Sunswipe posted:

Really? Because I'd say "Rot in prison forever" is a reasonable sentence for someone who drugged and anally raped a teenage girl. It's not up to the criminal to decide what sentence is appropriate.

Gally posted:

I've had a lot of bad days and yet somehow never started spewing racial slurs.

Araenna posted:

You forgot about how he married his wife's adopted daughter he helped raise, and raped his daughter with her by blood when she was a child.



Yes, abusers will hold things over your head that either weren't actually bad in the first place, or for way longer than is warranted. That doesn't mean that all people who don't forgive are abusers. Sometimes people do unforgivable things, or at least things that make you not want to associate with them any more. Cutting off ties with someone isn't the same as holding it over their heads. It's not abusive to not want anything to do with your homophobic parent. Yes, even if they changed. If you're constantly holding it over your partner that they cheated once 5 years ago, and control them with the guilt, that's abusive. If you leave them for it, and won't take them back because of it 5 years later, that is not. Even if you do forgive them. You can forgive someone and still want nothing to do with them. No one owes anyone a relationship of any sort.

Also, maybe it's easier to see these comedians as sympathetic when you've never been the one that is targeted by this lovely behavior. Things like Tracy Morgan saying he'd kill a gay son, or Chapelle talking about "trannies" tricking people into sex actively hurts people. It normalizes discrimination. It makes horrible struggles people go through into jokes. It makes me unable to watch anything without that fear in the back of my head, that at any point someone is going to make a transphobic joke. Will the people around me all laugh? Will my friends look to me to react? All while I'm sitting there, questioning once again, what if everyone is right, and it's just my mental illness making me think I'm trans, and I am a disgusting abomination?

Can you imagine what it's like to be reminded that you live in a country where there are people who still think you deserve to be killed for heckling them? One that will defend someone who says that, and claim it was just a bad day? One that, 12 years later, still will have people who will believe that someone can say something like that and not actually be racist, it's just a bad day. Saying someone should be lynched isn't something anyone could accidentally come out with on a bad day. It's only something someone who is deeply, hatefully racist would say, because he truly believes it.

Gaunab posted:

Like four pages of discussion on how long it takes to be forgiven for racism.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

I'd agree with you, actually. I'm not saying the plea bargain was right I'm saying that breaking a plea bargain isn't ok. If I were that judge there's no way I'd offer a light plea bargain in the first place.

Wheat Loaf posted:

I think Mia Farrow is still a defender of Polanski to this day.

Krispy Wafer posted:

Judges don't offer plea bargains. The DA does it and the judge signs off if he or she thinks it's fair. In this case the judge had every right to revoke the plea bargain because new evidence was presented. The concern I think was how it was presented and if another lawyer violated the law in talking to the judge outside of proper channels. Wikipedia says the evidence that disturbed the judge were photographs of Polanski hugging on presumably underaged girls.

fruit BOO!ts posted:

So the Allen thing is a little tricky to me because Soon-Yi adamantly holds to this day that Allen was never a father figure, so as creepy as that whole situation is I don’t know if the “raising his future wife” charge is as true as it is salacious.

Then you have her and Moses claiming that Woody wasn’t the abusive one but Mia, so at this point I’m not really what to conclude other than that Woody and Mia are both terrible people.

MrUnderbridge posted:

People made Polish jokes after tyool 1980? I remember they were a common thing in the 70's, (Even on TV shows - Wojo on Barney Miller, for example{thread relevance!}) but then they pretty much disappeared from the national stage.

Was it a local thing, or people stuck in the past?

fruit BOO!ts posted:

So the Allen thing is a little tricky to me because Soon-Yi adamantly holds to this day that Allen was never a father figure, so as creepy as that whole situation is I don’t know if the “raising his future wife” charge is as true as it is salacious.

Then you have her and Moses claiming that Woody wasn’t the abusive one but Mia, so at this point I’m not really what to conclude other than that Woody and Mia are both terrible people.

