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If you decide to bike to work instead of drive you get to learn all sorts of useful things about transit. Does your area have adequate bike lane coverage? Do areas need to be restriped? Does public transit have adequate bike storage? Does your city keep KPIs on bike commuter rates or traffic injury rates? Are certain intersections particularly dangerous? Is there adequate well-designed areas to lock your bike? Etc... You can then use this information to push your municipal government to make policies that encourage bike use. Net effect: Biking is safer for everyone, more people bike, air quality improves, people are healthier, CO2 load goes down. But this doesn't happen by "only focusing on political systemic changes" That would just result in a city with great bike access that everyone continues to drive in. By making personal changes and being politically active you get to learn what policy changes are actually needed and then you get to organize to render those changes.
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Oct 17, 2018 01:18
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Doorknob Slobber posted:Name a time a democrat or republican fixed climate change instead of making it worse and I'll name a time I'll vote for one. My city keeps a moving KPI target on the amount of residents that bike to work and uses it to guide policymaking that encourages people to bike instead of drive to work. So there's an easy example. It's pretty clear you've never bothered to contribute to your community at a local level. It's slow and frustrating, but positive change can and does happen. You should try it some time.
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Oct 17, 2018 01:21
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Biking to work is a privilege my friend and not feasible for many people for a variety of reasons, a few I can think of off the top of my head are, being able to live close enough to work, health, weather I also think the notion that we can individually solve climate change is a trap, specifically spewed out by democratic donors in the mainstream media who literally want to actually do nothing and have demonstrated as such.  I've done the less meat thing already to the point where I only eat meat once a week partly because meat is too expensive to make every night, I've been unemployed and poor for so long that my footprint is probably less than most people posting in this thread simply by virtue of not being able to afford otherwise.
Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 01:26
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Doorknob Slobber posted:Biking to work is a privilege my friend and not feasible for many people for a variety of reasons, a few I can think of off the top of my head are, being able to live close enough to work, health, weather And a city can work to make it easier for people to bike so that more able bodied people have it as an option. Now that you've used some of your brain cells to figure out that distance to work is important, you understand that affordable housing is also linked to lowering traffic burden so that more people can live closer to their place of employment. Someone who is a bike commuter should also lobby for good housing projects too, then. Wow it's amazing how things fit together when you look for reasons to do something instead of excuses to not do something.
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Oct 17, 2018 01:31
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How are u posted:I'm going to Mexico in a few weeks in this case "jack poo poo" is defined as about 750 kilograms StabbinHobo fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 01:33
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:And a city can work to make it easier for people to bike so that more able bodied people have it as an option. wow its almost like you're agreeing that the changes have to be not at the individual level, but at the city/state/national/world level to make an impact on climate change I don't understand why you're even arguing with me at this point or what we're arguing about.
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Oct 17, 2018 02:03
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Doorknob Slobber posted:wow its almost like you're agreeing that the changes have to be not at the individual level, but at the city/state/national/world level to make an impact on climate change I don't understand why you're even arguing with me at this point or what we're arguing about. Coping with climate change requires adaptation at both the system and individual level. It's not one or the other.
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Oct 17, 2018 02:09
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The goal is not to reduce your carbon footprint by half but rather to reduce your enemies carbon footprint to zero.
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Oct 17, 2018 02:20
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Coping with climate change requires adaptation at both the system and individual level. It's not one or the other. No thanks, I would rather argue for 200 pages with people that I more or less agree with.
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Oct 17, 2018 02:33
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Papal Infallibility posted:The goal is not to reduce your carbon footprint by half but rather to reduce your enemies carbon footprint to zero. everyone wants two of them and half of everyone else who's around
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Oct 17, 2018 02:35
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Doorknob Slobber posted:i already vaccinated my kids, so I don't need to wash my hands before eating. Promoting political/systemic action is not mutually exclusive with positive individual lifestyle changes, and makes you seem a hell of a lot less like a stupid hypocrite.
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Oct 17, 2018 02:38
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I feel if you kill someone you should be allowed to fly on planes.
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Oct 17, 2018 03:22
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porfiria posted:I feel if you kill someone you should be allowed to fly on planes. A Thunderdrome at every airport!
