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I just did an ironman campaign as China and it wasn't really that difficult. Put absolutely everything into just pure infantry equipment and pump out as many divisions at a time as you can. I would just have like an army of 24 dudes sitting around waiting for a naval invasion. I think Prioritize the Interior is the better choice because you get the chance to puppet the warlords. I was pretty lucky and Yunnan, Guangxi and Sinkiang all accepted. That gives you A LOT of divisions.
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Oct 10, 2018 05:20
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Cantorsdust posted:The Saudis I'll agree with, but the Iraqi army was one of the largest in the world and considered to be relatively well trained. Yes, their equipment didn't match the USA, but no one's does. And they got loving swept. The Iraqis were comically bad. Like, having their armored formations outmaneuvered by footbound iranian infantry out in the open desert bad. Their whole doctrine and command structure were so backwards they were barely able to fight WWI-esque setpiece actions, and that required their high command (about the only part of their army that showed at least something resembling competence) to basically plan things in detail right down to micromanaging singular companies and having them rehearse their actions in detail beforehand. WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I mean that's not really true. Both the US and Japan were defeated by forces that were capable of fighting in the open with them, but were still very inferior. It was guerilla tactics in combination with conventional warfare that allowed the victory. It only seems a style of warfare of those incapable of conventional warfare because it's only useful to those fighting on home turf, and who invades someone they're not confident they have a massive advantage against? Imperial Japan was stalemated fighting freakin' China, with the majority of the fighting carried by the KMT regulars, while the Chinese were getting supplied from the Allies, and was defeated by the US and USSR. (Also, if you want to try to compare the IJA with a modern-day mechanised army, you might as well try comparing them to napoleonic-era armies, that makes about as much sense.) And with the US you have the old story of a limited war (that was also badly mismanaged and had no clear goals) that's not even remotely comparable to a full-scale mechanised war against a peer power. Again, completely different scale and completely different stakes in play. Losing a few hundred guys in Vietnam was a debacle. Losing a few hundred guys in the Fulda Gap would have been an exceptionally good day. Guerilla warfare ultimately is the style of warfare of those incapable of conventional warfare, simply because it already implies accepting that the enemy will occupy significant parts of your country and that even should you eventually be successful (which means getting strong enough to be able to engage the enemy conventionally again), the occupied parts of your country and the population there will suffer catastrophically in the process, and far disproportionally so compared to the occupiers. Needless to say, that's not something anybody sane would consider as a good plan unless it was just about the only plan left.
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Oct 10, 2018 05:31
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buglord posted:Also don't worry too much about garrisoning troops along the whole coastline. Japanese starve quickly when they land on a beach with no naval base. This is important to keep in mind, just make sure they can't take a port because if they do they will become suddenly very hard to dislodge. That's why I recommend 3+ divisions per port at minimum.
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Oct 10, 2018 05:35
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SHISHKABOB posted:I just did an ironman campaign as China and it wasn't really that difficult. Put absolutely everything into just pure infantry equipment and pump out as many divisions at a time as you can. I would just have like an army of 24 dudes sitting around waiting for a naval invasion. I think Prioritize the Interior is the better choice because you get the chance to puppet the warlords. I was pretty lucky and Yunnan, Guangxi and Sinkiang all accepted. That gives you A LOT of divisions. Even better, you can then just invade the remaining warlords and easily topple them before Japan gets to Marco Polo.
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Oct 10, 2018 05:46
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MiddleOne posted:Even better, you can then just invade the remaining warlords and easily topple them before Japan gets to Marco Polo. Yeah unless they join the Comintern 
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Oct 10, 2018 06:16
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Pretty much everyone in every war was incompetent. If you think the US was any better you've not looked at allied tactics in WWII in Europe. They could have ended the war in 43 if they were focused on actually winning it, instead of brass getting more medals and enjoying actually having a war to fight. Not to mention the nice dick size comparisons between the UK and the US. They were all pretty bad at war.
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Oct 10, 2018 06:22
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Tahirovic posted:Pretty much everyone in every war was incompetent. If you think the US was any better you've not looked at allied tactics in WWII in Europe. This is by and large true of companies as well. It seems to be a problem that humans don’t function well in large organisations.
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Oct 10, 2018 08:05
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SHISHKABOB posted:Yeah unless they join the Comintern Can that even happen?
