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im curious to know your political afflilation and why you hate Kate Brown
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Oct 15, 2018 20:11
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https://twitter.com/coreypein/status/1051911626054500357
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Oct 15, 2018 20:30
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Knute's plan to "solve" the homeless problem seems to be poo poo like "make it easier for police to harass and arrest the homeless and charge them with crimes for sleeping on public property (because they have nowhere else to go, on account of being loving homeless)" which is uhhhh unconstitutional as well as pretty immoral but hey, ~pensions~.
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Oct 15, 2018 20:58
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therobit posted:They pension crisis is real, and they do need to fix it. If he had an actually good idea how to do that that wasn't privatization, then I would vote for him because I hate Kate Brown. Capping at 120k/year and requiring some employee contribution are reasonable. Privatization is not, because public sector workers earn less in salary than their private sector counterparts (excepting teachers) in exchange for those benefits. But state employees do contribute as is? Dungeon Ecology posted:im curious to know your political afflilation and why you hate Kate Brown Nebulous left of Democrat, I’m not coherent enough to have an underlying affiliation, I just go with what candidates/issues won me over. I register as a Dem during primaries and as a non-affiliated voter in November elections. As far as Brown, I have a ton of personal issues with her, as she’s a former foster care attorney, my arena, and has utterly sold us out (see my previous rambling about state employees). Moreover, that reflects her underlying stance, as she so readily accepts Republican talking points of broken systems, and instead of making the significant investment to fix Oregon’s education, social services, etc, just offers dumbed down versions; for example, she refuses to raise revenue, and even offered a tax break to major corporations this last spring, and continues to talk about “cost sharing” with the public. All this when tech companies and the wealthiest Oregonians are utterly thriving. She’s the embodiment of the worst kind of centrist Democrat, taking huge donations from corporations and acting accordingly. She also gets the benefit of being the “socially progressive candidate” because she’s a Democrat, a woman, and LGBTQ, but I can’t identify a single time that she’s actually taken the lead or advanced a cause on those fronts as governor.
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Oct 15, 2018 21:03
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Reene posted:unconstitutional as well as pretty immoral
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Oct 15, 2018 21:04
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Reene posted:Knute's plan to "solve" the homeless problem seems to be poo poo like "make it easier for police to harass and arrest the homeless and charge them with crimes for sleeping on public property (because they have nowhere else to go, on account of being loving homeless)" which is uhhhh unconstitutional as well as pretty immoral but hey, ~pensions~. So I definitely agree that this is bad, but what, if anything, is Kate doing to move things in the opposite direction on this issue? This is on my shortlist of key issues so I'm hoping for a better selection than "republican with bad ideas, Democrat with no ideas"
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Oct 15, 2018 21:14
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https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1051931261017690112?s=19 Oregon 5th looks like a sideways T that includes the coast from Manaznita down to Waldport and includes Salem in the middle. It also has an offshoot into Lake Oswego. I can see how it might contain a lot of conservative voters, maybe not 23 points, but I wouldn't call anything not including Portland or Eugene incredibly safe for Democrats.
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Oct 15, 2018 21:41
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Oscar Wild posted:https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1051931261017690112?s=19
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Oct 15, 2018 21:51
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Thaddius the Large posted:She’s the embodiment of the worst kind of centrist Democrat thank you for sharing. i see your criticisms, and i think they're valid. those things being said, i'm still pretty squarely in the kate brown camp. I consider myself pretty left as well, and she doesn't represent everything that I want for Oregon, but she's a small push left, as opposed a Knute who is a strong nudge towards the right, which is a slippery slope already. i watched that guy defend his state rep seat in Bend in e:2016, and he is a complete turd. politics is dirty. politicians are going to do what they can to get enough money to keep the campaign funded. republicans dont seem to mind if their candidate takes corporate money, and their corporate donors make huge contributions. democrats will cry foul when campaigns take money from FuturePAC (because they don't know what that is and PAC = BAD), and somehow expect that campaigns will be funded by some grassroots $20 from each donation drive that never works. until we have real campaign finance reform, i dont care if democrats take money from PACs or comcast or whoever. campaign staff need to get paid livable wages and joe q. public isn't about to foot that bill. so yeah, voting for kate brown might feel a little yucky because she isn't the ideal governor, but at this point i can't find a better option. Dungeon Ecology fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 22:04
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therobit posted:They pension crisis is real, and they do need to fix it. If he had an actually good idea how to do that that wasn't privatization, then I would vote for him because I hate Kate Brown. Capping at 120k/year and requiring some employee contribution are reasonable. Privatization is not, because public sector workers earn less in salary than their private sector counterparts (excepting teachers) in exchange for those benefits. Employees already contribute through those lowered salaries.
