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Lol law is so fake
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Oct 6, 2018 22:06
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WaveLength posted:Lol law is so fake They are finally letting me us the computer program that lets us give people advice.
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Oct 6, 2018 22:28
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BigHead posted:drat. I have never heard of jury selection lasting for an entire month. That's crazy. We do individual voir dire. And it’s a murder trial. So we need 12 jurors, 4 alternates, and each side gets 18 preemptive challenges. And our judges are pretty lenient on challenges for cause.
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Oct 6, 2018 23:23
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Just found out my friend with less than 10 years at public defenders office is making 6 figures God drat why did I believe the lie that theyre underpaid
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Oct 6, 2018 23:50
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Assistant PD with 20+ years experience in florida is $72k. Florida has a search engine where you can punch in any state employee’s name and see what they’re paid, so I looked up a guy I know.
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Oct 7, 2018 00:02
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mastershakeman posted:Just found out my friend with less than 10 years at public defenders office is making 6 figures $100k is not a lot of money for a lawyer with 5-10 years of experience unless they're practicing out in the sticks.
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Oct 7, 2018 00:14
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Vox Nihili posted:$100k is not a lot of money for a lawyer with 5-10 years of experience unless they're practicing out in the sticks. Lol at my career.
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Oct 7, 2018 00:20
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ActusRhesus posted:We do individual voir dire. And it’s a murder trial. So we need 12 jurors, 4 alternates, and each side gets 18 preemptive challenges. And our judges are pretty lenient on challenges for cause. 18 strikes?! Jesus. We get 10 per side and if there’s multiple defendants they have to split the 10.
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Oct 7, 2018 00:27
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Mr. Nice! posted:Assistant PD with 20+ years experience in florida is $72k. Florida has a search engine where you can punch in any state employee’s name and see what they’re paid, so I looked up a guy I know. The director of my former office makes 106k with 30+ years of experience. The top paid lawyers who are in their 60s-70s make 72-83k.
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Oct 7, 2018 00:53
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This is from a number of pages ago, but my coworker that was being courted by a biglaw firm to lateral in as junior counsel explained the position like this: -Get paid less than a 1st year associate (somewhere between 120k - 180k) -Work the same as an associate (around 12hr days) -Once you bill enough to cover your salary and overhead, then you are eligible for a bonus that could put you up to or over associate pay for the equivalent class year -10 year track to partner I'm no expert, but this sounds pretty horrible and I've been telling him not to take it. At least if they were offering an associate position he would get guaranteed salary increase.
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Oct 7, 2018 04:30
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William Munny posted:This is from a number of pages ago, but my coworker that was being courted by a biglaw firm to lateral in as junior counsel explained the position like this: Sounds like they aren't 100% committing to her so she shouldn't either.
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Oct 7, 2018 06:27
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Mr. Nice! posted:Assistant PD with 20+ years experience in florida is $72k. Florida has a search engine where you can punch in any state employee’s name and see what they’re paid, so I looked up a guy I know. Starting salary in Colorado is 65K with guaranteed annual increases and scheduled promotions. Depending on where you practice after COLA increases 100k+ is pretty easy to break (Or so I hear) Plus I loving shred sick pow every winter which is gnarlicious
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Oct 7, 2018 09:13
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Vox Nihili posted:$100k is not a lot of money for a lawyer with 5-10 years of experience unless they're practicing out in the sticks. That's surprising. These guys started as state appellate defenders then went to be public defenders after 3-5 years . Their friend at the state office with 10 years xp only makes 65k. Other people I know with 5+ years at the state make just over 60. I guess the variance is the real surprise.
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Oct 7, 2018 15:52
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Really depends whether you are talking public service or private practice/in house. Public sector most places you are sub-100, with a few spots that pay well. Private space you’re back in bimodal land with a bunch making over 100 (the associates I know at firms with 5+ years experience wouldn’t really consider a job that paid less, and even low-100s wouldn’t get much of a second look), and then a chunk in the 60-80 range.
