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corn in the bible posted:if you buy prompto gear solid you will learn and you will regret your words and deeds YO, for real, did ANYBODY regret their words and deeds once they got to know Quiet? Cus I sure as hell didn't.
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Oct 4, 2018 01:55
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Chapter 13 Despite how heavy the plot has been, I got a laugh out of ignis yelling WHERE ARE WE NOW during the car chase.
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Oct 4, 2018 01:58
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Sefal posted:Time limits give me the feeling that I need to rush. And I don't like that because I like to relax and explore and take my time. No matter how generous the limit is. And FFXIII-3 was very generous Real life is on a time limit and video games are not an optimal use of it
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Oct 4, 2018 03:31
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The idea that people even hit the deadlines in Personas 4 and 5 without completing the dungeons is ridiculous to me. I don't even know what kind of playstyle would lead to that. Did people just assume the real endgame was beef bowls? You don't even need to grind in those games.
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Oct 4, 2018 03:42
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Cleretic posted:The idea that people even hit the deadlines in Personas 4 and 5 without completing the dungeons is ridiculous to me. I don't even know what kind of playstyle would lead to that. Did people just assume the real endgame was beef bowls? Beef bowls took me more effort than basically every other boss in the game 
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Oct 4, 2018 03:47
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Dross posted:Real life is on a time limit and video games are not an optimal use of it Life has no optimal use
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Oct 4, 2018 05:06
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Barudak posted:Life has no optimal use Don Gato posted:Beef bowls
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Oct 4, 2018 05:10
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Gologle posted:YO, for real, did ANYBODY regret their words and deeds once they got to know Quiet? Cus I sure as hell didn't. I didn't regret my words and deeds because I never said anything bad about my sniping buddy Quiet
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Oct 4, 2018 05:41
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I regretted the single mission I brought her along on because it meant I wasn't hanging out with my dog
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Oct 4, 2018 05:49
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NikkolasKing posted:You know what we haven't talked about? Persona. There are some games with grueling time limits yet they are crazy popular. It's funny you bring them up, because I've had no less than THREE different friends bounce off Persona 3/4 for (imo) equally dumb reasons, including "I don't like the daylimit", "I feel bad having to constantly get rid of my personas" (I blame Pokemon), and the ever popular "It's too hard!".
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Oct 4, 2018 05:57
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Chaeden posted:\and I know plenty of people who don't really try to use Sab at all because Final Fantasy has conditioned its players to believe debuffs are worthless. WHat's funny is that this isn't true for any game in the series really. What FF does bad is not show you what debuffs are good.
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Oct 4, 2018 06:27
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Dr Pepper posted:WHat's funny is that this isn't true for any game in the series really. A lot of people just lack any drive to engage with the system. Not a whole lot you can do about that.
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Oct 4, 2018 06:43
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A massive amount of Final Fantasy games have a problem with not really providing feedback that debuffs and status ailments even affectan enemy, much less how much it's doing. Some of them tint enemies a little, but not all of them. Only in this year's Four Job Fiesta did I learn that Slow was actually a spell worth casting in V, and I never figured out how long it last.
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Oct 4, 2018 10:27
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There's also the problem of some status effects being near-useless, except for that one boss where it makes the fight trivial. Like a spell casting boss that is vulnerable to Silence. Though the fact that lots of bosses in the series have "hidden" ways to trivialize them is just a part of the series that I've come to enjoy anyway. I'm pretty sure I've never legitimately fought that one undead boss in Cosmo Canyon, I just use a Phoenix Down on it and call it a day.
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Oct 4, 2018 10:34
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All this talk of buffs and debuffs just makes me think of SMT. The fact i'm playing an SMT game also probably helps. Is there an FF equivalent to Matador AKA "this is how you play the game and if you don't realize it, you lose"? (fuckin' love that fight. Everything about it is great from the cutscene beforehand to the fight itself to the fight's music)
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Oct 4, 2018 11:10
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Bart 1 in FF13 I guess, none of the others are really hard enough to have one.