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Oct 10, 2018 09:34
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MiddleOne posted:Can that even happen? buglord posted:Also don't worry too much about garrisoning troops along the whole coastline. Japanese starve quickly when they land on a beach with no naval base. buglord posted:Alternatively you can cheese it and let them have a sliver of coastal area, give each neighboring tile 10 forts, and be free from future naval invasions. In my experience, the AI won't try any more invasions as long as they have beachhead, no matter how poor it is.
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Oct 10, 2018 12:40
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Nationalist China is so ridiculously much stronger than Japan when you go interior that I'm not even sure anymore how the AI always loses to Hirohitos wild ride. Is it just down to the warlords using their troops to guard their own borders?
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Oct 10, 2018 12:48
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you can get some crazy strong divisions as japan if you stack all the attack bonuses. But the AI... i dont know. I think its the chinese mostly attacking the japanese, and the japanese generally having beefier divisions. On another note, how the FRICK am i supposed to do a democratic czechoslovakia run? everything starts to going to poo poo when the soviets get involved.
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Oct 10, 2018 13:06
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Wild Horses posted:On another note, how the FRICK am i supposed to do a democratic czechoslovakia run? everything starts to going to poo poo when the soviets get involved. sounds accurate tbh
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Oct 10, 2018 13:37
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Wild Horses posted:you can get some crazy strong divisions as japan if you stack all the attack bonuses. But the AI... i dont know. I think its the chinese mostly attacking the japanese, and the japanese generally having beefier divisions. I had some success building max forts all along the German and Austrian borders, rushing anti tank and artillery upgrades, then letting the Nazis bash themselves to death against me. Don't even try to attack, just hold the line until Hitler inevitably decides to invade Poland too. Then join the allies, and maybe consider pushing a bit once the Germans are thinned out fighting multiple fronts and have lost their initial advantage. I managed to beat the Soviets to Berlin this way! In my experience the reds leave you alone once you're in the allies. I'm also an extremely bad player so I'm guessing anyone could manage this.
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Oct 10, 2018 13:56
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ThomasPaine posted:I had some success building max forts all along the German and Austrian borders, rushing anti tank and artillery upgrades, then letting the Nazis bash themselves to death against me. Don't even try to attack, just hold the line until Hitler inevitably decides to invade Poland too. Then join the allies, and maybe consider pushing a bit once the Germans are thinned out fighting multiple fronts and have lost their initial advantage. I managed to beat the Soviets to Berlin this way! In my experience the reds leave you alone once you're in the allies. Well, the germans start collapsing but the italians are going strong and have france and the soviets are basically in the axis tag teaming the poles. Hungary is in the axis too so basically 70% of the border is filled with german, italian and hungarian troops wanting a piece of my rear end.
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Oct 10, 2018 14:02
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in my experience even at 7 forts the germans wont bother pushing through and just stare at you. you should watch out though as the focuses leaves a 1 province hole. my downfall is always the other neighbouring states, either you ally them and they inevitably get themselves killed even with help, or you don’t and one of them will stab you in the back
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Oct 10, 2018 14:18
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Wild Horses posted:Well, the germans start collapsing but the italians are going strong and have france and the soviets are basically in the axis tag teaming the poles. Hungary is in the axis too so basically 70% of the border is filled with german, italian and hungarian troops wanting a piece of my rear end. The problem in my game was that the Poles and I were pushing on Berlin and were about to take it when, in the span of a few days, France fell anyway and the USSR declared on Poland. Poland promptly collapsed and I had to retreat back to my forts. Germany and the USSR never delcared on the other. Therefore I sat there surrounded by hostile Axis and Comintern until the allies finally successfully invaded Italy and France in 1944. The allies finally defeated the Soviets in 1948. tl;dr just sit on your forts and the AI clobber each other. Davincie posted:in my experience even at 7 forts the germans wont bother pushing through and just stare at you. you should watch out though as the focuses leaves a 1 province hole. my downfall is always the other neighbouring states, either you ally them and they inevitably get themselves killed even with help, or you don�t and one of them will stab you in the back
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Oct 10, 2018 14:23
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Can we appreciate the fact that everyone's favourite insane alt-history mod is going to get another update someday featuring pissboy himself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LRRxMt52jw
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Oct 10, 2018 16:24
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Sinkiang joining Comintern's downright common in my USSR playthroughs. I just start buttering em up with non-aggression pacts and sending em trucks & guns and even if Japan's being pretty aggressive that's often enough to court Sinkiang away from Unified Chinese Front and into the Comintern. Communist China's more problematic since they typically don't gobble up Shanxi until the Unified Chinese Front forms so you don't necessarily have a border with them, even via Communist Mongolia.