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Oct 7, 2018 19:42
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nm posted:Why aren't you in AI? Should I be? I know how to maintain and sometimes fix a car, but I don't know if I'm qualified to hang around there. If you mean my embarrassment about driving a Miata, that's just my generalized insecurity in my manlyness that we all suffer from. Teslas cost around the same, so I don't know if that'd help. Unfortunately, I actually have a genuine need for a huge rear end four by four tractor of a car, but I really shouldn't use it to commute with so that's my bad. ActusRhesus posted:Again. Late to the party. But if it helps, fish, I sit on a grievance panel. Appreciate it. I know it loving sucks having to deal with victims, esp. if they are from vulnerable groups at the outset. It just drains you emotionally in a way it's hard to harden yourself against. Look at it this way, if you find it hard at all, that means you very definitely are still a good and decent person inside.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:02
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mastershakeman posted:That's surprising. These guys started as state appellate defenders then went to be public defenders after 3-5 years . Their friend at the state office with 10 years xp only makes 65k. Other people I know with 5+ years at the state make just over 60. A lot of public service attorneys are dramatically underpaid. Also the CoL plays a huge role. $65k is upper-middle class in some areas and a starvation wage in others. Salaries are all over the place and don't necessarily bear any relation to the real CoL in any particular area.
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Oct 7, 2018 21:30
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I’ve always wondered how this will work in the new/coming area. You always used to be able to pay less (and live on less) in certain areas, because it cost less to live there. Now, it seems wherever there is cheap housing and cost of living, the Googlers and other IT/finance rich people come flooding in to live in the little bucolic town, incidentally making it unaffordable for anyone else.
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Oct 8, 2018 01:16
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SlyFrog posted:I’ve always wondered how this will work in the new/coming area. You always used to be able to pay less (and live on less) in certain areas, because it cost less to live there. Don't have that problem in the Midwest.
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Oct 8, 2018 02:55
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Years ago, you goon told me not to bother. I didn't listen, and now I passed the bar. Looking forward to taking appointments and pursuing my dream of being a criminal defense lawyer. Any tips for getting better pleas?
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Oct 8, 2018 04:50
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furiouskoala posted:Years ago, you goon told me not to bother. I didn't listen, and now I passed the bar. Looking forward to taking appointments and pursuing my dream of being a criminal defense lawyer. Any tips for getting better pleas? Go to trial a lot, it doesn't matter if you win or lose, if you go all the time eventually they'll start giving you what you want. Don't bullshit the prosecutor or the judge ever. Then a new prosecutor will come in and it starts all over again (and again and again).
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Oct 8, 2018 05:17
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Nice piece of fish posted:Should I be? I know how to maintain and sometimes fix a car, but I don't know if I'm qualified to hang around there. Ai likes Miatas. A lot.
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Oct 8, 2018 07:44
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nm posted:Ai likes Miatas. A lot. That's weird. The only thing I could use mine for was exploding the coolant system and killing myself on slippery roads. Wintertime on our rural roads is like, there are no straight lines - absolutely none - everything is covered in polished ice, and every road has been dynamited through mountain so there are vertical unyeilding cliff-faces to smash yourself into at every other bend. What you need is a four wheel drive car or at the very least front wheel drive, quality tires with weight above them (the engine), solid weight distribution and a reasonable seating height. The Miata has suicide rear wheel drive with no weight, low ride height, insane weight distribution and corners like a jackknifing semi on ice. I almost killed myself in that thing so many goddamned times.
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Oct 8, 2018 08:14
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Tokelau All Star posted:Go to trial a lot, it doesn't matter if you win or lose, if you go all the time eventually they'll start giving you what you want. Don't bullshit the prosecutor or the judge ever. This was the advice I got. Eventually they think "is this lineball poo poo we give here worth the hassle?'
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Oct 8, 2018 09:38
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furiouskoala posted:Years ago, you goon told me not to bother. I didn't listen, and now I passed the bar. Looking forward to taking appointments and pursuing my dream of being a criminal defense lawyer. Any tips for getting better pleas? We have a really great relationship with our PDs so there’s a lot of reasonable offers. Biggest things are maintain your credibility. Once you get caught lying once you’re “that lying douche.” Ditto being an rear end in a top hat. Zealous, sure. Be that. Absolutely. But being a complete dick and throwing out baseless prosecutorial misconduct claims left and right is not good for your long term negotiating power (not saying don’t report if you see real misconduct. Absolutely do. But I use as my litmus test “did you feel this was misconduct such that you also reported it to the bar?” If no, then don’t allege it in a pleading. Actually I apply this to all lawyers. Claims other attorneys are “unethical” really piss me off.) be competent. And don’t be afraid to try a case. Oh. And if it’s minor poo poo, then have your client do things that show responsibility before you start talking. AA, anger management, paying restitution, getting a job etc. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Oct 8, 2018 |
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Oct 8, 2018 12:40
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Everything that's been said is on point but I'll add one thing. If you're a PD or appointed, never ever put yourself in a position where your client has power over your decision making. Never lie to them, and if you aren't sure about something just tell them. Also, do not trust your client to do the right thing on their own. Better to be pleasantly surprised sometimes versus constantly disappointed.