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Oct 4, 2018 11:17
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NikkolasKing posted:All this talk of buffs and debuffs just makes me think of SMT. The fact i'm playing an SMT game also probably helps. it's funny because the boss in persona 3 that you're supposed to fight like an FF boss (sleeping table) is what made me stop playing god i hate sleeping table. who the gently caress on the design team thought it was a good or even interesting fight. clearly it's not when the only two acknowledged strategies are "win through attrition casting mediarama for 50 turns" or "cast the high crit buff and pray." i think my tolerance for poo poo design is fairly high but that's just off the charts yknow. i say this having been at a high enough level to have the healing spells, i just refused to put up with it on principle. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 11:31
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I'm playing V and I'm beginning to see why all my friends who repeatedly play it hate Lenna. I wanted to play it so I wouldn't fly into FJF next year completely blind but am second guessing even doing that, I think at this rate I would have the same level of success at it whether it was a blind run or not.
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Oct 4, 2018 11:34
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NikkolasKing posted:All this talk of buffs and debuffs just makes me think of SMT. The fact i'm playing an SMT game also probably helps. XV has that first Magitech walker, the one that ends chapter 2. The first fight that's got enough terrain, reinforcements, and with an enemy with enough targets on it that you REALLY need to start learning how to use the warp strike for maneuverability. You could argue that the 'wait until they're not defending themselves anymore' from FFs IV-VII count (Mist Dragon, Wing Raptor, Ymir and the Scorpion Tank), but they never really use those mechanics in the game, you're rarely waiting to execute moves in those. That same boss exists in Chrono Trigger where that actually is a big part of the combat, though, if that counts.
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Oct 4, 2018 11:53
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Cleretic posted:There's a lot of people who rate games poorly because they go for the boring as poo poo style and it turns out that it's boring as poo poo. So yeah, maybe nudge them towards your intended playstyle if your game's supposed to have one. I know my experience in games with rating systems tends to get improved when I actually go for the playstyle they encourage. That's a very common problem in RPGs indeed. FF12 suffered for it immensely, and modern remake with fast-forward only made it worse. When you come into a new location you can see what monsters are there and carefully change your party gambits... Or you can leave it at "heal when damaged else attack" and just come back to crystal from time to time. Second choice may take a little more time (maybe less with fast-forward option) but in the end it will help you with grind and keep your party powerful. A lot of Western RPGs too suffer from the fact that basic tactic you learn at the beginning works through the whole game. Even Pillars of Eternity or Divinity Original Sin 1 with their refined combat had that.
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Oct 4, 2018 11:59
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Cleretic posted:XV has that first Magitech walker, the one that ends chapter 2. The first fight that's got enough terrain, reinforcements, and with an enemy with enough targets on it that you REALLY need to start learning how to use the warp strike for maneuverability. FFXV diminishes any attempt it makes to present you with a challenge or a lesson by giving you cheap instant healing items. I've wanted to be completionist about it and do all the sidequests but then I've ventured into some military based with enemies 20 levels higher than me. It took me 10 minutes to fight the area boss and I've spend dozens of potions but it was still easy to do, if a beat boring. By that time I haven't even bought any potions and just used what I've found. I realized that I can probably beat any enemy right now if I buy enough potions and then it was just about struggling through the main story.
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Oct 4, 2018 12:09
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ilitarist posted:FFXV diminishes any attempt it makes to present you with a challenge or a lesson by giving you cheap instant healing items. I've wanted to be completionist about it and do all the sidequests but then I've ventured into some military based with enemies 20 levels higher than me. It took me 10 minutes to fight the area boss and I've spend dozens of potions but it was still easy to do, if a beat boring. By that time I haven't even bought any potions and just used what I've found. I realized that I can probably beat any enemy right now if I buy enough potions and then it was just about struggling through the main story. I don't know who thought it was a good idea for losing all your hp to just put you in an injured state that you can instantly potion out of. It killed the game's whole challenge.
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Oct 4, 2018 12:21
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cock hero flux posted:I don't know who thought it was a good idea for losing all your hp to just put you in an injured state that you can instantly potion out of. It killed the game's whole challenge. There's a lot of things that 'kill FFXV's whole challenge'. It's a game that could be hard, and is terrified of that and so goes to absurd lengths to prevent it.
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Oct 4, 2018 12:33
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One day i'll experience FFXV's buffed ring. that was almost useless in launch FFXV
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Oct 4, 2018 13:00
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Tonfa posted:A lot of people just lack any drive to engage with the system. Not a whole lot you can do about that. A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different?
