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Megasabin posted:Is there any consequence to piping oil very long distances? Is there a reason to barrel it and put it in trains instead? Short answer: Practically no consequences to piping Long answer: Maybe at some insane distance where it's inconvenient to setup pumps and pipes all the way from the oilfield. Or if you have a good existing rail network.
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Oct 7, 2018 18:14
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Barrelling was ok for a while because of the pocket dimension, but they added a deeper pocket dimension to the oil tanker so even if you want to train it its not going to be by barrel. Has kind of just pigeon holed barrels to when you want a pocket liquid based outpost you don't plan to send any future liquids to, like just setting it up for 30 hours of flamethrower fuel or putting an initial charge into a coal to heavies unit (or the hybrid of the both where you charge the coal to heavies and use it for the flamethrower fuel).
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Oct 7, 2018 18:20
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Might as well start with trains because eventually you're gonna be shipping oil from far away and that way it's easy to plug in, because redesigning a working oil processing setup is just the worst.
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Oct 7, 2018 18:49
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Megasabin posted:Is there any consequence to piping oil very long distances? Is there a reason to barrel it and put it in trains instead? setting up trains is more fun than setting up a very long pipe Bhodi posted:If you're sperging hard and you hate blueprints, just play seablock. There aren't really any good ones that I've found for that. I launched a rocket with a pal and declared victory instead of the space x thing, and you should too. i'm currently seablocking and have almost finished setting up MilSci, just need to setup the red circuits edit: setup setup set up setup
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Oct 7, 2018 19:14
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Megasabin posted:Is there any consequence to piping oil very long distances? Is there a reason to barrel it and put it in trains instead? sometimes you forget that you did it, and then you accidentally mark it for deconstruction and you run out of oil. 
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Oct 7, 2018 19:17
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Dr. Stab posted:The flow rate of a pipe goes down the longer it is. And when it starts to matter, drop in a pump.
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Oct 7, 2018 19:41
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Personally I prefer barrels and train cars to long pipes. I don't like the pipe system at all, mainly because if you gently caress up and accidentally connect two pipes with different content you end up with a clusterfuck that usually results in having to tear down a lot of pipe to fix it.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:58
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Attach a tank with a pump for every mixed liquid in your pipe system to flush things out, obviously after disconnecting the inputs and other storage.
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Oct 7, 2018 22:42
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Day 3 I have a car! I spend most of my time smashing into things, though the big trunk size is amazingly useful. I'm getting oil! I set up a train even though the oilfield isn't too far away. I ended up building the start of a second refinery area, intended to replace the first little one I built. I'm a bit nervous here, as I don't really know how oil, pipes, trains, and more work with each other or expand in the future. I may even start again for a 3rd time to ensure I'm giving myself enough space for expansion. I put in the console command: /c game.player.surface.peaceful_mode = false twice, after the prompt about disabling achievements. No effect so far. I want to be attacked, drat it. I used this setup from the start, and its common throughout my base. It isn't very space efficient, and I could stand to make better use of the output belts, but the basic design is working well so far. The red PCBs are the last ingredient I needed to make blue science jars. Next step is setting up belts to deliver all 3 ingredients automatically, which won't be hard because a major vertical thoroughfare is right there, though its getting full already.  Nothing special, just stuff moving around. Those splitters and belts will change as my needs change. Those ghost belts are just rough lines showing where I intend to put... something, later on. A reminder not to build on top of them.  My first experiment with oil. It got me enough plastic to start up red PBC production, but I didn't like the location. I'd need to pass through a lot of stuff to get the finished products to my major factory areas.  My setup on the other side of my base, adjacent to major thoroughfares. My "row" building system makes me worried though, as it currently goes storage -> refining -> processing and then whatever comes after that. Having the rows go up means it will interfere eventually with my planned expansion areas. So I might tear this up and build it so it descends, away from my base instead. Oil and its products looks complicated so I expect this area to become a zoo. I'll keep it away from my normal networks until I understand it a bit better. 
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Oct 7, 2018 23:29
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I like barreling two fluids: lubricant and sulfuric acid. Lubricant on basic principle and sulfuric acid for quick and dirty "manual delivery of acid" setups for uranium, especially early.
