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Ruby Weapon becomes trivial when you realize it's weak to stun.
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Oct 4, 2018 15:50
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Saint Freak posted:A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different? This is absolutely true. JRPG players consistently take the easy way out to play in the most brain dead way imaginable and complain when the game doesn't force them to use strategy, bragging about how the game is too easy. Even better, if a game does force them to play in a more thoughtful way than they're used to, they'll complain that the game is punishing them and moan about how badly the game was designed to force only a single viable strategy (the only single strategy they can think of because they have no imagination).
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Oct 4, 2018 16:50
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JRPGs are possibly the easiest genre there is though. Final Fantasies in particular are not exactly tuned very finely and you get no huge benefit from doing anything other than smashing attack in the vast majority of them for the majority of the time. In some cases (like 8), you are actually optimized by being as braindead as possible due to level scaling, with anything between "smash attack to win" and "overthink the game and break it completely" being a valley of the game punishing you. In general, you need to perform very specific challenges to take the most out of them and get to the level where the bare minimum of strategy or creativity is needed. The games are pretty much long stories built for you to read and enjoy the ride while playing at game reviewer difficulty mode.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:08
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If you want to be more charitable I think you could say the two discussion issues are intertwined. Some people mash through a game with no strategy beyond use biggest attack and sometimes heal, but as mentions many jrpgs aren't very clear about how buffs/debuffs/status effects are helping you, if they even work. How many games have a pile of status effects that are basically only effective when used on the player? EDIT: also yeah the genre as a whole is very easy
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Oct 4, 2018 17:09
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Elentor posted:JRPGs are possibly the easiest genre there is though. And yet it's the genre where it's most common for new players to follow along with a 100% walkthrough on their first playthrough.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:16
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gigglefeimer posted:And yet it's the genre where it's most common for new players to follow along with a 100% walkthrough on their first playthrough. That has more to do with the length of these games and their incessant need to hide bullshit sidequests that maybe only get discovered 15 years later.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:23
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Phantasium posted:That has more to do with the length of these games and their incessant need to hide bullshit sidequests that maybe only get discovered 15 years later.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:24
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Jrpgs are definitely easy but I wouldn't call them the easiest genre honestly. gigglefeimer posted:This is absolutely true. JRPG players consistently take the easy way out to play in the most brain dead way imaginable and complain when the game doesn't force them to use strategy, bragging about how the game is too easy. Even better, if a game does force them to play in a more thoughtful way than they're used to, they'll complain that the game is punishing them and moan about how badly the game was designed to force only a single viable strategy (the only single strategy they can think of because they have no imagination). This post puts it better and I agree. This is why I never really mind if an rpg is too easy nowadays and for the latter complaint I focus on "okay, so this was the intended strategy, was I prepared enough to come up with the solution or was it too obscure?", which is why the teaching/learning discussion earlier interests me.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:29
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Phantasium posted:That has more to do with the length of these games and their incessant need to hide bullshit sidequests that maybe only get discovered 15 years later. Regardless, players frequently cite "broken" strategies that trivialize the games even though there's often no way in hell they would find those strategies by themselves on their first playthrough without outside help from the internet.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:31
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gigglefeimer posted:Regardless, players frequently cite "broken" strategies that trivialize the games even though there's often no way in hell they would find those strategies by themselves on their first playthrough without outside help from the internet. It's almost like people enjoy games in different ways
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Oct 4, 2018 17:33
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Andrast posted:It's almost like people enjoy games in different ways This isn't a response to anything I said but okay