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Oct 15, 2018 22:07
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also its just laughable that we're looking at PERS when the elephant in the room our abysmally low corporate taxation policies in oregon
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Oct 15, 2018 22:12
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Thaddius the Large posted:But state employees do contribute as is? This guy identified most of what I don't like about brown, and yes, I am a vaguely left of center Democrat. Democrats have held both houses of the legislature and the governorship for the last 5 years and what do we have to show for it? They always complain about Republicans obstructing things but when you hold all the power it becomes your responsibility to raise revenue and fix stuff. Meanwhile, my whole life I have been hearing Republicans complain about the Oregon democratic party being corrupt and ineffective, and then in a short time we get Kitzhaber's corruption followed by Brown being ineffective. It's goddamn embarrassing to face my wife's conservative relatives at Thanksgiving, and I resent that.
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Oct 15, 2018 22:14
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Do you realize that someone taking pac/corporate money has no incentive to ban those donations because it'd cut them off from that valuable source of money? The only way to change campaign finance reform is to either elect someone who already won't take it, so has no downside to banning it, or to refuse to vote for someone who does, so that the cost of taking it is higher (not being elected) than the downside (not getting the money) if you always vote for lesser evils you'll never get someone who isn't evil. Also anyone recieving corporate donations is probably also already bought and sold by big money interests.
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Oct 15, 2018 22:18
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Solkanar512 posted:Employees already contribute through those lowered salaries. What is your solution then? Most of the solvent state pension systems out there have gone to a cost sharing model.
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Oct 15, 2018 22:20
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those are some nice thoughts. a republican will always beat a democrat (or otherwise) who does not take campaign contributions from PACs or corporations. as long as we are a capitalist nation, this will never not be true
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Oct 15, 2018 22:21
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Reene posted:Knute's plan to "solve" the homeless problem seems to be poo poo like "make it easier for police to harass and arrest the homeless and charge them with crimes for sleeping on public property (because they have nowhere else to go, on account of being loving homeless)" which is uhhhh unconstitutional as well as pretty immoral but hey, ~pensions~. Yeah I bet jailing all the homeless would do great things for the state budget! 
Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 22:22
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GodFish posted:Do you realize that someone taking pac/corporate money has no incentive to ban those donations because it'd cut them off from that valuable source of money? The only way to change campaign finance reform is to either elect someone who already won't take it, so has no downside to banning it, or to refuse to vote for someone who does, so that the cost of taking it is higher (not being elected) than the downside (not getting the money) if you always vote for lesser evils you'll never get someone who isn't evil.
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Oct 15, 2018 22:23
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Dungeon Ecology posted:those are some nice thoughts. a republican will always beat a democrat (or otherwise) who does not take campaign contributions from PACs or corporations. as long as we are a capitalist nation, this will never not be true your right good things aren't possible, so why should you vote at all? as long as we vote in capitalists we will never not be a capitalist nation and by your logic only capitalists will ever win. Also some people have won without PAC or corporate money so you're actually wrong. It must be nice to know that nothing good will ever happen and so it's fine to just accept the garbage state we're in as the best possible future so you can comfortably vote for monsters. anthonypants posted:Remember that time Kate Brown signed a letter Comcast wrote for her lol
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Oct 15, 2018 22:42
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Paul Allen's dead https://twitter.com/ByRosenberg/status/1051956047689076736
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Oct 15, 2018 23:01
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oh wow, that was p mean. i never said don't vote, i encourage everyone to vote. this is the kind of vitriol that stops people from having meaningful conversations, if you come to the table accusing me of telling people not to vote or comfortably voting for 'monsters.' Yeah, you hate Kate Brown, but is she a monster? or does she just represent the kind of centrist ideals that don't fall in line with your thinking. this kind of hyperbolic talk doesn't do anything besides virtue signal that you're better than other people.
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Oct 15, 2018 23:02
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Dungeon Ecology posted:oh wow, that was p mean. I'm not saying you don't vote, I'm saying that kind of reasoning would mean voting is pointless. Why should anyone vote for someone who actively perpetuates a broken system that works against their own interests? The republicans hate me and the democrats wish I would politely shut up and die slowly and your suggestion is "it'll always be like that, vote for the people who want you to not put up a fuss and die quietly" Centrist ideals are the ideals that are monstrous. The setup of our healthcare system kills people every day. Our police state kills people every day. Our economy condemns people to slow death of poverty every day. Our homeless policies routinely kill people in homeless camps via sweeps every day. Our deportation system under both democrat and republicans kills people, separates families and locks children in cages every day. Our foreign policy slaughters millions abroad. Centrist ideals have no objection to that, they stand by maintaining this system on the grounds that it either works or "the alternative is worse". Centrist ideals are abhorrent and are only made to look otherwise by complicity and the sheer magnitude of the vileness and vocal hate of the republican platform.
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Oct 15, 2018 23:34
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therobit posted:What is your solution then? Most of the solvent state pension systems out there have gone to a cost sharing model. I don’t know about the teachers union but employees covered under SEIU and AFSCME contracts now pay into PERS what the state used to cover.
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Oct 15, 2018 23:43
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Double post
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Oct 15, 2018 23:44
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https://twitter.com/katemshepherd/status/1051980624213360640 https://twitter.com/katemshepherd/status/1051983420492894208 https://twitter.com/katemshepherd/status/1051983865110118401
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Oct 16, 2018 00:57
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But really it’s both sides if you think about it
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Oct 16, 2018 01:00
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anthonypants posted:https://twitter.com/katemshepherd/status/1051980624213360640 Is there, like, a source for that? Other than this woman's twitter?
