Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Endless Mike posted:

It sure is!



(TBF, though, the other reviews that have actual things written have more reasonable criticisms, and only other one mentions that at all, saying it felt rushed, but not against the idea.)

Loved reading the story about a woman who worked for darth vader, who runs around with robots literally designed for killing people, where lots of people violently die with my kids. Not ready to talk about two women kissing

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



Dude is into very boring pornography, too.

Edit: The replies to that review are all basically calling him a dumbass, at least.

Endless Mike fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 17, 2018

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

site posted:

Loved reading the story about a woman who worked for darth vader, who runs around with robots literally designed for killing people, where lots of people violently die with my kids. Not ready to talk about two women kissing

Mmm. How to put it....'Evil always gets it's just desserts'. The Empire is doomed to fall, the Emperor will die, and so will Vader. Making them fully and truly deserve their fate, so there is absolutely no question that their being defeated/killed is good is also a standard. As they write more and more stuff into the blanks, you get more and more of this. And those who work with them will also get what is coming to them, unless they have the sense to get themselves safely good, neutral, or anti-hero. 'It's alright to show bad people doing very bad things, because they're bad and will get defeated/punished for their bad'.

It's very old style morality play, very....'childish' I guess you'd say.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Marvel teases something.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Not a whole lot of new info there beyond what we already knew...but man I'm super excited for this series. I love little one-off stories

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

Interesting that Tom Taylor is writing the Resistance comic. He also wrote the NJO comic for Dark Horse in the late aughts.

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.
Aw, I was catching up on Vader and really liking the Imperial architect with the impossible job of trying to design a citadel for him in line with his aesthetic preferences. They could have kept her around for a few more issues at least.

:(

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC
Same.

I like the current Vader series, but I feel it's been introducing and killing off a lot of interesting characters to quickly.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
First issue of IDW's Goosebumps-analog, Tales from Vader's Castle, hit today. I think I would have liked it better without the framing story...but I'm not sure if the little spooky tale would have held up for the pagecount of the whole issue by itself. Cool little idea though, might actually be kinda spooky for real young kids.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
Some news from NYCC, the current Vader series is, just like the last one, ending at Issue 25. Apparently the origin of his fortress was the big thing they wanted to build up to and reveal.

Chuck Wendig is doing a 5 issue Vader miniseries called Shadow of Vader. Each issue is about a different character and how a run in with Vader affected them. Apparently Wilrow Hood is showing up in one issue.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

lol its a castle we dont care

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!

Synthbuttrange posted:

lol its a castle we dont care

Between stuff like this and the Solo movie, the NuCanon has in little more than a year fallen into the "everything has a super-important backstory" trap where it took Legends like 30 to get that dense.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



galagazombie posted:

Between stuff like this and the Solo movie, the NuCanon has in little more than a year fallen into the "everything has a super-important backstory" trap where it took Legends like 30 to get that dense.

Uh, the EU was doing that poo poo in like the 80s, and it's still nowhere as bad since there's not a new version of the story about the skull Luke throws at the Rancor.

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



Endless Mike posted:

Uh, the EU was doing that poo poo in like the 80s, and it's still nowhere as bad since there's not a new version of the story about the skull Luke throws at the Rancor.

Was there an old version of that story?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

galagazombie posted:

Between stuff like this and the Solo movie, the NuCanon has in little more than a year fallen into the "everything has a super-important backstory" trap where it took Legends like 30 to get that dense.

I think they're about on par. NuCanon started in 2014 or so, right? So that's been around four years. The old EU started properly in 1990 or 1991 or whenever the Thrawn trilogy novels came out and those Tales of Mos Eisley Cantina/Jabba's Palace/Bounty Hunters books were out in 1995 and 1996.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Xenomrph posted:

Was there an old version of that story?

I think it was in the Tales from Jabba's Palace book, there's a little aside about who's skull that was. Just some guy who pissed off Jabba.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

jivjov posted:

Chuck Wendig is doing a 5 issue Vader miniseries called Shadow of Vader. Each issue is about a different character and how a run in with Vader affected them. Apparently Wilrow Hood is showing up in one issue.

Not anymore, because Marvel is run by idiots.


quote:

So, here’s a thing that has happened – I just got fired from Marvel. Taken off issues 4 and 5 of SHADOW OF VADER, and taken off an as-yet-unannounced SW book. This might be a long thread, so apologies in advance. (I hesitate to talk about this, because honestly, it gives the Worst Possible People a win, something they’ve wanted for a while. But I also feel like I’ve long held to honesty and forthrightness, and I don’t feel like lying when people realize I’m not on these books anymore.)