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Oct 4, 2018 17:36
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gigglefeimer posted:This isn't a response to anything I said but okay It's a response to you being weird about other people who play jrpgs
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Oct 4, 2018 17:38
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Andrast posted:It's a response to you being weird about other people who play jrpgs My first post on this topic is agreeing with you, dude. So how is it a response to state what I just said.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:42
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Relax Or DIE posted:If you want to be more charitable I think you could say the two discussion issues are intertwined. Some people mash through a game with no strategy beyond use biggest attack and sometimes heal, but as mentions many jrpgs aren't very clear about how buffs/debuffs/status effects are helping you, if they even work. How many games have a pile of status effects that are basically only effective when used on the player? This is a really interesting subject. As every game designer likes to put it, game designers want to protect players from themselves because players will usually take the path of least resistance. But this only tells you half the story - consider the concept of bosses, for example. It is expected that a boss is a jump in difficulty from the average enemy. So the difficulty curve of a game has spikes and resets. Think of the average encounter difficulty up until the boss, and they go like this: Trash Mob: 0 Trash Mob: 1 Trash Mob: 1 Trash Mob: 1 Boss: 6 Trash Mob: 1 (Eventually) Trash Mob: 2 Boss: 7 Now levels are sometimes conflated with difficulty, and sometimes they're conflated in the wrong way - that since your level and the enemy's are the same, difficulty should remain the same, but that's never the case. Over a game, the overall boss difficulty follows a curve. That curve changes from game to game, but imagine one that goes like this: Bosses get harder, you get a power spike either from getting better or unlocking mechanics and they get easier, and then they slowly get harder again all the way until the final bosses. It's expected that the final boss will be harder than the first boss. The average enemy is used to tell you a lot about the game overall. If you're not having a very easy time with them, or if you don't see how you >could< have a very easy time with them, then it tells you that you're not prepared for the boss. I'd argue that most JRPGs, however, don't really train or condition the player to play the game in an interesting way. Buffs and Debuffs are the classic example: There are no defined rules about them in FFs, and they cannot be intuited from. Since Ruby Weapon was used as an example - Ruby Weapon is not immune to Paralysis - Who would have guessed? Like, how many of you guys here have seen at least once a FF boss list of immunities and wanted to instead read the abridged version saying what the boss is not immune to? On Ruby Weapon alone I can tell you, he's weak to Paralysis, but not weak to Stop. He's immune to Poison, and Sleep, and Silence, and everything else. Why is he even immune to Poison? Who knows! For the majority of the game, bosses are immune to most debuffs. So let's assume you're a very patient player who's interested in the game system and engaged in it, and you're willing to test stuff out on the Boss that takes 5x Critical Damage and can be one-shot instead. You'll quickly find out that most bosses shrug off your debuffs, or they're not clearly defined, or sometimes they're downright bugged and don't work. JRPGs don't communicate their math very well either: What is 1 Def? Is it an upgrade? You assume it is, but the first armor in FFVII doesn't actually reduce any damage despite increasing your armor value. Oh and later on, MDef is bugged. Just how Evade, and with that a bunch of Evade-related stats, don't work on FF6. Either way you quickly find out that smashing Attack kills the bosses and if you don't then the game tells you you're wasting time. Debuffs are not interesting to use on trash mobs because they will typically die faster and more efficiently to raw damage, and they don't work on a lot of bosses, and there's no way to know when they work or when they don't. Unless you really like breaking a game apart like I and very few other people do, testing every single stat is neither meaningful gameplay nor meaningful use of time. If you for some reason get stuck in a boss that somehow kills you, reading on a guide which stats the boss is vulnerable to is both easier and more interesting than wasting a lot of time trying every single combination of stuff you have in the hopes that one of them will work. And because of that, and test groups, most bosses are tuned (especially early bosses) to be killed with absolutely no effort whatsoever. Since the game is not challenging at any moment, player expectancy becomes that the gameplay is not worth their attention, so any boss that breaks that rule is a nuisance rather than an entertaining challenge, because they break the pace of the story in a way that is unexpected. Unless you're specifically looking for challenges (Monster Arena, Weapons, etc) the entire game become extremely trivial and any boss that is actually hard is an oddity in the expected difficulty curve. Elentor fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 17:42
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This is a good post. Fascinating.
