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Mans posted:how do you even survive in submarine hits? Ron Jeremy posted:Compartmentalization. Prayer. Or some (experimental) device that allows you to breathe underwater or simply helps you rise to the surface oh by the way I hopeyoudon'trisetothesurfacetoofastoops! Oh and the surface better not be coated with oil and/or on fire. And you don't freeze to death waiting for rescue.
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Oct 5, 2018 03:06
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Were any submarines were sunk in a quasi surrender situation where the boat was caught dead to rights by a destroyer and everyone was allowed on a life raft before their boat was scuttled or something of the sort? Even a few of those would skew the statistics way upward.
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Oct 5, 2018 03:14
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Bip Roberts posted:Were any submarines were sunk in a quasi surrender situation where the boat was caught dead to rights by a destroyer and everyone was allowed on a life raft before their boat was scuttled or something of the sort? Even a few of those would skew the statistics way upward. If a sub managed to survive to surrender, yeah, they'd usually capture the crew and scuttle the sub. Edit: Or, say, a sub being attacked by aircraft. If they were disabled, they'd abandon ship, but a plane might continue to attack the ship itself in order to sink it, even if the crew is safely out.
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Oct 5, 2018 03:15
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Bip Roberts posted:Were any submarines were sunk in a quasi surrender situation where the boat was caught dead to rights by a destroyer and everyone was allowed on a life raft before their boat was scuttled or something of the sort? Even a few of those would skew the statistics way upward. Yeah, the median may be a lot different than the mean in this situation. IIRC, sub losses mainly came from either the sub getting sunk outright or, being forced to surface rather than get sunk with all hands. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 03:33
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Even if a sub surfaces and the crew abandons, it does not lessen the risk of death by the crew. You have to brave the harsh atlantic conditions, and rescue may be difficult or impossible if you aren't supplied, found, or picked up. And on at least one occasion, ships were advised *not* to pick up survivors because it put the would-be rescue ship at risk of a sub attack itself.
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Oct 5, 2018 04:05
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Bip Roberts posted:Were any submarines were sunk in a quasi surrender situation where the boat was caught dead to rights by a destroyer and everyone was allowed on a life raft before their boat was scuttled or something of the sort? Even a few of those would skew the statistics way upward. Yes. My grandfather was involved in one of these. He was on a corvette and, I believe, his ship and another -a destroyer? - forced a submarine to surrender. The other ship took the crew on board as captives and scuttled the submarine. I am informed that the officers on the submarine and the destroyer became friends and stayed in contact for the rest of their lives. I’ve got it written down somewhere.
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Oct 5, 2018 04:16
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Going on some of this grandpa chat, my Opa served in the Kriegsmarine on a U-boat. According to what I remember him telling me when he was alive, he said his boat didn't get the surrender notification until like 2 weeks after VE, and afterwards spent time in Australia. There any U-boats that roughly match that? I've tried looking it up online, but it's either not easily accessible in English, or I'm an idiot who can't search good
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Oct 5, 2018 05:11
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How the hell does a German U-boat end up in Australia in 1945? There were, what, maybe half a dozen left of the Monsoon Group or whatever it was called by the end of the war? Only 41 were ever sent towards the Pacific and the vast majority of them were sunk or returned to Europe. E: Upon further reading, of those 41, most were sunk, 6 were taken by the Japanese after VE Day, and the rest had returned to Europe or surrendered before the end of the war. I can't find any evidence for any German submarine ending the war in Australia. E2: The closest thing I can find is U-862, a member of the Monsoon Group that was the only German submarine to actually enter the Pacific Ocean (the rest only made it as far as the Indian Ocean). From December of 1944 to February of 1945, she went on patrol and hunted down a few mechant ships around the coast of Australia and even got as far as New Zealand before turning back, and by VE Day was back in Jakarta where she was pressed into service by the Japanese and sat in port as I-502 until VJ Day. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 05:22
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Crazycryodude posted:How the hell does a German U-boat end up in Australia in 1945? There were, what, maybe half a dozen left of the Monsoon Group or whatever it was called by the end of the war? Only 41 were ever sent towards the Pacific and the vast majority of them were sunk or returned to Europe. The crews of 181 and 862 were left in Singapore when VE day happened and the ships were turned over to Japan, where they stayed until the British took back the city, and they were shipped to Britain as prisoners. I don't know if they stopped in Australia during the way back to Britain, and i can't imagine they would have, but that's the closest I can think.
