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Nenonen posted:The colored version was known as 3/5D. Jesus Christ.
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Oct 12, 2018 16:53
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RSM Catches speeding bullets in his teeth and chews them Freezes water with a single glance Blows over 20 trains with one puff Kicks aside tall buildings that get in his way HE IS GOD
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Oct 12, 2018 16:58
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I find it oddly bemusing at least in the fifties post war in military focused regions RSM and their air/naval versions were like local celebrities.
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Oct 12, 2018 17:08
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SeanBeansShako posted:I find it oddly bemusing at least in the fifties post war in military focused regions RSM and their air/naval versions were like local celebrities. Everything I ever needed to know I learned from Battery Sergeant Major Tudor Bryn "Shut Up" Williams.
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Oct 12, 2018 17:40
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zoux posted:Hoisted by its own petard -_- Probably not, it turns out! Further research turned up reports of two Coast Guard ships engaging a moving submarine at that location, at pretty much exactly the right time, and repeatedly depth-charging it until it stopped moving (and then for a while afterwards). They originally thought it must have been a torpedo because of the severity of the damage, but that's also consistent with a US depth charge going off at 200' -- that was the standard depth at the time and would have put the charge right next to the sub if it was trying to hide against the bottom. And the multiple breaches in the sub fit better with two depth charge hits than with a single torpedo hit followed by some sort of secondary explosion in the aft torpedo room. The current working theory is that the sub was spotted by the coast guard escort Crow, escorting convoy CU-58, shortly after arriving on station off the New Jersey coast; it attempted to descend to maximum depth and flee, but was repeatedly depth charged by the Crow and its wingmate the Koiner, breached, and sank with all hands. These records didn't show up in the US Navy archives consulted by Chatterton, Kohler, and Kurson -- apparently the Navy refusing to credit the Coast Guard with kills was a recurring theme -- but they are in the USCG records.
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Oct 12, 2018 18:00
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How effective are depth charges? Is it still the primary ASW weapon?
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Oct 12, 2018 18:14
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Depth charges were replaced with anti-submarine rockets and mortars before the end of WWII. These days they use homing torpedos.
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Oct 12, 2018 18:22
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ltkerensky posted:That's silly. 3D had been invented almost 50 years ago by then, in the late stages of the American Civil War. Then why are old paintings in color?
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Oct 12, 2018 18:30
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A lot of great artists were insane.
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Oct 12, 2018 18:36
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zoux posted:How effective are depth charges? Is it still the primary ASW weapon? I'm using "depth charge" here imprecisely (as "unguided anti-submarine explosive"); the Crow and the Koiner were armed with hedgehogs, which I think are more precisely anti-submarine mortars, in addition to Mk 7 depth charges, and they used both against the sub. ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 12, 2018 |
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Oct 12, 2018 18:46
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One of the problems with depth charges is they are used behind the dropping ship, and sonar contact would be lost with the target submarine for a time while the ship passed over it. Savvy sub captains would maneuver at the right moment to reduce the chances of being hit. A Hedgehog launcher (a 24 barrel spigot mortar) would launch two circular patterns of contact-fused (not depth-fused) projectiles ahead of the ship, giving the target less time to maneuver out of the way, and were much more effective once the wrinkles were ironed out.
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Oct 12, 2018 18:51
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Clarence posted:One of the problems with depth charges is they are used behind the dropping ship, and sonar contact would be lost with the target submarine for a time while the ship passed over it. Savvy sub captains would maneuver at the right moment to reduce the chances of being hit. Yeah like 12 times more effective! quote:Statistics show that during WWII out of 5,174 British depth charge attacks there were 85.5 kills: a ratio of 60.5 to 1. In comparison, the Hedgehog made 268 attacks for 47 kills: a ratio of 5.7 to 1.