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Oct 4, 2018 17:46
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Elentor posted:Unless you really like breaking a game apart like I and very few other people do, testing every single stat is neither meaningful gameplay nor meaningful use of time. This is the real reason I use Nihalaoparsthfrchtf remedies in FF12, it's not that I hate casting individual debuffs but it's a waste of time going through them one at a time to find out which ones (might) work.
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Oct 4, 2018 18:33
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Polsy posted:This is the real reason I use Nihalaoparsthfrchtf remedies in FF12, it's not that I hate casting individual debuffs but it's a waste of time going through them one at a time to find out which ones (might) work. Reverse niho is required on trial level 100 to give judges virus because otherwise they elixir each other back to full health. That was arguably my favorite superboss because instead of massive HP like Yazmat, you actually kind of have to figure out how to beat them in a way that they can't retaliate.
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Oct 4, 2018 18:45
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Raxivace posted:Actually, it would be only half a press. you can't have only half a press, the half press is course-specific notation which indicates that it requires a press but that it uses the same press as an earlier action which took place outside the course, so it does not add a press to the game's overall count but cannot be completed with 0 presses when played on its own
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Oct 4, 2018 18:59
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Elentor posted:JRPGs are possibly the easiest genre there is though. They're easy on reaction times and input skill but a JPRG isn't inherently easier than any other game where input skill is not the key factor in determining success. It's very possible for a JPRG to be quite challenging(assuming that grinding is either made mechanically impossible or the player simply chooses not to do it, any JRPG that allows indefinite grinding can be totally trivialized if you've got enough free time). Final Fantasy, however, is generally a very easy series. 7 especially, the most famous and influential one, is incredibly easy. The biggest difficulty spikes in 7, as far as I'm aware, are probably Demon Wall and Carry Armour, and neither of them is actually particularly hard. It's just that they require a strategy other than testing all your magic and attacking to see which does the most damage then spamming that and healing when you're low. Not a complicated one, just like, "use buffs" or "attack a specific body part first". Ultimately I think the influence 7 had on the genre is part of the reason why JRPGs tend towards being easy, although there are definitely harder ones out there.
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Oct 4, 2018 19:13
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cock hero flux posted:you can't have only half a press, the half press is course-specific notation which indicates that it requires a press but that it uses the same press as an earlier action which took place outside the course, so it does not add a press to the game's overall count but cannot be completed with 0 presses when played on its own
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Oct 4, 2018 19:25
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Polsy posted:This is the real reason I use Nihalaoparsthfrchtf remedies in FF12, it's not that I hate casting individual debuffs but it's a waste of time going through them one at a time to find out which ones (might) work. Yeah, pretty much. It's not a problem to be solved, and it's not meaningful gameplay, unless you consider turning off gameover and then mindlessly brute-forcing every single digit in a sudoku until you solve it interesting. Testing every single iteration of stuff on a boss is not compelling in the slightest, it's just a huge, colossal waste of time. In fact, the games that are tuned towards letting you know beforehand the weaknesses and strengths of a boss are the ones that let you skip to the actual planning and strategizing part of fighting a boss, (some are even from Square-Enix nowadays), and the bulk of JRPGs throughout history are not tuned towards that, they're tuned so that you can call a helper and someone will tell you "Oh if you're having trouble just throw a phoenix down at it". We just read recently "when I found out that Ruby Weapon is weak to paralysis the fight got trivial". So is the difficulty based on obfuscation to that player? There's no challenge, there's just trial-and-error, and not the kind of which involve you learning how to get through a challenge, or learning the boss patterns, they're just "what cheese can I do" trial-and-error. What do you do if you have a Fire setup and you know a boss is immune to Fire? You stop, and rethink your setup, and plan around it and try your new battle plan, assuming the gameplay is interesting enough for you to want to do that in the first place. What do you do if you're auto-attacking everything mindlessly because everything in the game is both arbitrary and easy, and suddenly a boss involves "actual strategy" (which is just finding out that they're weak to a stat nobody else is)? If you're still playing at this point it's not because of the fantastic, mind-blowing, earth-shattering combat mechanics. You read a guide and continue through the story, because ain't nobody got time for that. I say this from the point of view as someone who genuinely enjoys theorycrafting and