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Oct 5, 2018 05:45
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Yeah that's the only way I can think of to make it even vaguely fit, but both of them were parked in port on VE Day, not wandering around at sea for two weeks before getting the news. Either Opa was on some hyper-secret mission to smuggle Hitler clones into Atlantis that's been purged from history, or he was just making poo poo up/misremembering. Not that that's at all unusual, especially decades after the fact. If I had to guess, assuming he actually was in the Monsoon Group and actually ended the war in the Asia, the reality is he was on either U-182, U-862, U-219, or U-195, and somehow stopped off in Australia for some reason on the prisoner transport back to the British Isles. Which would still be weird, but not impossible. E: Or, comedy option, he was one of the crew members from U-195 that escaped capture and were living in Malang until the Dutch tracked them down in 1947. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 05:52
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Could be one of the uboats that went to Argentina instead of surrendering. I can see the captain not telling anyone that the war was actually over while fleeing, avoids awkward questions from the crew.
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Oct 5, 2018 12:43
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I think any German going on a UBoat cruise in Winter 1944 would be fully well aware the war was coming to an end - food shortages, fuel shortages, shortages of common consumer goods and the vast number of people they would know who were dead, maimed, or crippled by the war. And the vast number of people they had never seen before fleeing into Western Germany as things in Eastern Germany got worse and worse.The end of both WW2 and WW1 in Germany has always fascinated me because the disconnect between the leadership saying "We can still win!" and the people getting by through burning their furniture for warmth and eating turnips and mystery meat for dinner.
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Oct 5, 2018 15:00
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Yeah, in spring there were "we're bravely taking new territory near Smolensk" and in autumn it changed "we're bravely taking new territory at Vistula line" .
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Oct 5, 2018 19:05
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I mean, I was 12 when he was telling me about it, and that was 20ish years ago, so there's that whole factor too. Maybe he just happened to go to Australia after the war or something, but he was adamant he was out for a couple weeks after VE Day, as that seemed to be a major focus of his story. Are there resources to find his service record anywhere? The Reich was notorious for it's records, I assume they'd have been kept somewhere after the war
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Oct 5, 2018 23:40
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   This seems to be a much larger invasion force today!   We hit another troop ship.  I love sinking ships called Victory. It's so ironic.  Leave my ships alone!   The carriers signal their return.   It's nice to have the carriers back.  Looking good already!
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Oct 6, 2018 06:31
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That's a.. Big troopship. Nice bag.
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Oct 6, 2018 06:53
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Nice to see the Judies (D4Y) out dropping bombs. Those old Vals have earned their retirement
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Oct 6, 2018 07:21
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Also how go the repairs to your Battleships? Are they still going through the shipyards or are they just in reserve at Rabaul to sortie if there's a good target? Not seen them in awhile.
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Oct 6, 2018 07:23
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Is a 500kg bomb a bit too much for an LCT?
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Oct 6, 2018 09:39
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Yes. But you gently caress with the dick you have.
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Oct 6, 2018 11:09
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mercenarynuker posted:I mean, I was 12 when he was telling me about it, and that was 20ish years ago, so there's that whole factor too. Maybe he just happened to go to Australia after the war or something, but he was adamant he was out for a couple weeks after VE Day, as that seemed to be a major focus of his story. Are there resources to find his service record anywhere? The Reich was notorious for it's records, I assume they'd have been kept somewhere after the war I'm sure there must be. I know on the US side I've heard you have to officially request the war records for Donald Duck. And that in genealogy in general family members who served are the easiest to get info about. You may need to contact someone who makes German searches their day job bit I'd be surprised if you couldn't find him in the records.
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Oct 6, 2018 11:35
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A lot of German records from WWII were lost or destroyed, but I'd recommend going here https://www.dd-wast.de/de/startseite.html It maintains old Wehrmacht records, and you can request service records from there.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:52
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   I can't starve them out, I can't burn them out – lets try blowing them up.  STILL only one kill!  Not plot armour for these guys!  It's become clear I can't bait the Chungking forces into attacking, so I'm going to have to send everyone back in! 
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Oct 6, 2018 18:16
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6 October 1944 USS Seahorse torpedoes the Japanese escort No. 21 off Luzon. In the Gulf of Salonika, British destroyers sink the German torpedo boat TA-37 (ex-Italian Gladio).