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Oct 16, 2018 01:03
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Thanatosian posted:That... sounds completely loving insane.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:05
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The "but if you don't vote..." argument is pretty stagnant. Yeah the immediate consequences suck, but forcing Democrats to represent us isn't going to be a fast process no matter what and they definitely need to feel pressure to do better. That said I consider this mid-term election to be a last chance for the process to at least tread water before giving up on it entirely, forever. Like we should all be in the streets already but I guess I don't want to be the only one. Edit: good riddance to a Seattle poo poo stain #gohawks
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Oct 16, 2018 01:05
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GodFish posted:The republicans hate me and the democrats wish I would politely shut up and die slowly i don't think that voting is pointless, and that's not what i was driving at with my comment about the need for PAC/Corporate donation. yes, it sucks that politicians needs an exorbitant amount of money to be able to campaign these days because they need to outspend their opponents, campaign season is loooong, and requires a large staff to coordinate outreach, etc... a campaign like Kate Brown or Knute Buehler spends millions on ads, literature, staff, transportation, locations, the list goes on. unless you're a high-profile race like Beto v. Cruz, you can't raise that kind of money on individual donations, which in turn means fewer ads, fewer staff, fewer stump speeches, fewer doors knocked and all of that means you don't get elected. thats how the loving meat is made man. i hate it, you hate it, we all hate it. but, again, without real campaign finance reform, she who spends the most money wins. and about the whole "Who am I supposed to vote for? The Democrat who is going to blast me in the rear end? Or the Republican who's blasting my rear end?" i get it, there are politicians in the democratic party that aren't working for the people anymore, and they need to be removed. but i think it's reductive to lump the two together really. There's one party thats cemented itself as anti-choice, anti-labor, anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-union, anti-environment, anti-education, and pro-corporation. The democrats are at worst, just republicans in sheeps clothing, buuuuuttt, at best they are actually fighting for the rights of the disenfranchised.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:08
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GodFish posted:I'm not saying you don't vote, I'm saying that kind of reasoning would mean voting is pointless. Why should anyone vote for someone who actively perpetuates a broken system that works against their own interests? The republicans hate me and the democrats wish I would politely shut up and die slowly and your suggestion is "it'll always be like that, vote for the people who want you to not put up a fuss and die quietly" Half our systems kill people every day. The world is not ok. Centrists say it is.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:10
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Dungeon Ecology posted:i get it, there are politicians in the democratic party that aren't working for the people anymore, and they need to be removed. but i think it's reductive to lump the two together really. Dungeon Ecology posted:There's one party thats cemented itself as anti-choice, anti-labor, anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-union, anti-environment, anti-education, and pro-corporation. The democrats are at worst, just republicans in sheeps clothing, buuuuuttt, at best they are actually fighting for the rights of the disenfranchised.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:19
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On the one hand, standing by and letting the Republicans get into power seems like a massively wrong thing to do. On the other hand, one definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results," which is pretty much the definition of the progressive Democratic voter. You're telling them not to do something, then giving them a cookie when they do. I'm rapidly moving from the former camp into the latter. The one thing centrists are supposed to be good at is winning elections, so why the gently caress do the Republicans control all three branches of government?
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Oct 16, 2018 01:32
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anthonypants posted:It's like a sentence or two in this article, which is even more ridiculous.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:40
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Thanatosian posted:On the one hand, standing by and letting the Republicans get into power seems like a massively wrong thing to do. The middle class doesn't exist as it once did and that was who voted dem in the past.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:51
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Thanatosian posted:I feel like there has to be more information than that, right? Like, the cops didn't see a bunch of extremist fanatics hauling weaponry to a rooftop, and just decide to give them a wag of the finger and send them home, right? We're definitely missing some sort of context here, right?
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Oct 16, 2018 01:52
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anthonypants posted:Absolutely neither of these things have been true since I've been alive. then we are living in two different realities. 
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Oct 16, 2018 02:07
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Dungeon Ecology posted:then we are living in two different realities.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:10
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Thanatosian posted:On the other hand, one definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results," It is not.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:12
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Thanatosian posted:I feel like there has to be more information than that, right? Like, the cops didn't see a bunch of extremist fanatics hauling weaponry to a rooftop, and just decide to give them a wag of the finger and send them home, right? We're definitely missing some sort of context here, right? The context is that the cops are always on the side of the fascists and the entire system needs to be burnt down and rebuilt from scratch. But we can't do that. So loving vote, you idiots.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:13
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Dungeon Ecology posted:then we are living in two different realities. Maybe it would help if you specified why you feel the Democrats are “fighting for the rights of the disenfranchised”. Please note, merely not supporting the outright attacks from Republicans or taking credit for social changes doesn’t count for much, I’m talking about ways in which they’re proactively doing so.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:13
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