problem-solving, and I've played many JRPGs, almost every FF, and there's definitely very few of it in any of them, and it's not really a contradiction that someone will want to read a guide and call the games easy. They are easy, and they're not interesting enough to warrant not reading a guide in the few moments that they're not. If you want a modicum of challenge you're better off knowing FFV inside-out already and then playing the 4JF and hope that you don't get a combination that is too boring on top of that. Just as a final anecdote on the subject, the most fun I had with the actual gameplay of FF7, was playing the optional boss Venus, Locke and Theo in the hard mode mod. I don't even like all of the decisions taken by that mod, or even that fight, but that fight was interesting because it allowed you to freely use stuff that bosses seldom let you (include put the bosses on Confusion) and they're still challenging. They also let you steal good items (something I like in FF9, that using steal on bosses is >reliably< useful, reliably being the keyword I find most important here) which is great considering it's a hard mode challenge and you want every help you can find, but due to the challenge the fight poses you need every turn you can get in it, and each one of the 3 items you're trying to steal increases the danger of the boss considerably, so you have multiple difficulties in a single boss with adequate payoffs. Still, I recorded 3 videos of me beating the fight in different ways, one of which involved depleting the boss mana, the only time I actually felt the Barret's limit was genuinely useful in the entire game. It's not a paragon of game design, but I got entertained in a way that no boss fight in the original game did. The rest of the LP involved a very similar challenge, but for the exact opposite reason. I had an actual challenge coming up with "imaginative" ways of dealing with the bosses out of courtesy for the readers, because the truth is, every boss could be killed with spamming attack. So I wanted to kill the bosses in different ways, and sometimes even in the ways that the developers intended, judging from the bosses' weaknesses (one even also has a weakness to confusion, funnily enough). Every FF is pretty much like that until it sometimes decides it isn't. The last of which I played was 12TZA blind and as much as I enjoyed the experience and the show, the entire gameplay is a complete joke that mixes both an incredibly undertuned difficulty curve and a lot of obfuscation, so basically the worst of both worlds. So much obfuscation. cock hero flux posted:They're easy on reaction times and input skill but a JPRG isn't inherently easier than any other game where input skill is not the key factor in determining success. It's very possible for a JPRG to be quite challenging(assuming that grinding is either made mechanically impossible or the player simply chooses not to do it, any JRPG that allows indefinite grinding can be totally trivialized if you've got enough free time). I don't think a JRPG is inherently easy by virtue of the genre, as I just pointed out somebody found a way to make a difficult and (for me) interesting boss fight in notoriously easy FF7. But JRPGs in general tend to be extremely easy compared to other games of their era and in turn they don't have very interesting combat either. We can all list the games which we think are exceptions - I myself like a bunch of games that I know other people don't, but I don't think I ever played a JRPG that made me stop and think "seriously, how the gently caress do I deal with this" like I had to with games from pretty much every other genre. The only JRPG I think that halted me hard was Vagrant Story which I had to start over, and half of it was because that game is extremely punishing on you if you're not a native speaker and I had no idea what was going on. Elentor fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 19:26
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Saint Freak posted:A big part of JRPG/WRPG/Tabletop playerbases are people who were told they were 'gifted' in highschool because they coasted by on rote memorization and the bare minimum only to find out later they're barely average. They've tricked themselves into thinking these must be the games for them because golly look at all the numbers and mechanics and strategies not like those sportsball games the jocks/fratboys/chads/whatever play. And yet they never actually use any of it electing instead to max the in-game timer out at 999 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds as they grind to level infinity and beat the final boss through the non-strategy of hitting the attack button 150 times in a row which is something that could be accomplished by placing tape over the x button. And of course this works so why would they ever try something different? hahaha wow
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Oct 4, 2018 19:48
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Cleretic posted:There's a lot of things that 'kill FFXV's whole challenge'. It's a game that could be hard, and is terrified of that and so goes to absurd lengths to prevent it. personally i prefer to make things that are easy by design rather than hard by design. especially when you think everything is easy, because you know how it all works, it's much safer to err heavily on the side of caution. the rage quit case is one of the most unfortunate things you can do to a player. if a game is too easy, they might become bored, but boredom is a passive and fairly neutral response; a rage quit is an active decision because they decided your difficulty curve is unbearable, and that gives the player an extremely negative impression.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:12