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Oct 4, 2018 13:19
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Saint Freak posted:A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different? there's a lot to unpack in this post
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Oct 4, 2018 13:21
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Oxxidation posted:there's a lot to unpack in this post Never meet other gamers if you can avoid it. And definitely never get into tabletop games Saint Freak fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 13:22
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Saint Freak posted:A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different? This is a pretty personal response for what started with "FFs are bad at showing you if buffs or debuffs work or not".
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Oct 4, 2018 13:29
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Saint Freak posted:A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different? 
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Oct 4, 2018 13:32
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Saint Freak is a loving jock
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Oct 4, 2018 13:35
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Saint Freak posted:A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different? Taping the button down would be good for all of one press Who's the fake nerd now hee hee snort
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Oct 4, 2018 13:38
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Calaveron posted:Taping the button down would be good for all of one press Quick, let's all name RPG's that can be beaten with only half a button press.
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Oct 4, 2018 13:41
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But first, let's discuss parallel universes.
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Oct 4, 2018 13:43
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Raxivace posted:Actually, it would be only half a press. FF12
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Oct 4, 2018 13:43
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Saint Freak posted:A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different? Nice Merton
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Oct 4, 2018 13:48
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FF13’s warmech is supposed to be a hard check you know what you’re doing at a basic level and it worked because I know two people who couldnt beat it and gave up.
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Oct 4, 2018 14:37
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Here's the fun dynamic of people in a 90's Rio ghetto. The people with videogames were drug dealers, kids of drug dealers, or gang members. Video games also have a history of costing a lot here, for reference a PS4 cost 1800 dollars at launch, or almost a year of minimum wage at the time. Having a videogame back then was probably slightly easier for the middle class than it is now but it sure wasn't for us. When I read stories of "gifted" kids being moved to universities in American movies/tv shows that genuinely seems so alien to me, the notion of that is pretty fantastic. Nerds weren't told they were gifted by professors because nobody gave a poo poo, your grades are always good because the professors were scared shitless of not giving good grades, at some point you realized you could just doodle on exams and get away with it. But if you knew English then you had street cred because you could translate these games and a lot of people would gather in someone's house to play the game. When I first beat FFVII it was in split segments over a period of two or so years in my friends' houses. At the time and context, Barret was seen as a badass by everyone, there were not a lot of black protagonists in games, and FFVII was the first RPG I saw to have a wider appeal back then because of that and the setting. I presume because of the huge Japanese population in São Paulo, there were plenty of Japan-exclusive games imported and sometimes they got to us. I did a lot of the English translation but there was a kid who was some sort of savant who learned Japanese on his own and translated stuff to us. Without a proper Japanese-Portuguese dictionary he had huge tables written in a notebook with all the symbols and context and over the years his notebook got huge. Eventually someone just bought him a dictionary and most of his guesses were right, which pretty made him a hero to us. This is that kind of story that doesn't seem that interesting to an outsider, I suppose, but it was crazy how much that kid got right from 8 to 12 or so dedicating himself to deciphering Japanese with no frame of reference. I never met anyone interested in WRPGs until way later in my life, the Japanese consoles were all the fad and no one cared about having a PC and it's not like we had internet service there. The tabletop players were the back of the classroom people who found freestyle tabletop RPG to be a really good way to kill time in school, we'd use dice to roll general decisions and events but we seldom used character sheets. We'd meet with the average middle class geek from time to time when we played outside of the school but no one seemed to mind. Man now that I think about it, in the two schools I studied, the tabletop crew was my favorite by far.