M_Sinistrari posted:

Only thing I remember him in other than Seinfeld was that movie Wierd Al Yankovic did.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Sarcopenia posted:

Mia Farrow can be a terrible mother AND Woody Allen could have sexually abused his daughter. One does not exclude the other.
I honestly think she was abusive to her kids and favored some of them (namely Ronan/Satchel).

spog posted:

There's been a bunch of interviews with all the kids and it does seem likely that he was much less creepy that Farrow claimed and that the media story we all know as the truth may be almost entirely fabricated.


(Well, a 55 year old dating a 21 year old is still as creepy as gently caress)

Mister Kingdom posted:

I first saw him on Fridays (an SNL knockoff) where his best character was a psychotic kid playing with Army men.

Gaunab posted:

Like four pages of discussion on how long it takes to be forgiven for racism.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

My favorites are Lewis black, George Carlin, and all the ones that joke about food. How often does that sort of thing happen? Feel like I missed something along the way now. Or maybe I just stick to cynical old dudes and food and haven't seen much of the rest. How bad is it? I don't think I've ever watched Tracy Morgan for example.

I wonder if in this case if it was just a one off thing. I won't ever say it was acceptable behavior because it wasn't. I'm not going to defend it I just want to know what you consider proper atonement or if you think that's impossible. Granted it probably also has wishful thinking on my part. The guy that played Kramer can't be THAT racist, can he?

Do you believe fixing the damage is possible? If he's willing to own up to it and mend his ways how do you think he should go about doing it? That's what I'm wondering about, really. How does one undo the damage? If he's willing to change how does he prove it?

The worst I've experienced is people treating me like I'm stupid or acting shocked at my education level when they find out I'm of polish descent. Mostly when I point out that I don't like dumb pole jokes and ask people to not tell them they stop. Mostly. I won't claim to have gone through anything of that level because I haven't. I don't think I've ever heard a comedian even mention that demographic.

spog posted:

There's been a bunch of interviews with all the kids and it does seem likely that he was much less creepy that Farrow claimed and that the media story we all know as the truth may be almost entirely fabricated.


(Well, a 55 year old dating a 21 year old is still as creepy as gently caress)

Araenna posted:

Last I heard his son thinks he's a child-raping piece of poo poo for raping his one sister and marrying the other one. The daughter also still maintains that he raped her. So I'm not sure what interviews you're talking about.

Toshimo posted:

Heads up, this country is pretty lovely about letting anyone atone for anything ever, especially in the social media age.

I've worked with felons post-incarceration trying to piece their lives together after their debt to society has auspiciously been paid. For a non-rich and especially non-white person, a felony conviction can amount to something close to a life sentence, because people will just not let that poo poo go.

Yes, we should let people have a second chance if they actually are remorseful and are working to fix their problem.

No, we shouldn't just shrug off non-apologies and repeated bad behavior.

If Michael Richards said some terrible, hateful things, yeah, he has to own that and figure out how to fix himself and make amends. Should we just brush it off and ignore it? No. Should we tell him he can't ever do stand-up again? No. Do I ever want to see him again? No. But, if his non-racist humor was something people liked, and he tries to fix his issues, gently caress yeah, let people enjoy what they enjoy. If noted unfunny hack Jerry Seinfeld wants to vouch for him so he can get a headline show somewhere, that's on the both of them.

Telling people they can't ever fix poo poo when they've hosed up is ridiculous. And no, it's not just racism. But, yes, we should be holding them to a standard of "You actually have to accept responsibility for your fuckups and show actual good-faith effort to make good, and not just throwing money at it".

PS: I'm still mad every time I think about the fact that the "local boy made good" Kevin Clash, the man behind Elmo, was abusing teenage boys. He's deflected and justified at every turn and it makes me even madder that Sesame Street was complicit. That dude can loving rot in hell with Cosby and Woody Allen and John Wayne.

Pick posted:

Well if we're going there, I still think Jeffrey Jones did a great job in Ravenous and I'll never stop enjoying that film.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Speaking of which, one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen on TV had to be Jerry appearing on Letterman for a regular interview, then the Richards thing happened about 3-4 days before it was scheduled. Jerry has Richards appear by satellite and Richards tries what seems like a very earnest apology (although just as possibly a last ditch effort to save what's left of his career). At one point the studio audience starts laughing at something Richards says and Seinfeld has to chide them that this isn't a bit, it's not funny it's serious.