To rewind a little bit, when SW: AFTERMATH came out, I assume most know but maybe you don’t, I put some ahh, elements in there (LGBT characters) that were not received well by a certain subset of fandom. That resulted in both a negative review campaign, found across various FB groups and other Worst Places on the Internet, that began mounting the very minute the book dropped online. I was literally at a midnight release of the book, and when I got done, there were already a pile of one-star reviews piling up – which seemed strange, obviously. And scary, too. I didn’t understand what was happening at the time. (And as a caveat, obviously I recognize that yes, some people just don’t like the book for the Usual Reasons, and people who hold those reasons are not to be lumped in with the more septic side of fandom. Tl;dr see also TLJ reviews.)

I also started receiving TONS of harassment – harassment that has gone on for years, harassment that has required me to contact local police and warn them of SWATting attempts, harassment across all corners of the Internet, here, FB, Reddit, YouTube. Some of it was bot stuff, obviously, or sock puppets, but some of it was pretty creepy, and very personal. I didn’t call a lot of it out or even highlight, but it was there, a sort of… constant background noise. (Christ, for an extra special treat go search for my name and check out the YouTube videos if you want an eye-opening glimpse.)

And I was worried of course because, jeez, I thought I had screwed up. I wondered for a time if the book was bad. But then it hit list and stayed on list for four weeks – and the next two books hit list, too, and EMPIRE’S END landed even higher on the list than the first book. And privately, I was told by folks inside LFL that there was no worry here, that they valued that I spoke out both speaking up for myself and for STAR WARS, which has always honestly been a progressive brand and company. And it made me very proud to work for them, too, not just because — holy hell, basking in the glow of STAR WARS, but because the people were great, and they totally got it. (Hell, a lot of the people inside LFL have experience considerable harassment. I mean, that’s not news, but Kelly Marie-Tran? Bueller? Bueller?)

After I did HYPERION with Marvel, they hired me then to write the TFA adaptation, which meant I got to work with some wonderful folks – @hantos and @cracksh0t – on a project that was tricky, because it ended up being more a translation of the movie than an adaptation. (I know Heather received some of the worst harassment in the entire industry – I can’t speak to how well Marvel did or did not protect her from it, but I know she was at the bottom of a major misery funnel from Comicsgate and their ilk. Far worse than I suffered.)

Still, I thought things were good, and I hoped to do more work with Marvel or SW or a combo of the two someday – comics isn’t really my “thing,” per se, but I felt like I was getting a handle on it. Of course, the harassment continued – and it got worse again when TLJ came out. Which I’m sure is no surprise to anyone who has ever tweeted, “Hey, I really liked THE LAST JEDI!” That’s really when I started to see lots of YouTube videos and stuff about me and it was… Well, it was creepy. And I’d seen other signs of people being… fired for political reasons, or folks like @ChelseaCain who was yanked around and was also the subject of considerable nastiness.

And then we announced SHADOW OF VADER juuuuust last weekend, and people were excited, and I thought everything was good. I was not made aware of any issues, and my online self has always been my online self, so. Except, yeah, no. Today I got the call. I’m fired. Because of the negativity and vulgarity that my tweets bring. Seriously, that’s what Mark, the editor said. It was too much politics, too much vulgarity, too much negativity on my part.

Basically, because I was not civil.

Which, of course, is their decision to make. I’m not their boss. (And, turns out, they’re not the boss of me, either. Har har.) (I joke because otherwise, I cry.)

My understanding over this call was that this was a Marvel decision, not an LFL decision, but I can’t really confirm that. The editor said he had made the call. He seemed genuinely upset at my tweets and profanity, so maybe that’s accurate. And again, that’s his right to do so. If they honestly feel that my presence will damage the book, I don’t want that. I want the book to shine, and artists like Juanan Ramirez and Greg Smallwood to do their amazing thing. Artists like that are gods in my mind, so I’m happy to not distract from their literal magic.

But it does set a troubling precedent. One we’ve seen already – James Gunn, Jessica White, and so on – of folks fired because they riled up the wasp’s nest of asterisk-gate. And it seems odd to be mad that I’m mad about politics when – well, look around. Climate change, kids in cages, sexual harassers at the topmost tiers of power, and so on. A call for civility as the PA GOP candidate threatens Tom Wolf with a golf cleat stomping. I dunno, man.

I know it hands Comicsgate a big win. It will embolden them. But they won — I’m out of Marvel and, I guess for now, at least, out of any kind of Star Wars. Do your victory lap, I guess. (Just please leave me out of it.) (All that being said, a lot of wonderful people still work inside those institutions and storyworlds, and I hope you’ll continue to support them and the stories they’re telling.) To conclude: this is really quite chilling. And it breaks my heart. I am very sad, and worried for the country I live in, and the world, and for creative people all around. Courage to you all. I have a dire fear this is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

P.S. Vote in November like your life depends on it. Because it just might.

