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feeling immense pity for anyone whose bad brain caused them to miss out on timer intensive classics like dead rising
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Oct 3, 2018 16:35
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Mr. Locke posted:So, Ashe? Thats the joke.
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Oct 3, 2018 16:45
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Maybe one day they'll even release a Final Fantasy game that is good.
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Oct 3, 2018 16:52
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Mega64 posted:Maybe one day they'll even release a Final Fantasy game that is good. Nah
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Oct 3, 2018 16:57
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Sometimes a timer is a way to travel through time and interact with events that happen at certain times the way you might move around to interact with events that happen in different places, and that's good. Sometimes a timer just means you have to play faster or lose, and the possibility of losing an RPG is weird.
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Oct 3, 2018 17:00
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Barudak posted:Ok, what if hot pants on the lead female character? What about a hot pants slider on character creation?
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Oct 3, 2018 17:09
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Andrast posted:I played through LR. The problem here isn't the game.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:17
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Yeah its that Lightning never wore hot pants.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:19
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Gologle posted:Yeah its that Lightning never wore hot pants. Pretty sure at least one of her schemata had hot pants.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:21
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The time limit is terrible because it doesn't give you an estimate of how much time you should take to play the game "normally." Time constraints are fine when they give the player a sense of a deadline and the game also provides general tools in order to plan their way to that deadline without blindly fumbling about and just hoping that they're on track. LR does not do this. It doesn't matter how generous the time limit actually is if the player doesn't get clued into their relative progress especially when the consequence for failure is so huge. The Persona series does this through multiple smaller deadlines for specific dungeons so the player can never get too far behind pace.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:09
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I don't know how you can say that when they very clearly say you have to do the five big quests, that each one gives you an extra day of time, and then also give you a specific time amount to do it all in
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Oct 3, 2018 19:23
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The timer game that got me is Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. It's a quasi-roguelike (in the non-purist use of that term), non-fixed loot and floor layouts, you have grown up underground and your goal is to climb to the surface. Oh, and also you're a dragon bomb. The bar fills up as time goes on, and you also have access to strong attacks but they increase the bar more. If it maxes out you go uber-dragon, start over. However, there are a lot of systems in play to encourage you to start over; doing so raises your rank based on how far you got, and there are some locked doors that open with certain ranks allowing access to better gear. You also get extra cutscenes and backstory. So ideally the game is played until you reach a roadblock, dragon out, and start over with better stuff to get back to that point more efficiently. The thing is, while the system works if you move within it correctly, it's pushing you in different directions. Gameplay-wise it says "it's fine to spend some of your fuse to get past this guy, you're just going to push a bit further before a restart" while the story says "aaa everything you do inches closer to disaster, you can't touch your dragon powers at all!" Party XP is banked and kept on restart if unspent, but not if you use it to level up. It's all about balancing what you need to progress vs what you save for restart, but that can easily send someone into hoarding mode (as if RPGs didn't have enough issue with that already). And limited save tokens discourage experimenting to find that balance point. It was a compelling game, and one of these days I want to boot it up again and see if I can approach it with a different attitude, but it just seemed to play on all of my anxieties at once.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:26
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Personally, I'm glad that LR gives you an actual sense of urgency, rather than almost every single other RPG that tells you that the world is about to end but you actually have an unlimited amount of time to fart around with sidequests and collecting morbol asses. That meteor in the sky that's about to plummet and wipe out all life loses a lot of gravity when you can spend a hundred hours making chocobos gently caress.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:40
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Oh no, Sin is out of control, and there's nothing to stop it from destroying all of Spira! Nah, hold on, let's play an entire season of blitzball.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:43
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Elephant Ambush posted:The problem here isn't the game. I don't think people preferring different things in their games is a problem in the first place
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Oct 3, 2018 19:52
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It's a problem if they prefer things I don't!