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Oct 10, 2018 17:16
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This week's diary for this interested; it features changes to terrain, but on water: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-naval-terrain.1123303/ Also sharks. They mention casualties a few times in the diary but I can't find where that mechanic was actually introduced; if they plan on letting you 'recover' experience from lost ships and apply it to new ships or something. Or if they're moving sailors to their own pool or something.
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Oct 10, 2018 17:38
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Yeah, they've mentioned being able to train sailors and pilots using something similar to the "exercises" mechanic you can already do with divisions, which might entail a "reservoir" of trained sailors and airmen you can move about. It might be that ship XP is tied to the ship, but I can't see pilot XP working if it's stuck to the air wing.
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Oct 10, 2018 17:54
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Just use the Garrison Area function and use only Guard Ports. Have at least 36 divisions in that army, preferably 48. I found more than that unnecessary. This was enough to protect all of the ports from Indochina to the front. Never ever use the garrison area command on troops anywhere near a potential frontline. Set them on fallback lines 1 tile wide, leave them not attached to an order, anything but garrison command which is almost guaranteed to gently caress you over somehow if the enemy gets anywhere near you
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Oct 10, 2018 18:30
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ships and etc do have manpower, so it might just be getting that back420 Gank Mid posted:Never ever use the garrison area command on troops anywhere near a potential frontline. also this heck only use it to set up your troops, immediately delete it after it is a menace
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Oct 10, 2018 18:31
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420 Gank Mid posted:Never ever use the garrison area command on troops anywhere near a potential frontline. Every time I have used it with Germany, France, and China it has worked really well for me, when doing specifically "Defend Ports, and absolutely nothing else".
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Oct 10, 2018 18:33
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i just put a 72 group on the entire chinese coast (or whatever other faction im playing) and its never failed to defend. you get far enough men as china that 72 is nothing
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Oct 10, 2018 18:43
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Fronts arent involved with defending against naval invasions, sooo....? If the enemy attacks your ports and the only dudes on them are on garrison command, you must be the luckiest hoi player in the universe to have never had them monumentally gently caress it up Also the second that the enemy lands ports do become a frontline
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Oct 10, 2018 18:51
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420 Gank Mid posted:If the enemy attacks your ports and the only dudes on them are on garrison command, you must be the luckiest hoi player in the universe to have never had them monumentally gently caress it up What? It makes the guys stand on the ports which defends the ports. What more would you want. 
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Oct 10, 2018 19:00
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MiddleOne posted:Can that even happen? Probably not if you do it early like you said. It happened to me at real high tension though. Actually what happened was Shanxi joined Comintern and Xibei San Ma joined Japan's faction when the USSR joined Commie China's war against them.
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Oct 10, 2018 19:03
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The reduce resistance command is useful to keep on but the others can result in your divisions naval transporting through enemy waters or endlessly attacking into enemy controlled territory. Garrison ports is ok as long as your divisions don't have any chance of crossing water to get to them, because sooner or later they will redeploy through a gauntlet of submarines and naval bombers.
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Oct 10, 2018 19:05
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420 Gank Mid posted:Also the second that the enemy lands ports do become a frontline
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Oct 10, 2018 19:23
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MiddleOne posted:What? It makes the guys stand on the ports which defends the ports. What more would you want. It constantly shuffles divisions around, losing any entrenchment they had built If any of the states you selected lose a single tile of terrain that would be covered by the order, troops perpetually suicide attack into that tile If not enough troops are present to fill the minimum requirement troops will just constantly move back and forth between areas effectively defending neither Its full of garbage nonsense and has no benefit to the player beyond distributing your forces across an area quickly (and then afterwards the order is deleted to prevent them from moving out of where you want them) AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:No, they do not. I have seen it happen. Not in a technical sense. Plenty of times my enemy has navally invaded next to a port instead, or even a few times taken the port, and a line does not get drawn. My dudes on garrison duty kick them out while I continue to not give a poo poo and focus my attention elsewhere. Even if a Front did get drawn, no divisions are assigned to it, so nothing will happen. You are misunderstanding me. I am not saying that it will draw a front line using the battleplanner tool, I am saying that anywhere near the literal frontline (aka, anywhere enemy troops are adjacent to your troops) the garrison order is buggy as hell and will work to your detriment more often than not. That you have not noticed this is a sign of you being extraordinarily lucky or unobservant
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Oct 10, 2018 19:46
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420 Gank Mid posted:You are misunderstanding me. I am not saying that it will draw a front line using the battleplanner tool, I am saying that anywhere near the literal frontline (aka, anywhere enemy troops are adjacent to your troops) the garrison order is buggy as hell and will work to your detriment more often than not. Re: The Garrison order working to my detriment/me being unobservant: It must be one or the other, but I doubt it because once I set up the order I have been able to safely ignore my coasts and all of the piddly poo poo invasions that the AI does. I've done this as Germany, France, and China. The first two fending off the allies and China fending off Japan. I do enough math to stack 80 width on ports then I proceed to ignore invasions. If things land next to the ports they eventually run out of supply and die to counter-attacks made by the Garrison AI. On a few rare occasions I micromanage my forces when they end up on even footing/in a risky spot because so much poo poo landed, but that has been very very rare. I havent seen it be buggy or re-arrange the divisions assigned to it except when I add or remove divisions or move some divisions around manually; if I let it do its thing it has worked out great for me so far. I'm not trying to argue about it or anything, I'm just sharing my experience. Maybe you've been in a situation different than me and it worked out really bad/you ran into a bug, thats fine, but it doesnt mean that it has not worked swimmingly for me, so 
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Oct 10, 2018 20:26
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I try to never have a garrison order for more troops than I've given it to. That's definitely a big no-no. But usually after I conquer France as Germany, say, I have like four armies and give them a handful of states (like 3) each to sit on the coasts. Entrenchment is only useful for the guys sitting on the one province that gets attacked, I always send anyone nearby to support them. Defending your coasts from naval invasions by the Allies is definitely not something you can just set up an order for and forget about. You absolutely do not want them to get a foothold, because even though the AI is generally terrible at supporting naval invasions, sometimes they drop like 20 divisions and take a port and then start pouring units in and then it's a real headache. But once they do land, and it's obvious you're not going to push them off with the 4 or 5 dudes you have hanging around, you gotta immediately draw a frontline with the army in charge of that area.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:11
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Re: Front Line being drawn: Ah, okay, os we are on the same page there I mean, I'm not trying to dig at you here but you explicitly say you dont pay attention to invasions. Sure against AI most of the time it will just flounder and fail to successfully invade, but that's not because the garrison command order works well or doesnt gently caress things up, which it does regularly. But because the AI is awful and doesnt know what to do to invade.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:29
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If Austria denies the referendum is there any way to get cores on those states afterwards? Like maybe if I release them as a puppet they'll do the vote like they do when you go Oppose Hitler?
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Oct 10, 2018 21:45
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420 Gank Mid posted:It constantly shuffles divisions around, losing any entrenchment they had built Presumably if a state is that close to the front line, you've got tons of troops there and are checking up on it regularly, so you don't need the Garrison order anyway. It's mostly for your safe areas far from combat where you don't pay much attention.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:42
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420 Gank Mid posted:I mean, I'm not trying to dig at you here but you explicitly say you dont pay attention to invasions. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Oct 11, 2018 |
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Oct 11, 2018 13:56
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So I am playing China with historical focus. Formed the united front with the various other China's around me and have forced an end to the war with Japan. I took the "Subjugate the Warlords" decision and some fall in line and some don't. I get a conquer objective against the ones that didn't submit but....I'm in a faction with them? And if I kick them out it's a 5 year truce? Am I wrong about that? Also, thanks draft dodgers. I had to spend 400 political power to get you stop dodging the draft during my volunteer only recruitment policy you loving fucks.
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Oct 11, 2018 19:52
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Yeah, I feel like I had that happen once as well. Pretty silly.
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Oct 11, 2018 19:55
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You really need to grab that +20% stability minister as China, he helps a ton. The draft dodging crisis only happens below 50% stability, I think.
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Oct 11, 2018 19:59
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I find it a bit silly to say that its impossible that the tool works correctly the way I use it and the only solution is that I'm unobservant. I understand you're not trying to dig at me, but there are other possibilities here. If I assign the appropriate amount of properly equipped/designed divisions to a defensive garrison order and it works well enough that I can ignore AI's invasions because in doing the above, they never succeed, what exactly is the problem? I do not know why it is so hard for you to grasp that not everyone is going to be as lucky as you are. It is a very common problem that I've seen countless times myself and other people playing with me in multiplayer that the garrison order regularly attempts to relocate troops and shuffle them around causing problems. Telling people to ignore it and that its fine is just disingenuous even if that's been your own personal experience in singleplayer.
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Oct 11, 2018 20:00
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