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Oct 8, 2018 13:03
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ActusRhesus posted:We have a really great relationship with our PDs so there’s a lot of reasonable offers. Biggest things are maintain your credibility. Once you get caught lying once you’re “that lying douche.” Ditto being an rear end in a top hat. Zealous, sure. Be that. Absolutely. But being a complete dick and throwing out baseless prosecutorial misconduct claims left and right is not good for your long term negotiating power (not saying don’t report if you see real misconduct. Absolutely do. But I use as my litmus test “did you feel this was misconduct such that you also reported it to the bar?” If no, then don’t allege it in a pleading. Actually I apply this to all lawyers. Claims other attorneys are “unethical” really piss me off.) be competent. And don’t be afraid to try a case. Oh god yes. It hasn't happened too often so far, but gently caress me if this doesn't piss me off. We are actually disallowed to bring up ethical complaints against another attorney outside of an ethics procedure where we have to provide a written notification to that attorney citing the specific breach with reasons and only then after amicable resolution has been denied may we bring a bar complaint. It is especially disallowed to voice the complaint publicly, in trial or in mediation and it's hella not cool to use it as a tool against opposing counsel to get them to withdraw or hurt their case - without actual cause, mind. Does it still happen? You betcha. gently caress the people who try to game with ethics rules. As if the goddamned job wasn't hard enough already.
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Oct 8, 2018 14:21
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furiouskoala posted:Years ago, you goon told me not to bother. I didn't listen, and now I passed the bar. Looking forward to taking appointments and pursuing my dream of being a criminal defense lawyer. Any tips for getting better pleas? The advice so far is solid. Here's my take on it from the court's side of things. Courthouses are small, even when they're big. Reputation matters and it travels. If you cheese off one judge, there's a high chance it will get relayed to the others. As a law clerk, anything you do that I don't like? I rat you out to the judge. Make a snide remark about him, treat me rudely, etc. I make sure he knows about it, and I usually bring it up RIGHT BEFORE YOU WALK IN. ("Oh, this is the guy that said he doubted whether you'd ever been a defense attorney!") Don't make me (or any other member of the court staff) do your job. That lousy court-appointed rate you're making is three times my hourly salary. So don't use it as an excuse to phone it in or file a motion with no research at all. ("In support of his motion, Defendant relies upon the Amendments to the US Constitution" IS NOT A BRIEF.) Especially don't turn in lovely jury instructions, that's the fastest way to earn my ire (though obviously dependent on how a given judge handles jury instructions). If you can resolve a case, do it as early as possible. In my state, judges have performance measures and get yearly sitdowns with folks at the state level to review their stats. Resolving a case early helps with that and shows you're respectful of the Court's docket. If you consistently wait to plead until the last possible moment, that implies you aren't working your files or making contact with your clients (whether that's true or not). Explain the rules on ex parte communication to your clients. Let them know they shouldn't be writing private letters to the judge. At best, it's a waste of time for everyone involved. At worst, they write a letter confessing to the crime and I make sure to pass it on to both attorneys. Generally, be where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there. Call if you're running late. It's much easier to cut a break to someone who's consistently punctual and doesn't require special treatment. Once you get a rep as the person that needs everything moved, has a conflict with every date, wants to appear by phone for anything, calls to schedule and then has no availability... you're in a rough spot. You don't want to be that person. The court is a machine. While you have a duty of zealous advocacy, you get a lot more leeway to DO THAT if you are perceived as someone who doesn't impede the functioning of the machine. (Our local culture, fortunately, doesn't see trials as obstructionist. I know that's not the case everywhere, which is unfortunate.)
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Oct 8, 2018 15:53
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Pook Good Mook posted:Don't have that problem in the Midwest. It will come. It keeps seeping further and further toward the middle. The Denvers, Chattanooga, etc. Eventually, there will be Googlers who realize, "Hey, I can live like a king in Des Moines and retire in 10 years - I'll buy that 2,400 square foot house for $700,000 - what a bargain compared to California! SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Oct 8, 2018 |
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Oct 8, 2018 15:57
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Heck, my friend who's making 6 figs at the PDs office is moving to his wife's tiny (4 digit population) hometown in Michigan where they somehow both found high paying jobs (this makes no sense) and will immediately just buy out someone for a lake house. I'm sure this is happening more and more as the economy gets better (and will be even more of a disaster when it implodes in 5 weeks)
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Oct 8, 2018 16:01
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SlyFrog posted:It will come. It keeps seeping further and further toward the middle. The Denvers, Chattanooga, etc. You laugh, but there's already a substantial housing crunch in Des Moines and various parts of Iowa. That's more to do with a slow to restart housing industry than growing population though. Luckily there aren't many "pretty" parts of this state, so at least we don't get that.