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JRPG players frequently get destroyed by JRPGs when a guide isn't holding their hand. And a lot of the time, people who say their first time through was no problem, you find out after a little bit of pressing that they grinded a ton. In fact, veteran JRPG players are usually the most grind-oriented players because they started playing videogames when they were really young and the only solution they could think of to overcoming obstacles was to grind, and they never grew out of that playstyle. This is all my anecdotal evidence from being on internet message boards for way too long and you can't change my mind.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:24
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The White Dragon posted:personally i prefer to make things that are easy by design rather than hard by design. especially when you think everything is easy, because you know how it all works, it's much safer to err heavily on the side of caution. the rage quit case is one of the most unfortunate things you can do to a player. if a game is too easy, they might become bored, but boredom is a passive and fairly neutral response; a rage quit is an active decision because they decided your difficulty curve is unbearable, and that gives the player an extremely negative impression. I kinda learned this the hard way in the goon jams. People really do prefer the easier stuff where they keep going by inertia.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:26
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gigglefeimer posted:JRPG players frequently get destroyed by JRPGs when a guide isn't holding their hand. And a lot of the time, people who say their first time through was no problem, you find out after a little bit of pressing that they grinded a ton. In fact, veteran JRPG players are usually the most grind-oriented players because they started playing videogames when they were really young and the only solution they could think of to overcoming obstacles was to grind, and they never grew out of that playstyle. This made me remember a lot of the guides on GameFAQs back in the day had their level recommendations for bosses set extremely high. Like “alright for the AirBuster fight you should naturally be around level 21, etc etc”. Young me was really thrown off by it, and made me think I was consistently under leveled when in reality these guys are just bad at the game.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:29
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when i was 8 i didn't understand grinding at all. when i played ff4, i ran from every enemy i didn't like to fight, i got to the World of Monsters without Float and reached Asura without Wall. i beat Odin by timing jump against Zanmato, and i beat Ahriman by casting Slow and Stop on myself to desynchronize the doom counter. it's no surprise that i think hosed up and abstract strategies are normal Elentor posted:I kinda learned this the hard way in the goon jams. People really do prefer the easier stuff where they keep going by inertia. poo poo man i erred on the side of what i thought was easy in dragon game a lot of people still thought it was really hard sometimes! i find that players don't bother to learn how to micromanage their vertical descent, and that the most frequent complaint about difficulty was levied against attacks that require you to do that to dodge them. it's soooooooo hard to predict which skills your players will pay attention to and master. like i'm not angry about it or anything but it's definitely a learning experience in terms of what players will and won't do versus your expectations. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 20:29
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HD DAD posted:This made me remember a lot of the guides on GameFAQs back in the day had their level recommendations for bosses set extremely high. Like “alright for the AirBuster fight you should naturally be around level 21, etc etc”. Young me was really thrown off by it, and made me think I was consistently under leveled when in reality these guys are just bad at the game. You're absolutely right I forgot about those old guides. Written by bad players, for bad players. And those kinds of things influenced how players viewed the genre. Even the guides would recommend grinding spots, and fail to mention boss weaknesses or the value of any ability that doesn't directly alter HP.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:39
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When I was a kid, I lent my ff6 cartridge to a friend. He ended up beating it, but the craziest part was he told me when he did the fanatics' tower, he only only cast life 3 on one character. He proceeded down the tower with one character and ran out of MP / MP items, so he got down the tower having enemies die by casting spells on him and having them reflect back. He didn't know what osmose was.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:41
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The White Dragon posted:poo poo man i erred on the side of what i thought was easy in dragon game a lot of people still thought it was really hard sometimes! i find that players don't bother to learn how to micromanage their vertical descent, and that the most frequent complaint about difficulty was levied against attacks that require you to do that to dodge them. it's soooooooo hard to predict which skills your players will pay attention to and master. For what is worth I really liked the difficulty curve of your game, and the final boss in particular gave me a lot of fun.