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Oct 12, 2018 18:54
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zoux posted:Yeah like 12 times more effective! Little bit of a wonky stat to use - depth charges were also used a lot speculatively and from the start of the war to the end there was a lot of developing ASW doctrine where DP's were the only weapon being used.
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Oct 12, 2018 19:39
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GotLag posted:A Virginia man who was playing a Medieval knight impaled and killed himself with his 7-foot-long lance during a reenactment performance. Gonna love to see that coroner's report.
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Oct 12, 2018 20:21
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Phanatic posted:Then why are old paintings in color? They appear in colour to us. At the time, the artists were just painting with what they thought were the right shade of grey 
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Oct 12, 2018 20:46
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Milo and POTUS posted:Gonna love to see that coroner's report. Freak accident. He was doing a "trick" where it picks a paper plate up off of the ground with his lance while on horseback. He was not in armour at the time. The lance caught on the ground, flipped up and impaled him in the sternum. It was a nice guy. Peter Barclay, was a vet too...
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Oct 12, 2018 20:58
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Looking up Henry II, he caught a lance splinter and the eye and died during a joust. The guy who killed him converted to Protestantism and became a Huegenot leader. Cool of Henry to absolve him of blame on his deathbed, though he still had to retire to his estate in disgrace. Any other notable jousting or other tourney fatalites?
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Oct 12, 2018 21:10
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EvilMerlin posted:Freak accident. i always knew Lt barclay would die in the holodeck
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Oct 12, 2018 21:10
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EvilMerlin posted:Freak accident. Well drat now it's not so funny thanks a lot merlin. e: That said I've heard some weird rear end ways to go and that's weirdest I've heard of in a while
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Oct 12, 2018 21:24
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Oct 12, 2018 23:47
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The japanese fire balloons actually killed a few people, a school teacher and a few kids I think
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Oct 13, 2018 00:37
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Telsa Cola posted:The japanese fire balloons actually killed a few people, a school teacher and a few kids I think
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Oct 13, 2018 01:10
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Alchenar posted:A statistically significant number of people right now couldn't name their HoS. If in doubt, it's probably Queen Liz.
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Oct 13, 2018 01:56
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Telsa Cola posted:The japanese fire balloons actually killed a few people, a school teacher and a few kids I think A priest and two kids? I once looked for the wiki on those balloons, and fell down the weird rabbit hole of modern balloon warfare: first about the British using balloons to gently caress with the German electrical grid, then on the extensive use by America of recon balloons post-war. And then that leads you to Combined balloon-rocket combos and the discovery of the van Allen belts...
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Oct 13, 2018 02:30
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Zereth posted:Wasn't it because they were investigating crashed ones? Not in any official capacity, obviously. I think it was a case of what the gently caress is this weird thing stuck in a tree and welp. IIRC, the authorities lifted the ban on talking about them after that so it wouldn't happen again.
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Oct 13, 2018 02:42
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Milo and POTUS posted:Not in any official capacity, obviously. I think it was a case of what the gently caress is this weird thing stuck in a tree and welp. IIRC, the authorities lifted the ban on talking about them after that so it wouldn't happen again. Yeah I remember a documentary on the History channel that brought it up and basically no one saw exactly what happened but it was basically "Kids go on field trip, found something, there was an explosion, then everyone there was dead." The producers of the show did kinda spruce it up a bit for DRAMA reasons as the narrator went "and know one knows exactly what happened..." it showed one of the kids grabbing a rock with the implication he was gonna throw it at the bomb which, admittedly, is a very kid thing to do.
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Oct 13, 2018 06:45
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sullat posted:I remember Barthas and his buddies captured a German dugout, the men were happy to surrender, although the German commanding officer had apparently caught a bad case of shovel to the back of the head before they arrived. God drat it. I was brushing my teeth when I read this and now my mirror is covered in spit and toothpaste. zoux posted:A lot of great artists were insane. 