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Oct 6, 2018 19:25
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Danann posted:Is a 500kg bomb a bit too much for an LCT? 250t (approximate) ship, so yes
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Oct 6, 2018 22:58
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Can you still edit the save so that there's a more reasonable 200k troops instead of 400k troops in Chungking? I missed most of the discussion of whether or not to reduce the Chungking garrison, and my vote is to reduce the numbers so that it is still a fight but one that is winnable instead of a horrible mess. And thematically it makes sense because Chungking has been shelled and bombed for a year while fully cut off from a completely occupied China. The 'quirk' of replenishing Chinese troops in Chungking and the terrain bonus just makes invasion impossible. My vote is also to send the KB to hunt down CVEs so that's how I roll. edit: and I think I asked this question before: Weather is an important part of WitP. Does the game follow the original timeline weather? How are tropical storms represented in game? How many hexes would be used to represent a large tropical storm? CannonFodder fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Oct 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2018 05:30
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I'm kind of on the fence on editing the thing since its kind of an anticlimatic cop out but on the other hand its so stupid a series of mechanics that itd be awful even outside an ostentatiously simulation based game
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Oct 7, 2018 05:41
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Realistically the city would've been starved out by now. Not made into an impegnetrable fortress. This is a bit beyond game mechanics as a hiccup when it lets half a million men hold out essentially indefinitely with no damage to the city's infrastructure, no loss of combat effectiveness from supplies, and near instantaneous replacement of losses. At the very least from being surrounded for well over a year and under constant bombardment would have leveled the city and obliterated most of the infrastructure. Instead they're still in top fighting condition and have hundreds of planes based out of operational fields. that's not an AI issue, that's a gamebreak.
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Oct 7, 2018 06:08
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that and the "correct" way to deal with it is absurdly gamey in itself and makes no sense from any simulationist perspective. we must ignore the chinese heartland and all their assets to take a single backwater city! unless i guess its a simulation of that city being a secret route to the skaven underempire or something but then it really should just be blowing itself up by this point
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Oct 7, 2018 06:14
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Tiler Kiwi posted:that and the "correct" way to deal with it is absurdly gamey in itself and makes no sense from any simulationist perspective. we must ignore the chinese heartland and all their assets to take a single backwater city! A game of BloodBowl to decide the fate of Chungking would be appropriate. Both team Humans, best of 7 series.
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Oct 7, 2018 16:42
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  We mess up another landing craft.  I crack the forts at Manus.   Hunting my sub hunters is a cocky, but apparently effective tactic.  The Essex is closing on Guam – a Guam I have been packing with strike craft!  The afternoon strike bounces off the CAP.  We take them on as they attack.  Our losses will be much easier to replace.  I've looked at disbanding the troops here, and I can't, I could set to no replacements, but the AI would switch it back. I can order a shock attack however, so once all my troops are in place, I will do that!  So of course the carriers are heading north to Guam – we are going to be reducing their return strike capabilities and may have a chance to sink another fleet carrier!  If you were better at your job, you would still be alive!
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Oct 7, 2018 18:11
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Tiler Kiwi posted:that and the "correct" way to deal with it is absurdly gamey in itself and makes no sense from any simulationist perspective. we must ignore the chinese heartland and all their assets to take a single backwater city! TBF, Chongqing is a pretty major city going back a couple thousand years. At the time of the start of WW2 it had nearly a million people and a reasonable amount of industry (for China). And I can see the place being a fortress given how long they've had to create barricades out of rubble. What you're completely right about is the combat effectiveness, numbers, and morale of the troops (and civilians!) in the city after so long.
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Oct 7, 2018 18:20
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7 October 1944 Hey, remember all those Dutch subs that were the hope/plague of the early game with their "actually working torpedoes" and stuff? Zwaardvisch torpedoed the minelayer Ikitsushima in the Java Sea.
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Oct 7, 2018 19:00
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Is Essex sailing by herself?
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Oct 7, 2018 19:07
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 Catch up time! Part 28 Part 29 Part 30 Part 31 Part 32 Part 33
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Oct 7, 2018 19:42
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:7 October 1944 The day before Zwaardvisch sank a German U-boot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_6_October_1944 and 22 of its crew were set free due to lack of space to keep them prisoner.
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Oct 7, 2018 19:58
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CeeJee posted:The day before Zwaardvisch sank a German U-boot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_6_October_1944 and 22 of its crew were set free due to lack of space to keep them prisoner. So how did the Dutch keep their subs operational? Did they use spares etc. from the other Allied nations?
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Oct 7, 2018 20:03
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Pershing posted:So how did the Dutch keep their subs operational? Did they use spares etc. from the other Allied nations? Yes. After the surrender of the Netherlands, the Dutch ships and stuff were under foreign command. The Zwaardvisch operated out of Freemantle, Australia, and was first under the British Far Eastern Fleet, and then the US Fleet.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:25
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Epicurius posted:Yes. After the surrender of the Netherlands, the Dutch ships and stuff were under foreign command. The Zwaardvisch operated out of Freemantle, Australia, and was first under the British Far Eastern Fleet, and then the US Fleet. So did they have a stores stockpile or did the Allies just make new equipment to keep the Dutch subs operational?
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Oct 7, 2018 21:52
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Pershing posted:So did they have a stores stockpile or did the Allies just make new equipment to keep the Dutch subs operational? Bit of both. The Zwaardvisch was built by the Brits in '42 and given to the Dutch to "go hog wild"
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Oct 7, 2018 22:30
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