I seriously feel like not just Richards' career died there, but Seinfeld's also. Yeah, Comedians in Cars Getting Suppositories still exists and gets views and I'm sure Jerry likes doing it, but I find it hard to believe it's what he prefers to be doing.

For the 3 of you who haven't seen it; this starts out innocuously enough, and gets weird in a hurry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwBoVZh1ruQ

Also, I'm imagining Wayne meeting Allen. That would uh not go well.

Sarcopenia posted:

Moses Farrow has been very outspoken about how absolutely horrible he thinks his mother is and how he supports Woody Allen and chastising her for basically trying to portray Soon-Yi as a mentally handicapped child.

Solice Kirsk posted:

I still listen to that movie's soundtrack every once in awhile. My friends and I also say "It's lonely being a cannibal" as an inside joke.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Speaking of which, one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen on TV had to be Jerry appearing on Letterman for a regular interview, then the Richards thing happened about 3-4 days before it was scheduled. Jerry has Richards appear by satellite and Richards tries what seems like a very earnest apology (although just as possibly a last ditch effort to save what's left of his career). At one point the studio audience starts laughing at something Richards says and Seinfeld has to chide them that this isn't a bit, it's not funny it's serious.

I seriously feel like not just Richards' career died there, but Seinfeld's also. Yeah, Comedians in Cars Getting Suppositories still exists and gets views and I'm sure Jerry likes doing it, but I find it hard to believe it's what he prefers to be doing.

For the 3 of you who haven't seen it; this starts out innocuously enough, and gets weird in a hurry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwBoVZh1ruQ

Also, I'm imagining Wayne meeting Allen. That would uh not go well.

Last Chance posted:

God drat, I don't think I've ever, ever been able to make it through this interview 100%. I just can't do it

Last Chance posted:

God drat, I don't think I've ever, ever been able to make it through this interview 100%. I just can't do it

Araenna posted:

Ronan is the one who is against him it looks like. Have any other kids spoken out? I'm willing to yield on the Dylan stuff being as cut and dried as I'd remembered it, but he's still a creeper who likes girls way too young.

Also, I was wrong. Dylan wasn't by blood, but was adopted by him.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

The funny thing is I tuned into Letterman that night casually not knowing what I was getting into. Boy howdy.

I bet Letterman was more uncomfortable during the Madonna and Crispin Glover moments, though.

Megillah Gorilla posted:

The Crispin Glover moment is the one where he came out tripping balls and tried to fight him, right?

What did Madonna do?

Megillah Gorilla posted:

The Crispin Glover moment is the one where he came out tripping balls and tried to fight him, right?

What did Madonna do?

Megillah Gorilla posted:

He was probably thinking of Disenchantment.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Yeah. He's also carrying a briefcase open to a thing that catalogues eye diseases, I think? Somebody on this site said he was just playing his character from a movie he was promoting, but Glover's got such a rep as a genuine weirdo that I'm not sure that's the case.

Henchman of Santa posted:

According to Wikipedia he was in character for a movie that was in development at the time and didn’t even come out until 4 years later

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Apparently he's quite the character..... actor.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Yeah. He's also carrying a briefcase open to a thing that catalogues eye diseases, I think? Somebody on this site said he was just playing his character from a movie he was promoting, but Glover's got such a rep as a genuine weirdo that I'm not sure that's the case.

He pretty much covered Madonna, although I think she swore a few times as well?

Drew Barrymore flashed him during a less than great period for her personally, but that came off as more of a funny thing to the uninitiated. I don't know if she was relapsing or if she was just struggling mentally, or even just feeling cheeky.

Aesop Poprock posted:

It’s like the worst of the newer seasons of Futurama mixed with the Jockey episode of the simpsons. Every joke in the 4 episodes I watched was an exact ripoff of stuff they’d already done in those two shows with roughly half the heart of either