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I'm still hoping they end up doing something with Rei's deep Dark Side tendencies hinted at in both movies.
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Oct 16, 2018 16:52
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I hope they do what the whole story so far has been about and confirm that the Dark Side isn't real
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Oct 16, 2018 20:50
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Vinylshadow posted:I wonder if the Rey who walked into the Dark Side Geyser was the same Rey that walked out of it Bigger Rey Theory
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Oct 16, 2018 20:59
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Bleck posted:I hope they do what the whole story so far has been about and confirm that the Dark Side isn't real I remember Legends EU tried that once but nobody liked it so it didn't last. 
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Oct 16, 2018 21:00
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Rey is gonna have to kill Reey in Episode IX
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Oct 16, 2018 21:01
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Rey meets her brother, Roy
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Oct 16, 2018 21:04
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jivjov posted:Also, [citation needed]. Stop spreading this baseless loving rumor as if it was fact, you miserable little troll. From a while ago, but I'll post it anyway, because I'm sure there's been another post just like this since then and I just got back from vacation. I want to sympathize with you, I really do. Because almost half the "Jakku is Tatooine people" are likely just loving with you. Almost half of them mean that they are thematically the same, so who gives a poo poo if they're not the exact same planet according to some story group (which I agree with, that they serve the same story purpose. Because TFA is trying to get you to like new Star Wars the same way you liked the OT, so they wanted Rey to come from "Tatooine", but Tatooine wouldn't feel as remote anymore since we keep going back to it, so they basically just made a new "Tatooine" and called it Jakku. It's the "same planet", but not if you get technical with it, because they still wanted it to feel remote and like our hero was from nowhere.) And there's a small minority of people who likely actually believe that in the concocted out of nowhere idea that the planet was literally renamed after the fall of the Jabba the Hutt, but isn't supported really by anything in text (it's fan fiction). Sure, it can be "inferred", but to pretend it's the absolute truth is just as asinine as jivjov saying that it's CAN'T be the same planet because the absolute truth says it's not. There is no absolute truth, as has been pointed out repeatedly to jivjov, just your interpretation of what's on screen, and the moment you add "after the fall of Jabba, the planet was renamed", you're making what could be a fun "what if/maybe" into what you say is the absolute truth. But then you go off like this, and I lose all sympathy for you. Just, like, calm the gently caress down, dude. Throwing insults and petty attacks around do you no favors. Yeah, Wheatloaf constantly insisting that Episode IX will fail and he absolutely knows this, and Rian Johnson's trilogy will absolutely be cancelled and everyone knows this can get annoying, but there are ways to ignore him without blaring, "I will now ignore you." Just move the gently caress on.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:26
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euphronius posted:Rey meets her brother, Roy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9O3fapKrjI
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Oct 16, 2018 21:36
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Bleck posted:I hope they do what the whole story so far has been about and confirm that the Dark Side isn't real Well, going by George's old ideas; the Dark Side isn't an equal Side to the Force but rather it's corruption. It should be Balance versus Unbalance instead of Light versus Dark. Especially since the first mention of Light Side in the movies was in TFA. The Luke training in TLJ seems to agree with this interpretation, but who the hell knows.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:56
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thrawn527 posted:And there's a small minority of people who likely actually believe that in the concocted out of nowhere idea that the planet was literally renamed after the fall of the Jabba the Hutt, but isn't supported really by anything in text (it's fan fiction). Sure, it can be "inferred", but to pretend it's the absolute truth is just as asinine as jivjov saying that it's CAN'T be the same planet because the absolute truth says it's not. You're misunderstanding how storytelling works. Jivjov is not concerned with truth, but with meaning: "what was meant by the author [story group]?" Like one page ago it was asked how Darth Maul traced the Jedi to Jakku in Episode 1. Plotwise someone in the crew broke opsec and sent a transmission home - but this is never shown, so it's as if Maul is responding directly to the crew's collective doubt in Quigon. Even Obiwan doubts Quigon, and considers surrendering the queen: Obiwan: What if it is true, and the people are dying? Maul detects a transmission immediately after that line, flies in... and attacks Quigon. Nobody questions Quigon after that - which is exactly what Palapatine had hoped for. The presence of the scary red-faced guy is tricking the heroes into adopting extreme new tactics. The same thing happens at the end of the film when Quigon is killed: the Jedi decide to train Anakin, even though it's against the rules. The identity of desert planet is like the identity of the person who sent the transmission. Plotwise it could be the same planet, or it could be a functionally identical planet. We're not shown anything one way or the other. But the truth is in the outcome: in the gap between episodes 6 and 7, sometime after Jabba died, Tatooine became Jakku. That's simply true.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:Well, going by George's old ideas; the Dark Side isn't an equal Side to the Force but rather it's corruption. It should be Balance versus Unbalance instead of Light versus Dark. Especially since the first mention of Light Side in the movies was in TFA. Yeah, I remember one older tie-in book (for whatever that's worth) which had the back cover blurb describing how the contents explained "the Force and its dark side" which is something I suppose has always stuck with me when I look at it. There were some comics which referred to "the light side of the Force" and it never quite sat right with me. I believe Lucas's idea - from some old interview he did when the prequels were coming out, I think, though I don't recall exactly where, only that I read it - was that the Sith were what had created the imbalance in the Force and that "bringing balance to the Force" meant destroying the Sith because they were the source of corruption. The Jedi, in his view, were supposed to agents of the balance rather than agents of the light.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:, sometime after Jabba died, Tatooine became Jakku. That's simply true. [citation needed]
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Oct 16, 2018 22:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The identity of desert planet is like the identity of the person who sent the transmission. Plotwise it could be the same planet, or it could be a functionally identical planet. We're not shown anything one way or the other. But the truth is in the outcome: in the gap between episodes 6 and 7, sometime after Jabba died, Tatooine became Jakku. That's simply true. Well now you're playing a game of words. "Sometime after Jabba died, Tatooine became Jakku". What you mean by "became" is important. As long as you mean, "in between the release of Episode 6 and 7, for the purposes of the story, Tatooine was turned into Jakku", sure, that is "simply true". If you mean, in universe, they renamed the physical planet of Tatooine to Jakku, like you had two characters in universe talking and one said, "Remember when everyone started calling Tatooine Jakku after Jabba died? That was weird, right? Did we vote on that or something?", I mean, maybe. It's possible, and you can infer that, and it can be fun to discuss the possibility. But you can't say it is "simply true'" As you said, we're not shown one way or the other. That's the distinction I was pointing out. I believe you are referring to the former, which is fine and what jivjov refuses to accept. Tatooine "is" Jakku. For the purposes of the story, they serve the same purpose, and might as well be the same planet. If Episode IX were to, hypothetically, have Tatooine be shown to be a distinctly different planet for Jakku (unlikely as this would be, because why have two desert planets in one movie, but if they were to be on Tatooine and then head to Jakku, making it clearly they traveled to a different planet), this point would still stand just fine. The other point would not, because now they would be shown, in universe, to be different planets, and we would have now been shown, to quote you, "one way or the other", which, as you pointed out, we have not yet been shown. jivjov posted:[citation needed] You continue to refuse to accept the argument being presented. Which I get, because some people have legit been arguing in bad faith. But I'm starting to think you get what is being said, but just refuse to acknowledge it.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:20
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At least he just posts citation needed over and over now, instead of going on insane rage filled tirades about how much he hates religious people, and how we should all be killed
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Oct 16, 2018 22:24
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thrawn527 posted:Well now you're playing a game of words. "Sometime after Jabba died, Tatooine became Jakku". What you mean by "became" is important. As long as you mean, "in between the release of Episode 6 and 7, for the purposes of the story, Tatooine was turned into Jakku", sure, that is "simply true". If you mean, in universe, they renamed the physical planet of Tatooine to Jakku, like you had two characters in universe talking and one said, "Remember when everyone started calling Tatooine Jakku after Jabba died? That was weird, right? Did we vote on that or something?", I mean, maybe. It's possible, and you can infer that, and it can be fun to discuss the possibility. But you can't say it is "simply true'" As you said, we're not shown one way or the other. Turn back, you fool! This way lies madness.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:28
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No Mods No Masters posted:At least he just posts citation needed over and over now, instead of going on insane rage filled tirades about how much he hates religious people, and how we should all be killed I don't think religious people should be killed. I think religious people need to keep their religions to themselves and 1) stop indoctrinating children into believing religions are factual accounts of history and 2) stop using religion as a basis for lawmaking or a justification for why legal actions are good.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:28
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jivjov will only accept the validity of Watsonian evidence. He seems insensible to the idea that the rest of us are making Doylist arguments, and obstinately refuses to interpret them as such. For one such as him, there is only one way to read a story - not that other ways of reading are wrong, but they don't even exist to him, and disagreements are errors in applying that one way. This opinion even extends to religious stories.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:28
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thrawn527 posted:You continue to refuse to accept the argument being presented. Which I get, because some people have legit been arguing in bad faith. But I'm starting to think you get what is being said, but just refuse to acknowledge it. No argument has been presented. Nobody can cite any place where it is explicitly and definitively established that Jakku and Tatooine are the same planet.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:29
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thrawn527 posted:If you mean, in universe, they renamed the physical planet of Tatooine to Jakku, like you had two characters in universe talking and one said, "Remember when everyone started calling Tatooine Jakku after Jabba died? That was weird, right? Did we vote on that or something?", I mean, maybe. It's possible, and you can infer that, and it can be fun to discuss the possibility. But you can't say it is "simply true'" As you said, we're not shown one way or the other. Again, you are confusing some very different things. Truth is not found in the plot (i.e. in your blunt exposition). Truth is found in the storytelling. You are concerned with the entirely-offscreen virtual-universe plot mechanics that objectively explain how the planets became the same. A secret meaning, beneath the surface of the image. But the planets are already the same, without that stuff. In truth, there is nothing except what is on the screen.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:31
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edit:PostNouveau posted:Turn back, you fool! This way lies madness. Never mind, you're right.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:31
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Again, you are confusing some very different things. And nothing on screen definitively and explicitly establishes that Jakku is a renamed Tatooine. thrawn527 posted:"We're not shown anything one way or the other." Other than all the various canonical sources that present Jakku and Tatooine as two separate planets.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:32
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jivjov posted:No argument has been presented. Nobody can cite any place where it is explicitly and definitively established that Jakku and Tatooine are the same planet. We have presented Watsonian arguments that demonstrate it is plausible, and Doylist arguments that it is true. Your only counterargument has been to demand a Watsonian argument that it is true. You haven't even tried to show us that it's implausible.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:32
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jivjov posted:And nothing on screen definitively and explicitly establishes that Jakku is a renamed Tatooine.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:36
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Bongo Bill posted:jivjov will only accept the validity of Watsonian evidence. He seems insensible to the idea that the rest of us are making Doylist arguments, and obstinately refuses to interpret them as such. For one such as him, there is only one way to read a story - not that other ways of reading are wrong, but they don't even exist to him, and disagreements are errors in applying that one way. This opinion even extends to religious stories. You know what they say: Dorothy Sayers posted:The game of applying the methods of the "Higher Criticism" to ... canon was begun, many years ago ... with the aim of showing that, by those methods, one could disintegrate a modern classic as speciously as a certain school of critics have endeavoured to disintegrate the Bible. Since then, the thing has become a hobby among a select set of jesters here and in America.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:44
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jivjov posted:And nothing on screen definitively and explicitly establishes that Jakku is a renamed Tatooine. The opening text of Episode 7 refers to Luke's desert planet as Jakku, showing that it has been renamed at some point. On a slightly related note, one of the last images of Tatooine in Episode 6 is a ship crashing into the side of a dune: Jabba's massive antigravity party bus. Force Awakens calls back to this image repeatedly.  The last three shots of Tatooine from Episode 6 are basically reversed when FN is shot down.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The opening text of Episode 7 refers to Luke's desert planet as Jakku, showing that it has been renamed at some point. No it doesn't [quote=Episode VII THE FORCE AWAKENS] Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts….[/quote] No mention of Tatooine, no mention of Jakku being "Luke's Planet"
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Oct 16, 2018 22:59
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jivjov posted:No mention of Tatooine, no mention of Jakku being "Luke's Planet" It says, in the same sentence, that Jakku is where Luke was hanging out and leaving clues lying around. 'Old allies' knew to search for Luke there. Seems that Jakku was Luke's planet.
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Oct 16, 2018 23:07
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The Jakku is Tatooine trolling is both hilarious and ridiculously stupid. Also, it's disproven by the canon Star Wars BattleFront 2 video game. Both Jakku and Tatooine are in the game.
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Oct 16, 2018 23:08
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"Jakku" is actually the Huttese word for "Luuke".
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Oct 16, 2018 23:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It says, in the same sentence, that Jakku is where Luke was hanging out and leaving clues lying around. 'Old allies' knew to search for Luke there. It says Lor San Tekka is there with a clue to Luke's location; not that Luke himself was there. Please learn to read.
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Oct 16, 2018 23:13
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jivjov posted:It says Lor San Tekka is there with a clue to Luke's location; not that Luke himself was there. Please learn to read. It says that Jakku is the place where he discovered that clue, and if Luke hadn't been there, where did the clue come from?
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Oct 16, 2018 23:21
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I Before E posted:It says that Jakku is the place where he discovered that clue, and if Luke hadn't been there, where did the clue come from? Not a clue; we haven't been told exactly where the map fragment came from yet. And even if we assume Luke was there and left the map there...that doesn't magically make Jakku into a renamed Tatooine.
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Oct 16, 2018 23:25
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jivjov posted:Not a clue; we haven't been told exactly where the map fragment came from yet. It came from Jakku. That’s where it was discovered. If Luke was never on Jakku, then someone stole Luke’s map and travelled to Jakku with it. Your standard of proof gets all fucky here, because there is zero evidence that such a person exists.
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Oct 16, 2018 23:44
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Why is Jabba dying an important part of the Jakku is Tattooine meme?
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Oct 16, 2018 23:47
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porfiria posted:Why is Jabba dying an important part of the Jakku is Tattooine meme? The ruler of the planet being assassinated very probably contributed to the instability that led to the planet changing its name.
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Oct 16, 2018 23:49
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porfiria posted:Why is Jabba dying an important part of the Jakku is Tattooine meme? 1) It’s a sensible reason for the name change. When Palpatine died, the Empire was renamed the New Republic. (Although, according to Jiv’s logic, there is no definitive proof of this.) 2) Jakkooine is no mere meme. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 23:49
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Bongo Bill posted:The ruler of the planet being assassinated very probably contributed to the instability that led to the planet changing its name. Nothing ever indicates Jabba rules Tattoine He is a mere gangster
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Oct 17, 2018 00:09
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He seems to be ruling Jakku in A phantom menace.
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Oct 17, 2018 00:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It came from Jakku. That’s where it was discovered. Even if Luke was on Jakku, that does not make Jakku Tatooine.
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Oct 17, 2018 00:12
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Ammanas posted:Nothing ever indicates Jabba rules Tattoine It's controlled by the Hutts.
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Oct 17, 2018 00:14
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