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Oct 7, 2018 23:36
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Count Roland posted:Day 3 Just a heads up because its a common newbie mistake; but if a refinery can't output heavy/light/petro together then it won't output anything at all. If the heavy is just going into a tank then as soon as that tank is full production will halt. Some of the heavy will go into lubricant production. Some may go to flamer fuel. Same with light. Although Barrelling and stockpiling light is also a valid plan to feed flamer turrets (the best turret) So set up a pump with a circuit condition so that when that tank is almost full that heavy/light gets pumped to make solid fuel.
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Oct 7, 2018 23:47
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Count Roland posted:I have a car! I spend most of my time smashing into things, though the big trunk size is amazingly useful.
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Oct 8, 2018 00:00
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A tip for later when you can do sick serpentines around your power poles while shooting biters, Brigador has a similar isometric display and control if you ever want to do sick serpentines while shooting cannons with a momentum affected ballistics model.
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Oct 8, 2018 00:03
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Well I had my power grid crash. I had diverted too many streams of coal. First power flickered, then it went low enough that the inserters failed, meaning none of the boilers were getting coal anymore, so the whole system shut completely down. I bootstrapped it by inserting coal manually, but the problem was deeper. I built more more boilers and steam engines. I had to quickly turn off diversions for coal, and when that wasn't enough, put down more harvesters, which of course need energy themselves to run. And during all of this, the biters decided to make their first attack- on my remote oil outpost. After I fixed the power issue I went down to check it out, and cleared out a nest that had spawned close by. And some buildings have range attacks, which surprised me. My base is so spread out, protecting it is going to be a bitch. But it certainly gives me something to work towards!
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Oct 8, 2018 01:07
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ToxicSlurpee posted:They grow up so quickly, don't they?
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Oct 8, 2018 01:25
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Count Roland posted:Well I had my power grid crash. I had diverted too many streams of coal. First power flickered, then it went low enough that the inserters failed, meaning none of the boilers were getting coal anymore, so the whole system shut completely down. This is why I use burner inserters for my power plant. Another option is to have a separate, smaller powerplant that only powers the inserters feeding the boilers. (Which can be what, a single solar panel?) You can also set it up so it's really easy to turn off parts of your factory -- power switches work, or even just a few important power poles that you can rip out and shut off sections of factory. Of course, this all falls to the wayside when you get solar and nuclear, if you decide to exercise those options.
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Oct 8, 2018 01:25
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Re pipe chat: The next update is going to rework the fluid code. Looks like long stretches of straight pipe won't lose pressure as they'll all be lumped together as one high-capacity pipe unit for performance purposes. I find barrelling useful for getting fluids into the logistics network. Mostly useful for lubricant since there's no solid-item step in its production. Trains are useful over a long pipeline because they use the same system carrying all your other long-distance resources and don't need any special construction; barrels I find do the same on smaller scales.
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Oct 8, 2018 01:30
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Tenebrais posted:Re pipe chat: The next update is going to rework the fluid code. Looks like long stretches of straight pipe won't lose pressure as they'll all be lumped together as one high-capacity pipe unit for performance purposes.
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Oct 8, 2018 03:30
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Feeding fuel into boilers is the one place where yellow belts and burner Inserters are never obsolete. I like reserving the first one or two steam engines of a power plant to just feeding the coal mine that fuels it, then the rest of your factory suffering a brownout won't send you into a negative feedback loop where it also reduces the amount of fuel being fed to your boilers.
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Oct 8, 2018 03:43
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I like having coal mines be set up for self sufficiency with burner inserter/mines but burner mines don't gobble up much square footage of coal. It's not as permanent as a full grid of electric mines to suck up the entire coal patch, and mines are very efficient with electricity (esp. with efficiency modules) so you don't need many solar/batteries to have a zero-pollution coal mine outpost you never have to check on again. Plus the coal can fuel a train for more remote coal mines.