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Oct 8, 2018 16:08
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Nice piece of fish posted:It was stupid too because I was just rushing to get to the store before they closed the beer sale (beer sale is illegal after six in the evening). I did not get any beer either. But the worst part? The absolute worst part was that I was driving a Miata.
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Oct 8, 2018 16:28
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Pook Good Mook posted:You laugh, but there's already a substantial housing crunch in Des Moines and various parts of Iowa. That's more to do with a slow to restart housing industry than growing population though. Luckily there aren't many "pretty" parts of this state, so at least we don't get that. No, I'm really not laughing. I'm serious. And I've seen the articles on the growth in Des Moines. I live not that far from there, after all.  One of my long term plans was always to find some nice, underappreciated area, buy a nice house for a pittance, and just be done with a (relatively) small amount of saved money. I'm fortunate that I do not feel the need to live in a large city, so there were historically a lot of possibilities for me that other people would rule out (because they have this compelling need to live in New York, Los Angeles, places like that which I care nothing for). But as the years go by, it seems like everyone else has gotten the same idea, and so I've seen housing prices in places like Denver, Raleigh, etc. just boom from all of the out of state people who are looking for somewhere that it doesn't cost $1MM to buy a home. Of course, that has the side effect of making it cost a huge amount to buy a home in the new place as well, at least when compared to 5-10 years ago.
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Oct 8, 2018 16:41
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Slyfrog if you're actually serious about that look into Midwestern college towns. My friend bought in Champaign , Illinois (home of flagship state college) in 09 and sold in 18, so perfectly timed the market , but by being in a place no one wants to stay he lost 20% of his initial price not even counting closing costs and such. If you aren't trying to find someplace picturesque you'll realize that there's just no demand even if it's a perfectly nice place
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Oct 8, 2018 16:46
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SlyFrog posted:It will come. It keeps seeping further and further toward the middle. The Denvers, Chattanooga, etc. Good get the them the gently caress out of the cities
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Oct 8, 2018 16:48
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Get a government job, live in a small town where you can buy a cheap and nice house, marry another lawyer with a government job, console yourself for not living in the big city by loving on a big pile of stress free money every night. That's my advice
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Oct 8, 2018 16:49
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Alaemon posted:As a law clerk, anything you do that I don't like? I rat you out to the judge. Make a snide remark about him, treat me rudely, etc. I make sure he knows about it, and I usually bring it up RIGHT BEFORE YOU WALK IN. ("Oh, this is the guy that said he doubted whether you'd ever been a defense attorney!") all my friends turn out to be snitches Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 8, 2018 |
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Oct 8, 2018 16:55
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Yuns posted:Rural Scandanavia? Car rushing to get beer? I know you're not Finnish but now I'm picturing your life as a real world My Summer Car game only with law stuff. Googled this, now I know two things: you are absolutely correct and I need to buy that game.
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Oct 8, 2018 16:58
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terrorist ambulance posted:Get a government job, live in a small town where you can buy a cheap and nice house, marry another lawyer with a government job, console yourself for not living in the big city by loving on a big pile of stress free money every night. That's my advice Oh god christ what the gently caress is wrong with you.
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Oct 8, 2018 17:00
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Alaemon posted:In my state, judges have performance measures and get yearly sitdowns with folks at the state level to review their stats. wtf
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Oct 8, 2018 17:19
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mastershakeman posted:Slyfrog if you're actually serious about that look into Midwestern college towns. My friend bought in Champaign , Illinois (home of flagship state college) in 09 and sold in 18, so perfectly timed the market , but by being in a place no one wants to stay he lost 20% of his initial price not even counting closing costs and such. If you aren't trying to find someplace picturesque you'll realize that there's just no demand even if it's a perfectly nice place It actually is something I'm serious about. Two things stopping me are: (I) even though I feel friendless where I live now, I do know some people, and as socially inept as I am, can't imagine making any friends in a completely new place; and (II) girlfriend has a home and job here, so I can't just exactly say "move." SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Oct 8, 2018 |
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Oct 8, 2018 17:41
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