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Oct 17, 2018 13:06
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I feel like the way people talk about their lack of choices wrt living ecologically implies they're in a disastrous social trap ("I can't get out of my village without a car! I don't have the time to cook!") and that trying to get out of that trap would improve their life 1000% even if climate change was a non-issue
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Oct 17, 2018 13:09
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How are u posted:I'll 100% vote for a government that, like, forbids international air travel on pain of death or makes beef eating illegal, but until that day I'm gonna enjoy what's left of this world because your individual carbon cutting means jack. poo poo. Liar. Seriously, people who go all "oh no yeah I’d vote for the party who’d force me to *insert constraint here* but I ain’t gonna do jack on my own" are utter garbage because they know that a) no parties advocate for policy like this and no party ever will b) they never actually would vote for parties with fringe ecological positions - there’s always a good excuse - and c) they don’t actually give a poo poo Just look at the venom they have for the people who, despite being as powerless as them, actually put in an effort to curtail their own emissions.
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Oct 17, 2018 13:18
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Liar. Even if personal stuff doesn't make that much of a difference, it's a good habit to get into and a good example to set for folks. I don't have kids. I still eat some meat, but I've been slowly getting it out of my diet. I drive a car, but it is literally necessary for my work (I'm a contractor of sorts, and so my job requires I go to customers houses, and I have to bring all my equipment with me, which...I can't take with me on public transit, I've got too much stuff.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:41
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You don't even have to give up all meat, just beef, and you'll be making a large impact on your personal carbon footprint. Nevermind all the other measures you can take that will help you adapt to the coming consumption-reducing economic hardships on your own terms, rather than during crisis mode.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:49
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Is hunting all your own meat a good compromise?
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Oct 17, 2018 15:19
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Liar.  Don't hate the player, friend. Climate Change is the all-consuming bugaboo of my life, much like the rest of us sad sacks here. I just recognize that, apart from not having a kid (done) and voting for people who accept reality and acknowledge that government must do something, anything else I try to do is a mouse fart in the middle of a hurricane. You can tut-tut all you want, but that's just how it is, and I'm honest enough to admit that I'm not going to give up extremely enjoyable and fulfilling opportunities for nothing.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:30
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How are u posted:
This is an odd statement, because "the action of one individual doesn't matter" is the rationale people use for not voting.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:39
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barkbell posted:Is hunting all your own meat a good compromise? As an individual yes. It’s one of those things where if Jimmy hunted instead of buying beef from the store, Jimmy’s footprint would be smaller, but it’s not sustainable if that’s how everybody got their meat (unless it was also coupled with a society wide reduction in population and meat eating habits). Burt Buckle fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 15:42
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barkbell posted:Is hunting all your own meat a good compromise? Unless you're hunting people and/or factory-farm cattle+chickens there's nowhere near enough wild animals to go around. Which underscores the outsized impact human activity has on earth's ecosystem, the main topic of this thread.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:43
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barkbell posted:Is hunting all your own meat a good compromise? Hunting uses more calories which then causes more meat to be eaten. The ethical action is to lay motionless on the floor and have a nutrient slurry piped directly to your veins, bypassing the grossly inefficient human gut. In the climate utopia, all digestion will be performed offsite in industrial bioreactors that take in garbage and put out actual bricks of carbon and the nutritious delight we've come to call Al Gore's Warning.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:43
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The fact that if everybody hunted, the non-human mammal population would vanish extremely fast, is good evidence that the human population is way way way too high. Not having kids is the greatest individual action one can take. I guess that or suicide.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:49
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How are u posted:
You could use the "nothing matters" argument to rationalize anything. The earth is just a speck of dust after all. The truth is, every person who takes the environment seriously and changes their behavior for the better, makes it a bit harder for people to rationalize their inaction in this way ("look, everyone else is doing this, why shouldn't I?") We have a ways to go with shaming people for climate crimes, but please realize that every system is made of individuals, and that nothing happens on a systemic level that did not first happen on the individual level.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:55
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How are u posted:
do you also dump your motor oil out in the sewer and throw your trash out the window because your individual actions don't matter? dumping 700kg of carbon into the atmosphere should rank somewhere in your brain alongside taking a 2 gallon bucket of anti-freeze and pouring it into a duck pond StabbinHobo fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 15:59
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How are u posted:
So it’s the all-consuming bugaboo of your life, but when given a choice between doing worse than nothing about it and doing nothing about it, you gleefully seize the opportunity to do worse than nothing. All right. It’s also notable how quickly you change the scope at which you look at things. No, it’s true, your contribution to the global amount of carbon in the air is a mouse fart in a hurricane, but guess what: your extreme enjoyment and personal fulfillment are themselves no more than a drop in the ocean of misery and suffering that climate change is/will be causing and it’s about as worthless. On the global scale your contribution to the issue is insignificant ; on the personal scale you’re a bloated pig. You make the appropriate noises about how it makes you so anxious but there’s no substance to it, and you just won’t make a minimal effort. You’re about as hypocritical as an evangelical who gets their daughter an abortion.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:07
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For real I hope that my insults hurt your feelings, hurt them enough that it cancels out the joy you had at you weekend trip in Europe, that when you talk about that trip the memory is forever tainted by how a stranger (from Western Europe no less) insulted you about it, and that at the end of the day you’re left with only your wasted ton of carbon on your weird carbon/happiness balance sheet. Hopefully that’ll help you put a bit more perspective in your life.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:19
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Hey now, insults don't work. We need to build bridges, stand together as one people, use reasonable arguments appealing to the person's better nature, otherwise you might just push him to start rolling coal with your aggression. It's our responsibility to maintain decorum. After all, every great social change in history has been brought upon by maintaining decorum and providing calm, friendly, reasoned arguments that avoid rocking the boat too much.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:23
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Flowers For Algeria posted:For real I hope that my insults hurt your feelings, hurt them enough that it cancels out the joy you had at you weekend trip in Europe, that when you talk about that trip the memory is forever tainted by how a stranger (from Western Europe no less) insulted you about it, and that at the end of the day you’re left with only your wasted ton of carbon on your weird carbon/happiness balance sheet. the human race is an evolutionary accident that needs to perish ASAP, so when you think about it, you're really the bad guy here
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Oct 17, 2018 16:35
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Conspiratiorist posted:Promoting political/systemic action is not mutually exclusive with positive individual lifestyle changes, and makes you seem a hell of a lot less like a stupid hypocrite. It has nothing to do with being hypocritical, I'm just pointing out that the people who say poo poo like "ALL WE NEED TO DO IS STOP HAVING BABIES AND ALSO NEVER EAT MEAT" are stupid idiots because thats literally bullshit that won't do anything. And again, I do a lot of the easier individual footprint reduction things simply by virtue of being a poor. The problems start occurring when we expect other people to do those individual things just because we can. Like the dude agreearguing with me said earlier, most people can't afford solar panels on their roofs or electric cars or bike to work until we change the way we've organized our society to make those things more feasible. Also lol if you think democratic politicians are going to do that on a timeline that is <12 years even if they literally win everything they'll just do what they've always done which is toss out scraps when the left gets noisy and consolidate money and power in the hands of themselves and their donors. I mean its easy to say something like "realistically we should all just quit our jobs and every morning we wake up eat and kill at least one other person because thats probably the quickest way to solve climate change." But how many of us are actually going to do that.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:38
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Flowers For Algeria posted:For real I hope that my insults hurt your feelings, hurt them enough that it cancels out the joy you had at you weekend trip in Europe, that when you talk about that trip the memory is forever tainted by how a stranger (from Western Europe no less) insulted you about it, and that at the end of the day you’re left with only your wasted ton of carbon on your weird carbon/happiness balance sheet. You guys have insulted me for like a year (I'm gonna pet a german cat in a few weeks!) and it hasn't worked, because personal consumption still isn't anything but a distraction and sad sack demands of penance based ecofacism still aren't what is needed. A country like france still has like 1/3rd the per capita carbon footprint and did so by sensible application of nuclear power and a focus on trains that is reasonable where applicable without any weird train fetishism and reasonably dense cities without extreme demands of vengeance against suburban or rural people. Climate change is a technical problem with technical solutions and demands people try to stray from finding real solutions with weird austerity based ones that clearly are never going to work so that you can be all smug when they obviously never work are dumb. The solution to global warming is nuclear power, fusion power, better batteries, electric cars, better trains, better solar panels, actually researched and advocated for. Not lame demands of global permanent austerity and being miserable so you can feel superior for cutting your footprint .0001%.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:46
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Yes, thank you, the fact that you’re a wasteful rear end in a top hat and about as proud of it as Bubba is proud of rolling coal at a passing cyclist isn’t lost to us. You don’t need to remind us.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:52
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I don't see a problem with critically evaluating the relative impact a change has on your lifestyle versus the impact on the environment and choosing a less emissions-friendly choice (like I truly don't care if someone has kids or routinely uses air travel) but being openly boastful that you don't care at all whether you're a wasteful douche is ridiculous
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Oct 17, 2018 17:03
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Doorknob Slobber posted:It has nothing to do with being hypocritical, I'm just pointing out that the people who say poo poo like "ALL WE NEED TO DO IS STOP HAVING BABIES AND ALSO NEVER EAT MEAT" are stupid idiots because thats literally bullshit that won't do anything. if you were to never eat meat for the rest of your life you could save about 50 tons. quote:I mean its easy to say something like "realistically we should all just quit our jobs and every morning we wake up eat and kill at least one other person because thats probably the quickest way to solve climate change." But how many of us are actually going to do that.