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Oct 13, 2018 06:59
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zoux posted:A lot of great artists were insane. And a decent chunk of the terrible ones too
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Oct 13, 2018 08:47
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aphid_licker posted:And a decent chunk of the terrible ones too 
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Oct 13, 2018 12:21
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zoux posted:How effective are depth charges? Is it still the primary ASW weapon? You have to understand that ASW up to and including during WWII, and everything that followed are entirely different animals. Submarines through WWII were slow when submerged, on the order of 5-8kts max. Their battery systems just didn’t have the ability to store very much energy, or to deliver it at high currents; Only the diesels could do that, which required being surfaced or snorkeling. (And snorkels have a maximum speed before they break/swamp.) Most modernish WWII submarines could do 18-20kts or so on the surface. On the surface side of things, most if not all navies went into WWII with roll-off-the-stern depth charges as their primary ASW weapon. They’re effective, and cheap, but the aforementioned problems of hitting a moving target exist. Depth charge throwers were developed that would fling familiar full-size depth charged off the sides to give a much larger kill spread in conjunction with the stern charges, but the ship still had to be directly over the target. The answer was the hedgehog (a spigot mortar,) mousetrap (rocket-boosted charges,) and other depth charge mortars. They all fired a smaller charge, but a whole mess of them in a predictable pattern, and on a proper traversible gunnery mount that allowed a skilled crew to put the pattern almost anywhere within range of the mount, including in front of the ship. All of this became a LOT less effective at the close of the war, and particularly post-war as the first-line navies of the world began fielding boats incorporating the lessons they learned during the war, and from the captured German XXI class boats. The XXI was a complete departure in capability from any other submarine built to that time. It was faster submerged than surfaced, and could sprint at 17kts, maintaining 6kts for long periods of time on battery. Had more of these submarines gone to sea, it’s fair to say that a LOT more shipping would have been lost. Their submerged dash speed alone made then-modern ASW tactics and weaponry obsolete. The USN operated one of these boats after the war for something like two or three years, developing new ASW tactics to counter it. Such a revolutionary leap in capability wouldn’t happen again until the (nuclear-powered) USS Nautilus put to sea in 1955. All of that said, ASW mortars are STILL carried by Russian (and other) navy ships, and still see new development. Their newest ASW rocket is apparently guided after it enters the water, though I can’t find a source with information on what sort of guidance it is. You’re not going to hit a modern SSN at 900ft and 30kts, but you can drat well hit one that you surprised, and they are still effective against the myriad of diesel and AIP boats out there.
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Oct 13, 2018 13:27
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Depth charges are still used by some navies. The Finnish navy's Rauma-class missile boats have them. There's also teeny tiny one kilogram depth charges used for warning shots. A few years back when the Finnish navy was chasing a sub those got a lot of use.
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Oct 13, 2018 14:30
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On the other end of things nuclear depth charges were also a thing.
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Oct 13, 2018 14:36
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If there's ever a series of effortposts on the trucks of the Second World War, I wouldn't mind hearing about these.