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Oct 4, 2018 15:05
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Chaeden posted:Except even people who know the game say it doesn't teach you well at all, and the fact the game does so much for you actually decreases how well they teach you since it means you can coast by without necessarily realizing what you are doing right or wrong. They'll tell you 5 million things about the area in their book but they don't actually teach you well. Most people seemingly at least pick up that Commando slows the gauge and ravagers fill it, but that's about the extent of the easily figured out mechanics and people still don't always learn that. The reason people figure out that Commando's build Chain duration and Ravagers build chain bar is because the game itself explicitly tells you.... And then the game explicitly tells you buffs and debuffs are good and forces you to use those characters in specific fights that highlight how good those buffs and debuffs are. With just those things, you can handle pretty much anything in the main storyline. Like there's no secret fundamental trick that FF13 is holding back on you that you NEED to beat it. What is it that you think FF13 needs to beat it that it's not telling you? The only people I've met who quit FF13 only because of the difficulty (and they tolerated everything else) did so because they just simply didn't have fast enough execution, cause they hadn't played any action games or games with timing at all, so the fights in Chapter 11 started to overpower them because they couldn't switch paradigms fast enough on the fly. That was a very specific physical problem though, which is sorta the downside of introducing execution in the first place and there's not much you can do about it short of removing it entirely. It's also doesn't seem like that's the problem you (or any of the posters in this thread) bring up. This just reiterates Mr Locke's point: FF13 definitely has flaws, but not because it's hiding necessary information from the player or even being obtuse about it. Chaeden posted:Like the main reason I personally didn't ever go 3 sentinels (or even 1 most the time) was that several high damage attacks were area of effect and taunting them onto a sentinel just meant that the sentinel didn't get harmed that bad while Lightning for example took a lazer to the face unprotected because she decided to dash in front of it to do her attack, making it feel worthless to use a sentinel unless I can't survive the attack at all and so can't heal it up. Launching is functionally never taught in how to take advantage of it You don't need the triple sentinel paradigm at all for the main story. And you don't even need to use sentinels for most fights in the game (usually the fights where sentinels aren't forced on you). This isn't considering that the game has at least 4 explicit sections that emphasize how to use sentinels to save your skin, and that most fights (even boss fights?) don't have such large and damaging AOEs that sentinels become useless. Most bosses with those AOEs aren't very damaging at all and don't happen often so it's not any real factor, and the damaging ones (Adamantoise stomps, Bart 3 and Orphan 1, and like 2 superbosses) are way later. The launching point makes no real sense, given 1. Launching actually isn't fundamental to beating the game? Like it can help if you use it smartly, but there's nothing that requires it. Most bosses can't even be launched anyways. 2. There's nothing super special to teach? Like yes, if you time hits in stagger well, you can keep them effectively launched, but once you have 3 party members in general this is going to naturally happen anyways. Not like it matters when you can relaunch anyways and enemies have long recovery when they hit the ground. Anyone is going to naturally see all you need to know about launching as soon as you do it. Which leads into... 3. Unless you're doing a No Crystarium run, it's basically impossible to not launch something in the game. Launch is an early crystarium ability to get on Lightning and you're gonna be forced to use Lightning for some sort of forced fight that has a launchable enemy all the way up to Chapter 9. Chaeden posted:and I know plenty of people who don't really try to use Sab at all because Final Fantasy has conditioned its players to believe debuffs are worthless. Dr Pepper posted:WHat's funny is that this isn't true for any game in the series really. Dr Pepper hit the nail on the head here, but funnily enough FF13 even explicitly tries to tell and show the player what debuffs work/don't work. Just look at the enemy data screen in battle, where not only does it tell you status immunities automatically as you use them, it also flat out tells you which statuses have increased chances of landing with the "Susceptible to Poison" sentences that automatically fill in as the battle progresses (or you use scan to just see everything at the start). Only thing it could do to make it more obvious would be to just right out list the Status percentages out for players to see, which for some reason a lot of JRPGs don't want to give the nitty gritty technical numbers like that.
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Oct 4, 2018 15:07
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Barudak posted:FF13’s warmech is supposed to be a hard check you know what you’re doing at a basic level and it worked because I know two people who couldnt beat it and gave up. In all the times I've introduced FF13 to people or just watched others play, I've never seen anyone lose to warmech and quit, but I do find this kinda funny. But idk, most of the time I just tell people to use potions in the early game and they're fine because potions are strong for a large portion of ff13 and you get a stupidly large amount of them in chapters 1-3.
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Oct 4, 2018 15:10
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Ventana posted:In all the times I've introduced FF13 to people or just watched others play, I've never seen anyone lose to warmech and quit, but I do find this kinda funny. But idk, most of the time I just tell people to use potions in the early game and they're fine because potions are strong for a large portion of ff13 and you get a stupidly large amount of them in chapters 1-3. I say this without a hint of double entendre but I was invited to a coworkers house to beat warmech for them.
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Oct 4, 2018 15:14
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