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Oct 4, 2018 20:42
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My younger cousin was once telling me how hard a time he was having against some boss in the middle of Kingdom Hearts 2 a few years after it came out, and asked me if I could help him get past it. Well, I pick up the controller and go in the menu to see how he's got things set up, and am immediately bombarded by every single tutorial the game can throw at me, because he not once opened up the menu to change anything and probably didn't know it existed. "You know this isn't just an action game, right?"
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Oct 4, 2018 20:48
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Phantasium posted:My younger cousin was once telling me how hard a time he was having against some boss in the middle of Kingdom Hearts 2 a few years after it came out, and asked me if I could help him get past it. Well, I pick up the controller and go in the menu to see how he's got things set up, and am immediately bombarded by every single tutorial the game can throw at me, because he not once opened up the menu to change anything and probably didn't know it existed. Somehow managing to not press the menu button in the first ten hours of a game is a whole new level of impressive
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Oct 4, 2018 23:41
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Ventana posted:The reason people figure out that Commando's build Chain duration and Ravagers build chain bar is because the game itself explicitly tells you.... 1. Yes I know and for some players thats about all they pick up. 2. They try to tell you this and it still doesn't click for a subset of players. 3. I agree that you can get through at least most the game with those (I can't say more without having gone through all of it myself), but some of those basics are apparently not conveyed in a way that people picked up on them or made to not seem useful enough still potentially. (And for me particularly I made it through as far as I did without too many problems. I didn't have an issue with not figuring out how to play the game decently, my own issues were with not enjoying the gameplay, most the characters, or the story leading me to quit it just before leaving cocoon and not looking back.) 4. I never said it hid information but that it doesn't tell you all the information, there are people who play that game at a far higher level then I ever engaged with it in and I've seen some of those. And the game makes very little effort to teach you that you can get to that level. I'd include launching in that since that's the point about launching I was making, there are some impressive things you can do with it that it doesn't help you to uncover. Another one is the extra bar you get for paradigm swapping frequently. 5. Triple sentinel isn't necessary no. Considering how far I made it while barely using one. The point was that it felt pointless to use them for me due to the lack of control of everyone else to prevent them from deciding to lob themselves into attacks taunted at the sentinel due to the mechanics of the game. Due to that same reason it felt like if I ever encountered a scenario where I'd need to be sentinel I'd have to swap everyone to it so they could all be defended for the attack they are warning me is coming. 6. I never said that 13 itself doesn't tell you weaknesses to debuffs(and it does in fact make it far quicker to search for them if you just set 2-3 sabs to work for example on any random enemy to test for themselves) I'd stated that final fantasy games trained people to think they were worthless. As Elentor stated earlier, there is a boss with a weakness to paralysis(or at least not a immunity) but there is no reasonable way the player would discover this with no tips and a immunity list a mile long for every other negative status in the game. This is a frequent occurrence in FF games, there might be one that's good against them but good luck figuring it out and in some cases they are only vulnerable to it because you literally don't get access to that status yet. This makes debuffs in most games feel like they are meant to screw over the player not help them. Mixed with times where they just don't work at all. (blindness in ff6. Also known as the cool shades debuff that does nothing.) Leading to a perception that Sab must not be very good for some players who are more likely to lean towards Syn or Med when they need help dealing with some enemy rather then potentially entirely negating them for awhile.