Top Gun
Oct 24, 2017
gently caress Chuck Wending

He’s still butthurt fans didn’t like his lovely rear end novels that are now unfortunately canon

Marvel 100% made the right choice firing him

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

So why was American Dracula let back in here?

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Top Gun posted:

gently caress Chuck Wending

He’s still butthurt fans didn’t like his lovely rear end novels that are now unfortunately canon

Marvel 100% made the right choice firing him

If you feel called out by the man who calls out lovely toxic fans, that says a lot about you

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



Top Gun posted:

gently caress Chuck Wending

He’s still butthurt fans didn’t like his lovely rear end novels that are now unfortunately canon

Marvel 100% made the right choice firing him

Canon is a literally useless construct from a fan perspective, and is only marginally useful from a creator perspective.

Also Mara Jade never died, and anyone who thinks otherwise can fight me.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Xenomrph posted:

Canon is a literally useless construct from a fan perspective,

Unless you want to, you know, discuss an ongoing narrative...

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



jivjov posted:

Unless you want to, you know, discuss an ongoing narrative...
Not even then, if the narrative can get dropped or retconned at a moment’s notice. How well did “discussions according to canon” go the day before and the day after Disney hit the purge button on the old Star Wars EU?

Like, it’s all fiction. Fans talk about Marvel or DC comic books without deferring to “canon”, and said comics actively ignore or contradict each other for the sake of telling an interesting story. poo poo, even the MCU movies do it, with narratives that are interesting and character building in isolation (Tony’s character arc in Iron Man 3, or Thor’s in Ragnarok) and they get thrown right out the window in the next movie.

Universe building can be neat, and as a fan of the old EU I liked that things were interconnected, but at the same time there needs to be enough leeway to allow interesting/good stories to happen without authors feeling like someone else’s unrelated project from 5 years ago wrote them into a corner.
Additionally, it’s good when lovely narratives can be recognized and purged, continuity be damned. Like when the Clone Wars cartoon actively undid Karen Traviss’ Mandalorian nonsense.

Top Gun
Oct 24, 2017

jivjov posted:

If you feel called out by the man who calls out lovely toxic fans, that says a lot about you

Look my problem is a ton of great novels and comics were tossed in the garbage to make way for poo poo like wending aftermath trilogy and my bigger issue with him was people didn’t care for it and HE got extremely hostile throwing a blanket over literally the entire old school Star Wars community and calling them toxic and poo poo. From what I remember he attacked the fans first and that’s when people really starting going after him.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
Cant let The Gays invade my star wars

Top Gun
Oct 24, 2017

site posted:

Cant let The Gays invade my star wars

See this is what I’m talking about

People gave real criticism to his novels and others said they just didn’t care for it or for his style of writing and his response? Star Wars fans can’t handle gay characters

But keep doing that this tactic has already shown really great success in the real world as we’ve all seen

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Top Gun posted:

But keep doing that this tactic has already shown really great success in the real world as we’ve all seen

If only i treated bigots with respect, they would stop trying to kill me

Lake Jucas
Feb 20, 2011

WHAT OF OUR BARGAIN?
Yeah, no. He legit received a ton of backlash that was born out of homophobia and from alt-right mags chuds. Sure, his prose wasn't for everyone and he is fine with that, and even says that he doesn't want to lump in the people who just didn't like it with the toxic fans, but a lot of people on here and on Reddit like to say those alt-right mags chuds and their homophobic hate mail he got didn't exist when it did. It very much did. I am immediately suspicious of anyone who says otherwise.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

Top Gun is one of those alt-right maga chuds that cries about anything other than straight, white men being the focus of anything.

Top Gun
Oct 24, 2017

Roth posted:

Top Gun is one of those alt-right maga chuds that cries about anything other than straight, white men being the focus of anything.

Totally false

But there’s little I can do to defend myself so keep up the dogpiling here because you aren’t able to win in the real world and your certainly not going to win against hardcore Star Wars fans

Carteret
Nov 10, 2012


Top Gun posted:

Look my problem is a ton of great novels and comics were tossed in the garbage

Give me the names of the Disney Gestapo that came into your home and burned your EU books. YOU CAN STILL READ THEM


THEY ARE BOOKS

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Roth posted:

Top Gun is one of those alt-right maga chuds that cries about anything other than straight, white men being the focus of anything.

"I'm not racist, I just post nearly exclusively about precisely the same dumbshit dogwhistle hodgepodge of petty grievances that online racists care about."