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Oct 3, 2018 19:58
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From my memories of playing the game, Hope tells you that besides the five main quests, there's also some ambiguous amount of side quests that you also need to do in order to progress. That's the part that annoyed me mostly since I didn't have any idea how much was enough in between the main ones. Edit: I just looked it up and side quests are completely unnecessary. Does the game/Hope ever straight up tell you that? Because if it did and I missed it, then I don't have an issue with the timer. But I really don't remember the game ever saying that it's just the main quests that are necessary. Hyper Inferno fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 20:02
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Doing lots of sidequests is how you unlock the bonus dungeon, which is explained in-game by Hope as their combined energy adding up to an extra 14th day for the world (during which the dungeon is open for exploration). But you do have to do a few--you can easily tell you've done enough because you'll get a day out of it. You're free to just do some sidequests around and then go do the main thing once you You start with 7, and then you get 5 for each of the main quests and 1 for doing, like, six or seven sidequests, it's not a lot. That gets you to day 13 and the final boss. and then if you do most of the sidequests you get day 14, as stated corn in the bible fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 20:11
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But does the game ever give reassurance that you only need to beat the main quests to get to the ending? I vaguely remember Hope talking about the combined energy thing and interpreted that to mean that you needed to do X amount of side quests to even get the ending, not just a bonus dungeon.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:15
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Renoistic posted:FFXIII does very little to actually teach players how to play effectively. Just slapping death on the characters with no explanation just angers and confuses them. This. The section with Vanille and Sazh is apparently supposed to teach you that SAB slows the Stagger gauge. Beating the Scalebeasts in the designated time shwos you mastered the system. I didn't have a clue about any of this when I first played the game. I was told about it by folks on here. EDIT: You know what we haven't talked about? Persona. There are some games with grueling time limits yet they are crazy popular.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:32
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You do have to complete some sidequests I believe, but not many and it's clear when you've done enough because the tree will grow. Plus some "sidequests" aren't optional so it's even less of an imposition.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:33
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NikkolasKing posted:This. The section with Vanille and Sazh is apparently supposed to teach you that SAB slows the Stagger gauge. Beating the Scalebeasts in the designated time shwos you mastered the system. Man, I got Persona 4 off of PSN, and pretty much gave up because of the time limit thing. It’s like ‘hey do all this school/real world stuff... oh, you didn’t spend every day after school grinding the dungeon in the TV world instead? Too bad idiot. Have fun redoing an entire week.’
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Oct 3, 2018 20:45
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You literally cannot fail Persona 4. Unless that's the joke.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:47
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Fister Roboto posted:Personally, I'm glad that LR gives you an actual sense of urgency, rather than almost every single other RPG that tells you that the world is about to end but you actually have an unlimited amount of time to fart around with sidequests and collecting morbol asses. That meteor in the sky that's about to plummet and wipe out all life loses a lot of gravity when you can spend a hundred hours making chocobos gently caress. that's the good stuff though
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Oct 3, 2018 20:53
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Fister Roboto posted:Personally, I'm glad that LR gives you an actual sense of urgency, rather than almost every single other RPG that tells you that the world is about to end but you actually have an unlimited amount of time to fart around with sidequests and collecting morbol asses. That meteor in the sky that's about to plummet and wipe out all life loses a lot of gravity when you can spend a hundred hours making chocobos gently caress. Chocobo loving is scientifically proven to slow meteors
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Oct 3, 2018 20:54
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HD DAD posted:Chocobo loving is scientifically proven to slow meteors The one thing consistent across every Final Fantasy.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:58
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Persona games time limits end up wasting more of your time than anything.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:00
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Lessail posted:that's the good stuff though I'm not saying there shouldn't be chocobo loving sidequests, but maybe if you're going to say that the world is about to be destroyed, you should actually mean it.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:04
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm not saying there shouldn't be chocobo loving sidequests, but maybe if you're going to say that the world is about to be destroyed, you should actually mean it. But every JRPG ever says that when the world is ending and the villain is at their most powerful you have to stop and do several hours of quests to gain ultimate weapons or whatever. It's just how it is.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:12
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God Hates Chocoboners
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Oct 3, 2018 21:14
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm not saying there shouldn't be chocobo loving sidequests, but maybe if you're going to say that the world is about to be destroyed, you should actually mean it. ah ok glad you're in favor of disabling saves
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Oct 3, 2018 21:15
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I once spent over a week on the end game of Final Fantasy VII, and when I realized what I’d done I broke my game discs and spent days weeping at the dozens of NPC I fated to death. Later on I learned about the EU and realized I had actually done a mercy killing.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:18
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NikkolasKing posted:But every JRPG ever says that when the world is ending and the villain is at their most powerful you have to stop and do several hours of quests to gain ultimate weapons or whatever. Uhhhh yeah that's my point, I'm glad when it isn't like that because it's dumb. And it's not every game, there are a lot of great exceptions. Like FF6 where the world has already ended, or FF8 where time has literally stopped. Not to mention all the other games where the entire world isn't at risk in the first place.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:33
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On a cuter note, FF14 added a tablet emote with this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2sVZbN1yU8
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Oct 3, 2018 21:37
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NikkolasKing posted:This. The section with Vanille and Sazh is apparently supposed to teach you that SAB slows the Stagger gauge. Beating the Scalebeasts in the designated time shwos you mastered the system. You can get by in 13 still very effectively even if you don't use SAB debuffs for your chain duration, so this isn't really a good example. I mean, I guess there's the section in Chapter 4 where Sahz doesn't have commando yet and you're in Sahz/Vanille? But there's only like 2 fights before it gives you lightning again and both of the encounters are very skippable. Pretty much anything you need to actually beat the main story, the game tells you plenty well by just the tutorials or in-game move/item descriptions.