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Oct 17, 2018 17:17
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it is amazing how there is an almost perfect correlation between the loudest "gently caress you i'm getting mine" assholes in this thread and DSA badges. are they given out ironically or something?
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Oct 17, 2018 17:18
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I don't see a problem with critically evaluating the relative impact a change has on your lifestyle versus the impact on the environment and choosing a less emissions-friendly choice (like I truly don't care if someone has kids or routinely uses air travel) but being openly boastful that you don't care at all whether you're a wasteful douche is ridiculous The assholes are the people selling snake oil home remedies and fantastical religious movements that distract from the real problems and the real solutions that needs to happen.
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Oct 17, 2018 17:23
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The assholes are the people selling snake oil home remedies and fantastical religious movements that distract from the real problems and the real solutions that needs to happen. yes, but also you as well
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Oct 17, 2018 17:46
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StabbinHobo posted:no one said anything like this, what you're doing is blurting out extreme nonsense statements to deflect from the nagging realization of how wrong you are telling people to not have children because we can solve climate change that way is pretty much equal to that and its what you and a bunch of posters in this thread keep saying. You will never, ever convince enough people to stop having children to make a real impact. It will literally never happen. And from the standpoint of the state you're going full fascism to legislate who gets to have babies and who doesn't so goooooooooood luck. In the end the only people who benefit from climate change 'activists' or whatever you want to call people doing passive poo poo like not doing something are quiverfull religious chuds who will repopulate the world with homeschooled shithead climate deniers. There's a reason why most of the time when people talk about individual footprint emissions its literally the same five CNN/MSNBC talking points and there's a reason the media pushes those things so hard instead of big sweeping ideas that might actually save us in the very short period of time we have left. Its also why you don't hear people saying to just stop buying new poo poo every year when your current poo poo is fine. Last I checked industry/manufacturing was somewhere between 1/4th or 1/5th of emissions which is about on par to agriculture and more than transpo. But stopping the purchasing of new poo poo is probably also one of the most threatening things to our current power structure. Again I'll talk about some of things that I think probably would make a reasonable impact and have a lasting meaningful effect, at least far more than encouraging people to not have children. Specifically, rebuilding our transportation systems to move away from privately owned vehicles and to a large fleet of publicly owned shared electric vehicles(no more private vehicles on public roads!), encouraging people to move into more dense areas(stop building single family homes on every square inch of land and a massive buyback program for SFH, I think its 50-80 tons per home), transitioning into nuclear and solar power, some kind of rules for manufacturing of goods to be durable and last longer. The state has the means and technology to make all those things happen in <12 years, but they won't because they have no interest in solving climate change or fixing anything because the way it is now benefits them and their donors far too much and they'll all be dead before it matters to them. Step one pretty much has to be smash the state, step two has to be re-organizing the way almost everything works. Also I think its great that instead of actually having an argument all you can really do is make personal attacks. I'm not going to sit with you and quibble about all the things you or I individually do like some stupid loving carbon footprint badge because that is bait dude
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Oct 17, 2018 18:08
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Doorknob Slobber posted:telling people to not have children because we can solve climate change that way is pretty much equal to that and its what you and a bunch of posters in this thread keep saying... there is no reason to humor you with reading your wall of text if you're going to not read the thread and then lie about what you did read.
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Oct 17, 2018 18:28
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