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Oct 5, 2018 00:48
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Chapter 14 Noct is 10 years older? Dude looks like he stopped shaving for a month and that's it.
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Oct 5, 2018 02:35
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It's fine, the other party members are almost completely unrecognisable
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Oct 5, 2018 02:42
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Kingtheninja posted:Chapter 14 Noct is 10 years older? Dude looks like he stopped shaving for a month and that's it. he's like keanu reeves ok
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Oct 5, 2018 03:10
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Kingtheninja posted:Chapter 14 Noct is 10 years older? Dude looks like he stopped shaving for a month and that's it. Look, character models cost money and they spent it all on the Cup Noodle hat.
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Oct 5, 2018 03:25
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Mega64 posted:Nice Merton  Elentor posted:This is a really interesting subject. As every game designer likes to put it, game designers want to protect players from themselves because players will usually take the path of least resistance. But this only tells you half the story - consider the concept of bosses, for example. It is expected that a boss is a jump in difficulty from the average enemy. So the difficulty curve of a game has spikes and resets. Think of the average encounter difficulty up until the boss, and they go like this: This is also one of the reasons why the DS remake of FF4 is so bad. Random encounter (and boss) difficulty is all over the place. You get bosses who are chumps, or have gently caress You mechanics like Leviathan and CPU (guard within 0.1 seconds of the fight starting or wipe to tidal wave/laser storm if you aren't overleveled), and random encounters that can burst you down almost immediately if enemies act first.
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Oct 5, 2018 03:30
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Elentor posted:For the majority of the game, bosses are immune to most debuffs. So let's assume you're a very patient player who's interested in the game system and engaged in it, and you're willing to test stuff out on the Boss that takes 5x Critical Damage and can be one-shot instead. You'll quickly find out that most bosses shrug off your debuffs, or they're not clearly defined, or sometimes they're downright bugged and don't work. JRPGs don't communicate their math very well either Indeed, JRPGs tend to operate on intuitive level. I don't remember any JRPG revealing any of its formulas. Like in FF13 you have magic stat, what does it really does? Does 70 magic means +70% damage/healing? That's sad because JRPGs are one of the few genres with interesting and bearable combat systems that feel elegant. Say what you want about all those Baldur's Gates but in those games you can kite enemies, throw cloudkill into the room and close door and all that jazz. On a casual level you feel like you're opportunist using game system and when you're serious about the system you realize that half of things in those vast games are useless. Meanwhile something like FFX has beautiful combat model with proper planning and strategizing, you only start getting it in Western RPGs after people start copying XCOM instead of throwing variables at people. Also on status effects: I like good systems where status effects have their place, resistance to them is rare and explicit. I think earlier FF where extremely bad about it not even telling you that someone is immune, just saying MISS - should I try again or is it useless?.. It's nice when status effects have limited effect. Like when there is a status effect for skipping next action, but bosses get several per turn so you can't stun-lock them, stuff like that. In FF too often status effect means win button in many circumstances like throwing Berserk/Silence on a mage and it persists forever. So your single action prevents dozen of enemy actions. It's balanced by the fact that you can't know if it will work, but if you do now then it becomes trivial. Knowledge is valued much more more than quick thinking here.
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Oct 5, 2018 09:05
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ilitarist posted:In FF too often status effect means win button in many circumstances like throwing Berserk/Silence on a mage and it persists forever. FF is the one series where you absolutely do not want to cast silence or berserk on mages because they often have insanely high physical attack as an rear end in a top hat gotcha
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Oct 5, 2018 09:08
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