say Hemoglobin -> Iron -> Steel.
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Oct 3, 2018 15:07
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I think you mean Beefcake -> Buns of Steel
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Oct 3, 2018 15:12
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Cynic Jester posted:I think you mean Beefcake -> Buns of Steel That's Artisan Armor.
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Oct 3, 2018 15:25
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Groogy posted:I just like the fact that Artisans can convert Cattle into Steel. Your herd of cows erodes the topsoil so that you can hand-pick the hematite rocks underneath and artisanally cook them into steel
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Oct 3, 2018 15:53
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The context was the game's quality on release. EU4 was a pretty incredible step up even from EU3 + expansions. And the current state of EU4 comes a few years after Johan stepped down from the lead designer role, so if you're one of those people who think EU4 is worse than ever currently, then slagging on the guy who was in charge of the game's design before its supposed downslide is extra weird.
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Oct 3, 2018 16:48
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My controversial opinion: EU4 is better now than it's ever been and the DLC model works very well most of the time, even if it's not always executed perfectly.
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Oct 3, 2018 17:01
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Magissima posted:My controversial opinion: EU4 is better now than it's ever been and the DLC model works very well most of the time, even if it's not always executed perfectly. 
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Oct 3, 2018 17:25
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I've owned EU4 for a long time, but never really took the time to learn it until fairly recently. I love the game, but have no real frame of reference on what it used to be like. What are people's problems with the game and the DLC model? I know it's not perfect and there are definitely some things that annoy me, but I also don't know of any other game that comes close to what it's trying to do.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:04
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siggy2021 posted:I've owned EU4 for a long time, but never really took the time to learn it until fairly recently. I love the game, but have no real frame of reference on what it used to be like. What are people's problems with the game and the DLC model? I know it's not perfect and there are definitely some things that annoy me, but I also don't know of any other game that comes close to what it's trying to do. Realistically, the game could integrate it's additions better if the base game just integrated the older DLC over time instead of it always being a separate purchase.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:17
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siggy2021 posted:I've owned EU4 for a long time, but never really took the time to learn it until fairly recently. I love the game, but have no real frame of reference on what it used to be like. What are people's problems with the game and the DLC model? I know it's not perfect and there are definitely some things that annoy me, but I also don't know of any other game that comes close to what it's trying to do. The big issue is the number of game systems and currencies ballooning, with many of them having poor to no interaction with other systems, often being little more than numbers going up independent of what is going on in the game. Innovativeness for instance just happens, with minimal input from the player and little effect on the gameplay.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:18
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Really, this video by our old boy has several good points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJCE6GHAI9I Posting this made me realize he hasn't made anything in a long time, wonder what happened?
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Oct 3, 2018 18:41
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Magissima posted:My controversial opinion: EU4 is better now than it's ever been and the DLC model works very well most of the time, even if it's not always executed perfectly. Those of us happy and in-favor with the status quo aren't the ones giving the devs lip. You're not alone and I don't think that opinion is controversial.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:01
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StealthArcher posted:Posting this made me realize he hasn't made anything in a long time, wonder what happened? He’s still posting on the paradox forums so he didn’t die or anything
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Oct 3, 2018 19:13
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He probably got tired of all the work it takes to make informative, well-researched, well-presented videos like that. Youtube isn't really a medium that rewards that kind of effort.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:52
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siggy2021 posted:What are people's problems with the game and the DLC model? If they did the same amount of work as they currently do on DLC but gave it to everyone for free, the new additions would be better integrated into the base game. On the one hand, yes, on the other hand duh.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:11
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i love johan because imperator is to vicky 3 what sengoku was to crusader kings 2
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Oct 3, 2018 21:18
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Tbh Stellaris is looking like a testbed for all sorts of Vicky-esque poo poo like pops and even a rudimentary market/industry system these days, too
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Oct 3, 2018 21:36
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While I do feel that EU4 has a few poorly-integrated features(Army Professionalism existing basically separately from Army Tradition, Discipline, etc. is really weird) or features that are pretty meh(sailors. The only time I notice they exist is if I start land-locked or am regularly sailing my main fleet half-way across the world while running dozens of trade fleets. But even then it wasn't a problem because I was richer than God). Government reforms kind of lie between them(it's weird that there's really only the one thing that affects it). Plus, the balance on idea sets is pretty weak. In the end, I'm hard on it because it's my favorite.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:47
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I'm on the bleh train simply looking at the steam storefront page for it. the complete eu4 experience is 200 bux. It doesn't feel like 200 bux. Certainly not in the same way something like, say, Civilization's expansions felt like expansions. That and of course the DLCs are all insular so people can plug and play makes them feel anemic once they're all together. Hearts of Iron is kind of similar, though there are gameplay features and such attached to dlcs the real selling power is just the focus trees, and, well, Kaiserreich - code clusterfuck as it is - is free already. I'd like to see Eu5 before more various DLCs and, while I understand the premise of the policy, would prefer Vicky 2-like expansions over more numerous and insular dlcs.
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Oct 3, 2018 23:41
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Civ expansions are basically paradox DLC but like double the price
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Oct 3, 2018 23:45
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I haven't played a whole lot of the hoi4 version of kaiserreich but from what I have played I definitely think the paradox-designed alternate history trees are a lot better. The kaiserreich Germany tree has a lot of unnecessary poo poo iirc, whereas the paradox oppose Hitler tree makes every focus seem pretty relevant. So I definitely appreciate the focus tree DLCs and will probably continue buying each one.
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Oct 3, 2018 23:50
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Yeah the only reason Civ expansions feel bigger is because Paradox give you half of the new content for free.
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Oct 3, 2018 23:52
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By the way, what was the alchemy thing in Vicky 2? Can artisans really just change resources out to anything else?
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Oct 3, 2018 23:57
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VostokProgram posted:By the way, what was the alchemy thing in Vicky 2? Can artisans really just change resources out to anything else? I don’t think anything else but they can change certain things which if you care about strict realism don’t make much sense.
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Oct 4, 2018 00:00
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Gort posted:If they did the same amount of work as they currently do on DLC but gave it to everyone for free, the new additions would be better integrated into the base game. At some point the barrier to entry people feel on seeing $200 worth of 12 or whatever we're up to separate expansions is going to cost more in both lost potential customers and accumulated technical debt than integrating the older expansions into the base game. I don't have the data to have much of a clue if Paradox have hit that point yet, but clearly you can't just make 2000 completely independent expansion features and still have a coherent game so the inflection point exists somewhere. It feels like we're at least very close to the accumulation of jank outweighing the benefits, which is why estates got made baseline and things like that. I can't think of that many other games that have as much post-release support as PDS's games and operate entirely on a separate and independent expansions model. The really old, traditional expansion + subscription MMOs like Everquest and World of Warcraft are about the closest analogue I can think of in scope, and they at least both include all but the last few years worth of expansions in their base game precisely because the alternative wasn't sustainable. Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 00:07
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It does seem weird that there's absolutely no reduction in buy-in for new players at all, I have to assume that they have some very persuasive data suggesting that they're not losing sales. The base game is still very playable even if some of the expansion features are almost impossible to imagine playing without once you've used them.
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Oct 4, 2018 00:28
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Cynic Jester posted:The big issue is the number of game systems and currencies ballooning, with many of them having poor to no interaction with other systems, often being little more than numbers going up independent of what is going on in the game. Innovativeness for instance just happens, with minimal input from the player and little effect on the gameplay. I agree with this. I have the same issues. It's a very bloated game. My feel is that the game mechanics don't seem to add up to a coherent whole like a CK2 does. I'll still most likely purchase a EUV--but I can only hope that it gets pared back and focused.
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Oct 4, 2018 00:31
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