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Oct 13, 2018 18:39
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Kemper Boyd posted:Depth charges are still used by some navies. The Finnish navy's Rauma-class missile boats have them. Depth charges haven't lost their usefulness in narrow, shallow archipelagic waters. Rauma class has the Elma anti-submarine grenade launcher too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rXc9FUGfEU
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Oct 13, 2018 19:15
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I kinda derailed the space thread by mentioning the space-stuff-adjacent battleship USS Texas. The last super-dreadnought still existing, it's cool as poo poo and if you're ever in the Houston area go see it. But it's ... a baby BB, I guess? Laid down in 1911, commissioned in 1914, ten 14" guns. Compare to Alabama, the penultimate (and yes, I used that word properly, the next class was the last built) example of the big-gun battlewagon. Standing under those 16" rifles gave me the same sense of awe as the Saturn V, my state's WWI ship wasn't as badass.  I mean, a 120mm APFSDS will go through anything, including at least one side of everything in the above photo, but ... a 2700-pound 16" AP shell is an order of magnitude or two more of "gently caress you and the horse you rode in on", innit? Sadly all the Iowa-class museum ships are a bit too far away for me to reasonably visit. Edit: 120mm is 4.72 inches, the actual projectile is, what, an inch and a half in diameter, around 50 pounds, but going a mile a second? The 16" is only going as fast as a standard .30-inch rifle bullet, but is solid steel with a tiny bursting charge. So it has the mass of a Honda Civic but is about the dimensions of a pointy cylinder a tall man would fit in if it were made of sheetmetal. I did the math for the energy of a 16" shell in the previous MilHist thread or early in this one, I forget the numbers, but it's fuking insane. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Oct 14, 2018 |
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Oct 14, 2018 03:20
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Okay, I followed from the spaceflight thread because I also didn't want to derail it too much, but I live within a Wisconsin-length of the Wisconsin and it's pretty cool. I don't know about other Iowa-class but compared to most of the other ship museums I've visited it's definitely up there. It's got a few select areas open for the general self-guided tour and some more areas that they do guided tours of.
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Oct 14, 2018 04:05
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Okay, I followed from the spaceflight thread because I also didn't want to derail it too much, but I live within a Wisconsin-length of the Wisconsin and it's pretty cool. I don't know about other Iowa-class but compared to most of the other ship museums I've visited it's definitely up there. It's got a few select areas open for the general self-guided tour and some more areas that they do guided tours of. The USS Missouri is well maintained, but the really unique thing about it is that has a really haunting exhibit on kamikazes. There's a plaque to commemorate the location a kamikaze that hit the Missouri and another plaque next to it describing the search for who exactly the unknown kamikaze was. Plus below decks there's a more in depth exhibit with translations of the last letters the pilots sent to their families, with other related artifacts. It's simultaneously historically interesting and absolutely heartbreaking, if you ever visit Oahu I definitely recommend it. Edit: VVVVV in regards to the pilot who crashed into the ship, he died immediately on impact and was given a burial at sea by the crew of the ship. I don't remember if there was a visible dent, it's been a while since I went. Don Gato fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Oct 14, 2018 |
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Oct 14, 2018 04:50
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Somebody in the space thread called me out for using the word "penultimate" to describe Alabama's place in the battleship family tree. I was right. SoDak Class was the ones before the Iowas, which were the last BBs. Don Gato posted:The USS Missouri is well maintained, but the really unique thing about it is that has a really haunting exhibit on kamikazes. There's a plaque to commemorate the location a kamikaze that hit the Missouri and another plaque next to it describing the search for who exactly the unknown kamikaze was. Plus below decks there's a more in depth exhibit with translations of the last letters the pilots sent to their families, with other related artifacts. It's simultaneously historically interesting and absolutely heartbreaking, if you ever visit Oahu I definitely recommend it. Isn't there a dent in the upper hull (above the belt armor, obv) from that poor guy's engine (the pilot and the rest of the plane ... yeah, let's pretend that never happened. He didn't suffer, at least)?
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Oct 14, 2018 06:20
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MrYenko posted:You have to understand that ASW up to and including during WWII, and everything that followed are entirely different animals. Submarines through WWII were slow when submerged, on the order of 5-8kts max. Their battery systems just didn’t have the ability to store very much energy, or to deliver it at high currents; Only the diesels could do that, which required being surfaced or snorkeling. (And snorkels have a maximum speed before they break/swamp.) Most modernish WWII submarines could do 18-20kts or so on the surface. Don't forget ceremonial logs dropped off freight haulers.
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Oct 14, 2018 07:06
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Chillbro Baggins posted:Somebody in the space thread called me out for using the word "penultimate" to describe Alabama's place in the battleship family tree. I was right. SoDak Class was the ones before the Iowas, which were the last BBs. Iowa was last for the US. Vanguard was last.
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