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Oct 3, 2018 22:31
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Gah holy poo poo guys what is even going on?! Just finished chapter 11. The mention and noticing of shorter days is really eerie and that train battle was fun, but what became of my best bro prompto? Will he ever forgive me?
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Oct 4, 2018 01:01
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Kingtheninja posted:Gah holy poo poo guys what is even going on?! Just finished chapter 11. The mention and noticing of shorter days is really eerie and that train battle was fun, but what became of my best bro prompto? Will he ever forgive me? For the answers to these questions and more, buy the Prompto DLC!!!
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Oct 4, 2018 01:10
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Kingtheninja posted:Gah holy poo poo guys what is even going on?! Just finished chapter 11. The mention and noticing of shorter days is really eerie and that train battle was fun, but what became of my best bro prompto? Will he ever forgive me? if you buy prompto gear solid you will learn and you will regret your words and deeds
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Oct 4, 2018 01:14
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Mr. Locke posted:FFXIII buries you in tutorial boxes, gives you AI companions who once they're done fishing for weaknesses will do everything in their control to carry a fight properly, slow-rolls you abilities to give you time to learn how each new one changes your playstyle, showers you in powerful consumables if you're struggling, regularly throws normal enemies that force you to engage with the game's systems without destroying you utterly for it (as well as the Eidolon battles which do the same but DO destroy you for it, so meh) and gives you a rating system that basically all but tells you 'Gotta Go Fast.' About the only thing they can DO to help the player that they don't (besides making the weapon upgrading system less obtuse) is just refuse any attempts to set a Rav or Com/Sen/Med paradigm once they get a full party, and that's only because that seems to be the token paradigm of bads who don't want to actually try to use the paradigm system and coast through the game until Bart feeds them a hot steaming pile of nope. Except even people who know the game say it doesn't teach you well at all, and the fact the game does so much for you actually decreases how well they teach you since it means you can coast by without necessarily realizing what you are doing right or wrong. They'll tell you 5 million things about the area in their book but they don't actually teach you well. Most people seemingly at least pick up that Commando slows the gauge and ravagers fill it, but that's about the extent of the easily figured out mechanics and people still don't always learn that. Like the main reason I personally didn't ever go 3 sentinels (or even 1 most the time) was that several high damage attacks were area of effect and taunting them onto a sentinel just meant that the sentinel didn't get harmed that bad while Lightning for example took a lazer to the face unprotected because she decided to dash in front of it to do her attack, making it feel worthless to use a sentinel unless I can't survive the attack at all and so can't heal it up. Launching is functionally never taught in how to take advantage of it, and I know plenty of people who don't really try to use Sab at all because Final Fantasy has conditioned its players to believe debuffs are worthless. The fact that you can get so far using bad tactics also means that it teaches you BAD tactics instead causing the number of people who get stuck on Odin or Bart and give up since the tactics they've used so far effectively no longer work and they don't care to change their playstyle anymore in a game they don't enjoy. (either because its got a terrible story or because their method of playing is unenjoyable. I know I actually got to the dungeon JUST before the game opened up and said 'gently caress this I've not been enjoying this for awhile, they can go gently caress themselves' and was told after I was 'almost to the good part' after I'd gotten sick of the game.) Its a game where a LITTLE knowledge can carry you a LONG way, and a moderate level of skill can take you to the end of the game(if not some optional bosses maybe?). But doesn't specifically require them in a non-minigame feeling way until Bart. (Shiva and Odin feel fairly different from normal battles in general to me just because of how limited you are in their respective fights.) There's a reason ff13 was taken so negatively and supposedly they learned from that when making 2 and 3. It just came a bit to late for ALOT of fans. (Including me. But my hatred of lightning pretty well cemented my not getting them since they focus so heavily on her being the best thing ever totally.)
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Oct 4, 2018 01:16
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Unironically FF13’s tutorials should have done the super patronizing “do this with no choice, now see result” mechanism for a few things.
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Oct 4, 2018 01:27
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