Top Gun
Oct 24, 2017

Carteret posted:

Give me the names of the Disney Gestapo that came into your home and burned your EU books. YOU CAN STILL READ THEM


THEY ARE BOOKS

I know but they are no longer part of the story and all of those great characters and concepts have been ignored/thrown out in favor of really crappy stories such as Wendings trilogy of novels with cringe worthy writing. I would love to meet someone that will tell me with a straight face that wendings novels are so much better than the Thrawn trilogy or hell even Kevin Anderson’s Jedi Academy Trilogy. Totally worth it to remove those from canon in favor of mr bones, Wesley crusher and the prize pig himself.... a forgettable gay imperial officer! Because gay characters certainly couldn’t have been introduced in the existing canon under the penmanship of a better writer. No Disney Had to come in and hire top talent chuck wending to make it all better.

It’s the same issue with DC and why fans got so frustrated with the new 52.

Top Gun
Oct 24, 2017

Archyduke posted:

"I'm not racist, I just post nearly exclusively about precisely the same dumbshit dogwhistle hodgepodge of petty grievances that online racists care about."

What does this have to do with race?

Wending is white and all the characters he introduced are white or alien so I’m not sure what the gently caress your talking about

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

The issue with the old EU wasn't a lack of quality or a desire to write superior stories, it's that it's extremely hard to write and grow a universe around something with three decades of baggage attached to it. Can you imagine if they tried to write The Force Awakens with all that in mind? It'd force the movie to be as impenetrable as hell.

pubic works project
Jan 28, 2005

No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

Top Gun posted:

I know but they are no longer part of the story and all of those great characters and concepts have been ignored/thrown out in favor of really crappy stories such as Wendings trilogy of novels with cringe worthy writing. I would love to meet someone that will tell me with a straight face that wendings novels are so much better than the Thrawn trilogy or hell even Kevin Anderson’s Jedi Academy Trilogy. Totally worth it to remove those from canon in favor of mr bones, Wesley crusher and the prize pig himself.... a forgettable gay imperial officer! Because gay characters certainly couldn’t have been introduced in the existing canon under the penmanship of a better writer. No Disney Had to come in and hire top talent chuck wending to make it all better.

It’s the same issue with DC and why fans got so frustrated with the new 52.

Sir this is a Wendy's

Top Gun
Oct 24, 2017
Oh and by the way Wendinf didn’t introduce gay characters to Star Wars. Paul Kemp introduced an LGBT character back in Lords of the Sith and guess what? No one really complained because his novel was actually GOOD

Hurr but the people who want to argue with me didn’t even know that because there just a bunch of loving posers who hear half rear end news and just want to try and bully and intimidate anyone who doesn’t go along with the narrative

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Top Gun posted:

I would love to meet someone that will tell me with a straight face that wendings novels are so much better than the Thrawn trilogy or hell even Kevin Anderson’s Jedi Academy Trilogy.

None of them are very good, to be honest.

Top Gun posted:

Oh and by the way Wendinf didn’t introduce gay characters to Star Wars. Paul Kemp introduced an LGBT character back in Lords of the Sith and guess what? No one really complained because his novel was actually GOOD

Hurr but the people who want to argue with me didn’t even know that because there just a bunch of loving posers who hear half rear end news and just want to try and bully and intimidate anyone who doesn’t go along with the narrative

Anyway, Karven Traviss introduced an LGBT character in one of her books and I remember people complaining because the book was not very good. People didn't generally complain about having a gay character that I can recall; people did give Wendig a hard time about it in addition to his book being bad. I'm not sure why they got such different responses. :shrug:

If you want to be pedantic, Bioware wanted to include a gay character in Knights of the Old Republic in 2003 with Juhani but were apparently barred by Lucasfilm who had a "no gay characters" at the time (something which apparently went back to the 1980s).

Speaking of Star Wars comics, does anyone else remember that Brian Wood series from just before Dark Horse lost the licence where a small group of fanboys lost their poo poo over Leia piloting an X-wing because she'd never been shown doing it in the movies so it was :qq: NOT CANON :qq: that she would know how to?

Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Oct 13, 2018

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

Wheat Loaf posted:

If you want to be pedantic, Bioware wanted to include a gay character in Knights of the Old Republic in 2003 with Juhani but were apparently barred by Lucasfilm who had a "no gay characters" at the time (something which apparently went back to the 1980s).

It's more than that. I remember reading something about Lucas threatening legal action against a fanzine that had Luke/Han content in it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I hadn't heard about that; this is actually something I discovered by reading about the original Marvel comics from the 80s, which introduced a species of aliens who are constantly horny called the Zeltrons. A group of them is seen flirting with Luke and someone slipped a male one in as well, which had to be done on the sly because both Marvel and Lucasfilm had a policy against portraying gay people openly in the 80s.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply