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Ccs posted:It annoys me that a series with so many good ideas is so badly written. Thank god for ufotable rescuing such an embarrassing source material. also, lol
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Oct 10, 2018 21:26
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Ccs posted:I just watched the Heaven's Feel movie but didn't really understand what was happening. Had to read some wiki stuff afterwards. I guess it's designed for people who have played the visual novel. Ccs posted:It annoys me that a series with so many good ideas is so badly written. Thank god for ufotable rescuing such an embarrassing source material. wow this poster became the expert on Nasu's writing in just a week. amazing.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:28
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Space Flower posted:wow this poster became the expert on Nasu's writing in just a week. amazing. Nasu 101 to Nasu 104 in a week?!
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Oct 10, 2018 21:32
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adtrw needs more finger gun avatars
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Oct 10, 2018 21:34
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Snooze Cruise posted:Nasu 101 to Nasu 104 in a week?! Find out how in this new self-teaching dvd program for only $420.69
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Oct 10, 2018 21:41
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Just remember, as it was originally designed, no one but the Makiri/Einzburn/Tohsaka alliance was supposed to actually win the grail. The whole wish granting thing and ritual combat were just vague promises to lure in patsies. This is also why the classes are inherently unbalanced, with the three Knights (Saber, Lancer, Archer) intended to be superior to the other four. The completed, charged grail is just one part of process the three families intended to use to reach The Root.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:42
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Endorph posted:even if you're doing the 'fate/zero is the only real entry' shtick you want to thank urobuchi, not ufotable No, I think UBW and the Heaven's Feel movie is a huge improvement compared to what passes for prose in the VN.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:44
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The VN's fan translation was very shoddy, yes.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:46
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the loving Rhinegold I still can't get over that
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Oct 10, 2018 21:46
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Ah, the fan translation vn. Edit: sniped.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:46
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Ccs posted:No, I think UBW and the Heaven's Feel movie is a huge improvement compared to what passes for prose in the VN.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:47
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So what are you guys basing it off? Did you play it in Japanese? Bad translation is part of it but repetition and pacing is also weak which can't all be the translator's fault. I don't think this is controversial opinion, unless "the worst writing and the most heinous misogyny" is completely ironic. I am completely on board with that ANN reviewer's opinion. But I'm glad the VN exists as it somehow grew enough of a fanbase to get some entertaining adaptions. Ccs fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Oct 10, 2018 |
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Oct 10, 2018 21:49
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Captain Baal posted:Find out how in this new self-teaching dvd program for only $420.69 Finally, Taiga's new gig.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:49
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Ccs posted:Bad translation is part of it but repetition and pacing is also weak which can't all be the translator's fault. as for repetition, repetition comes across much differently in japanese if you mean it in a base prose sense, and if you mean the repeating of basic facts i agree that that's a problem. Fate/Stay Night is dealing with a lot of very complex ideas so its understandable why a writer would fall into that trap, and it's something Nasu's improved a lot about as time has gone on. I don't think the VN is flawless, but I think it's decently written with some huge highlights. And yeah, I've read some of it in Japanese, and have plenty of other stuff in the franchise fully in japanese.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:53
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Ccs posted:So what are you guys basing it off? Did you play it in Japanese? It’s good.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:55
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I read a good section of it since I have free time right now. Didn't finish any of the routes and honestly the quality of writing and glacial pacing is deferring me from finishing any. I get a VN author is dealing with a different format than novel authors so I'm trying to cut them some slack but I don't understand how people can stand to get through all these scenes of exposition dumping and cooking. It's telling instead of showing in such a glaring way, ironic since it's supposed to be a visual novel. A really competent writer would have mixed rules about the world with scenes showing how those rules are deployed which is coincidentally what the adaptions did (for the most part) which makes them much more effective. But hey, all the cooking scenes led to a spinoff series about cooking so I guess even that stuff paid off for Type Moon. Ccs fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Oct 10, 2018 |
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Oct 10, 2018 21:58
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It does kind of sound like a new translation, written on the understanding that English-speaking audiences have a much lower tolerance for repetition, would do the franchise some real good.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:58
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Since I find the basic ideas in the series really appealing I'd definitely play a PC version with proper editing. Especially if they got rid of the H scenes.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:01
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I mean, I don't disagree that the vn has some legitimate pacing problems and structural issues, but that doesn't mean it's devoid of value or 'embarrassing.' if those issues are too much for you to enjoy it, that's fair enough, but ufotable's adaptations are entirely built on a love and respect for the source material and an understanding of its strengths, and nasu has plenty of later works that show he learned a lot from making fate/stay night. It was literally only his second visual novel, and his third published work, minus a ton of short stories, its understandable that it'd have some roughness around the edges. Again, that doesn't mean you can't criticize it, but this weird idea that a work has to be either perfect or an embarrassing trainwreck with no value isn't a very productive one, and as mentioned Nasu's core prose still has plenty of strengths, as does his dialogue. And the long, slow pacing of the game does lend Shirou's house a real sense of homeliness and familiarity, one that the game itself and a lot of later material takes advantage of. Even if it would probably be a better story with some of the fat removed, that doesn't mean there isn't a positive side to it being the way it is.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:04
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I do agree the first route sucked.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:06
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Having replayed the VN relatively recently when the new Realta Nua patches hit, the only real drag pacing-wise is the first route and even that was more just that most of that route is spent exploring themes and concepts that by this point are well. The character beats and big plot moments in the overall story still land just fine. Like it's not perfect of course but for what it's going for it's still solid.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:11
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I found the VN boring, which should be an embarrassment for a work of entertainment. I don't find the tv adaptions boring so in that respect the original has enough of value for a good studio to make an entertaining product out of what the VN provided.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:18
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I've read the official translation of Nasu's scenario in 428 and it reads a hell of a lot better than the Mirror Moon translation. He's not a literary author or anything but his writing is meant to be fast and immersive, which doesn't work if you keep stumbling over every sentence due to awkward/incorrect translation choices.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:21
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What other vn have you read, ccv?
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Oct 10, 2018 22:22
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Ccs posted:I don't think this is controversial opinion, unless "the worst writing and the most heinous misogyny" is completely ironic. I am completely on board with that ANN reviewer's opinion.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:27
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Ccs posted:I found the VN boring, which should be an embarrassment for a work of entertainment. I don't find the tv adaptions boring so in that respect the original has enough of value for a good studio to make an entertaining product out of what the VN provided. lol
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Oct 10, 2018 22:29
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Endorph posted:it is, the thread is titled this to make fun of that person, because its an insane opinion It's a bit hyperbolic but as a work of fiction the Fate VN is probably on par with a book like The Name of the Wind as far as wish-fulfillment mage character, overwrought and overlong prose, and misogynistic portrayals of female characters. It's a perfectly valid opinion. Fate is better than NotW because it's actually finished though.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:38
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Except the statement was made wrt to the anime you are saying you like so much and...Ccs posted:It's a bit hyperbolic but as a work of fiction the Fate VN is probably on par with a book like The Name of the Wind as far as wish-fulfillment mage character, overwrought and overlong prose, and misogynistic portrayals of female characters. 
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Oct 10, 2018 22:40
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Nyaa posted:I do agree the first route sucked. you sucked
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Oct 10, 2018 22:41
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Ccs posted:It's a bit hyperbolic but as a work of fiction the Fate VN is probably on par with a book like The Name of the Wind as far as wish-fulfillment mage character, overwrought and overlong prose, and misogynistic portrayals of female characters. 
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Oct 10, 2018 22:44
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Aurora posted:you sucked
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Oct 10, 2018 22:46
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Fate's only boring if you beeline for good/true end instead of getting killed by Illya in five different horrifying ways in the first several hours
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Oct 10, 2018 22:55
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I'm pretty sure Zero has less respect for it's female characters than FSN does. So it's wierd you would criticize one, but not the other for that point.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:56
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You ever noticed whenever someone compares two stories or whatever to demonstrate how both are bad, after the comparison is made they always say "well the [second story] is worse than [original] story for these reasons." It never really seems to be the opposite way around. I guess because people are trying to reach for the worse thing they can compare something to better demonstrate their point. But its kinda silly to me because its like, "the purpose of this comparison is to associate this thing with something bad, haha! But still I am going to immediately undercut the effect I am going for by admitting "well this isn't as bad as this lol." Human beings sure are weird. Trihugger posted:I'm pretty sure Zero has less respect for it's female characters than FSN does. So it's wierd you would criticize one, but not the other for that point. I have had several conversations where I talk about how frustrating Zero is because its just a constant parade of annoying dudes talking down to Saber and telling her how wrong she is, where the other person is like "Well, she is wrong though..."
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Oct 10, 2018 22:59
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Dead end is a very interesting way for character development. You get the character reaction to your death and/or one liner of how they view the situation/philosophy.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:00
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Oct 10, 2018 23:02
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Fate sucked cuz Saber isn't good as a main heroine. She's boring as hell when put in the spotlight. Much better when she's more off to the side and is able to do whatever.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:03
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Captain Baal posted:Except the statement was made wrt to the anime you are saying you like so much and... Nah, in the review she's saying the VN had those flaws which UBW adaption mostly got rid of. Don't know if I completely agree. The UBW adaption is certainly less boring than the VN though. quote:I played through most of it in the aftermath of Fate/Zero, looking for a continuation of that story, and… did not get that. It's understandable, considering that the visual novel was written first! It has a right to be its own thing! Still, what I didn't expect was some of the worst writing and most heinous misogyny I've seen in a widely acclaimed product Ccs fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Oct 10, 2018 |
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Oct 10, 2018 23:09
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Ccs posted:Since I find the basic ideas in the series really appealing I'd definitely play a PC version with proper editing. Especially if they got rid of the H scenes. The version most legal buyers would play at this point does this and has existed for a long time. It's common for any VN that goes "mainstream"ish since that usually means getting ported or continued on console.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:13
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Ccs posted:Nah, in the review she's saying the VN had those flaws which UBW adaption mostly got rid of. Don't know if I completely agree. The UBW adaption is certainly less boring than the VN though. congrats on agreeing with that garbage article and showing how little you actually understand at all about the series.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:18
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