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Oct 8, 2018 04:54
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Count Roland posted:Well I had my power grid crash.  You never forget your first power death spiral. I like to have a single burner inserter in the line of boilers so that these can be recoverable. I also think prioritizing coal to the power plant is a good idea. You can do this by wiring up a splitter in the circuit network, if you've gotten that far up the tech tree.
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Oct 8, 2018 15:30
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You don't even need to wire anything, you can configure splitters to prioritize one output side nowadays.
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Oct 8, 2018 15:41
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I haven't had it happen but fixing a nuclear power crash if you cleaned up your old coal stuff could be real fun
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Oct 8, 2018 15:43
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Never not have standby generators. They’re so much fun to set up for me even if they’re never used.
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Oct 8, 2018 15:47
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Also never have a single point of failure 
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Oct 8, 2018 16:23
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Mayveena posted:Also never have a single point of failure That's boring though. (Also I have 2 nuke plants both have trainloads of nuclear fuel, so brownouts when the big one goes down, not blackouts, sadly)
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Oct 8, 2018 17:25
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Was it here that someone who was a powerplant engineer in real life posted their elaborate load-shedding and multiple redundancy backup generator system? I'll never find it again, but that was one of the best Factorio posts there will ever be
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Oct 8, 2018 20:04
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I recently started hooking speakers up all over the place to act as early warning systems for when multiple points of failure start a cascade of doom... or for other stuff. I'd completely ignored them up until now, but turns out they can be pretty useful, especially in relatively autonomous systems you tend to set and forget like power.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:12
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ZekeNY posted:Was it here that someone who was a powerplant engineer in real life posted their elaborate load-shedding and multiple redundancy backup generator system? I'll never find it again, but that was one of the best Factorio posts there will ever be I also remember this and being in awe of it. If it wasn't this thread it was a previous incarnation.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:17
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M_Gargantua posted:As soon as I get accumulators I make switched steam generator racks.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:21
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ZekeNY posted:Was it here that someone who was a powerplant engineer in real life posted their elaborate load-shedding and multiple redundancy backup generator system? I'll never find it again, but that was one of the best Factorio posts there will ever be In engineering, there's such a thing as 9's. You can never guarantee that something will ALWAYS be up, but you can guarantee it to be up 99.9, 99.99., 99.999, or 99.9999 percent of the time. I think four 9's is max. The electrical grid is engineered to be up to four 9's. I think that fits for Factorio as well
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Oct 8, 2018 20:25
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Mayveena posted:In engineering, there's such a thing as 9's. You can never guarantee that something will ALWAYS be up, but you can guarantee it to be up 99.9, 99.99., 99.999, or 99.9999 percent of the time. I think four 9's is max. The electrical grid is engineered to be up to four 9's. I think that fits for Factorio as well I think telecom used to be big on five 9's.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:39
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Just five 9's? I'm running at NINE 5's 
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Oct 8, 2018 20:50
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Some software systems are designed for 9 9s uptime
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Oct 8, 2018 21:53
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Full on 100% is impossible of course but with enough redundancy you can get a lot of 9s. Pretty much the entire internet is always in fire but there's backups of everything so it just doesn't matter for practical purposes.
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Oct 8, 2018 22:11
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If you think the internet is a functioning machine this is required reading. Hell, it should be required reading for everybodyquote:You are an expert in all these technologies, and that’s a good thing, because that expertise let you spend only six hours figuring out what went wrong, as opposed to losing your job. M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Oct 8, 2018 |
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Oct 8, 2018 22:19
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M_Gargantua posted:If you think the internet is a functioning machine this is required reading. Hell, it should be required reading for everybody That article is being generous.
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Oct 8, 2018 22:22
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That's the one, M_Gargantua -- thanks for quoting it 
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Oct 8, 2018 22:46
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Thanks for the correction. Been a long time since I was involved with engineering, used to work for JPL where I heard this discussion regarding the level of communication needed for satellites. I think they were at 5 nines at the time.
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Oct 9, 2018 00:28
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Just to give people a sense of scale - 5 nines means you're allowed ~5 minutes of downtime per year. If you want to actually meet that goal, you basically need to have multiple sites and automatic failover so that you don't actually use up any of it when, say, a building burns down.
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Oct 9, 2018 01:00
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