Warhammer 40,000: 8th Time's the Charm

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 40,000: 8th Time's the Charm

Living Image: Apr 24, 2010; HORSE'S ASS

Maneck posted:

You are ranting at multiple people to read more carefully without having bothered to check the rule book. Leaving aside flyers, the rules include two separate rules respecting measurement. Both rules work for both based and baseless models, but they have different mechanics.

The movement (path of travel) rule requires determining the maximum distance traveled of any point on the base or hull:

The distance (as the crow flies) rule requires determining the closest (minimum) distance between two bases. Where a model has no base, it specifies to determine the closest distance to a point on the hull:

There is no general rule that says "if a model has a base, you measure to the base, ONLY if it doesn't have one do you measure to the hall". It's in your head. You've taken a detail of the distance between models rule and generalized it - but that's inappropriate, because the part you're trying to generalize is explicitly for determining minimum distance, which doesn't help with movement.

You're right about this though.

The rule on page 3 is referencing back to the rule on page 2. There aren't two separate rules for measuring distance and I'm sorry, but you are not the cleverest boy no matter how much you want to be.

R0ckfish posted:

This is tangentially related, but I have always been against the idea stuff like RG/other -1 traits. I am fine with units with -1/-2 as part of their rules, since you have to pay for it and typically the units have some compromise about having it, but the 'free' army wide ones just make no sense to me as it is often worth ~20% of the cost of units with it built in!

You have my axe.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 17:28

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# ? May 17, 2024 09:34

Harkano: Jun 5, 2005

More news on Speed Waaghs. Seems like it'll be a keyword for strats, traits etc?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/17/17th-oct-orks-da-vehiclesgw-homepage-post-3/

edit:

lol at LeakResponse

Harkano fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Oct 17, 2018

# ? Oct 17, 2018 17:31

xtothez: Jan 4, 2004; College Slice

Harkano posted:

lol at LeakResponse

Quick someone leak chapter approved so GW starts posting the points changes

# ? Oct 17, 2018 17:41

ro5s: Dec 27, 2012; A happy little mouse!

The simmering grudges between posters are what makes the 40k thread special.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 17:46

Legendary Ptarmigan: Sep 21, 2007; Need a light?

Regarding the conga line, what's wrong with fighting at the squad level but having squad movement be tied to a Squad Leader?

Squad Coherency: All models in a squad must end their move or charge within X inches of the Squad Leader, who makes the first move or charge. For squads with 5 or fewer models, X=6 in; 10 or fewer, X=8 in; 20 or fewer, X=10 in, 21 or greater , X=12 in. A squad is only eligible for aura bonuses if the Squad Leader is within the specified range of the model providing the aura.

Almost every unit in the game has a Sergeant or equivalent model already. Tyranids would need some reworking.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 17:58

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

GW is opposed to bookkeeping to some degree.

If I kill a devastator sergeant to keep a lascannon, can they not move now? Do I drop a token next to the new one?

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:02

Dr Hemulen: Jan 25, 2003

DrPop posted:

This is cool, I really like the main color.

Thanks. It's a colour I've been trying to replicate for quite a while without success:

I showed the image to Caleb, and he just went: Use these colours and hit it with this ink :science:

The original might be a little bit more orange, but I'm happy with this.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:08

Chiwie: Oct 21, 2010; DROP YOUR COAT AND GRAB YOUR TOES, I'LL SHOW YOU WHERE THE WILD GOOSE GOES!!!!

Maneck posted:

I dont get it. I don't think you know what you are talking about sir.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:10

Immanentized: Mar 17, 2009

I dropped off the discord to study and now don't have a link, can someone PM me an invite please? Wanna get back into talkin hams.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:17

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

quote:

Almost every unit in the game has a Sergeant or equivalent model already. Tyranids would need some reworking.

And Necrons. And Conscripts. Wraith units. Tau units (leader optional). Vehicle squads like Marine Speeders. Sanguinary Guard and Death Company.
Poxwalkers. More stuff than you think.

It works in Legion because Legion was designed for it from the ground up.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:18

Maneck: Sep 11, 2011

ro5s posted:

The simmering grudges between posters are what makes the 40k thread special.

Claiming that a rule exists, demanding that the other guy "read the rules", then launching into ad hominems when he reads the rules text aloud, is a permanent fixture of the 40k scene.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:35

richyp: Dec 2, 2004; Grumpy old man

I'm a non-player here's how I read it.

Does it have a base?

If yes, measure between closest points on base
If no, measure the nearest point on the model/vehicle.

Am I right?

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:43

PierreTheMime: Dec 9, 2004; Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!; Buglord

Yes and I�m not sure how you can read it any other way. It�s pretty explicit.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:50

Salynne: Oct 25, 2007

Maneck posted:

Claiming that a rule exists, demanding that the other guy "read the rules", then launching into ad hominems when he reads the rules text aloud, is a permanent fixture of the 40k scene.

The movement rule is written in such a way that you can pivot and turn as long you never violate getting more range towards/away from something than your movement distance allows. It's so you can drive around a corner, but you can't flip the rear end end of your tank out further than the movement distance from where it began.

The distance measuring rules are the distance measuring rules, and apply to shooting, movement, whatever.

It's all written in such a way that you can use whatever bases or base your tanks or whatever you want with zero gameplay impact.

The only time the base size starts to matter is auras (because you extend/shrink the surface area of an aura as well as the amount of models that can fit into auras) as well as melee ranks (because smaller bases make it a little easier to fit into tight places to get more ranks in real world scenarios with terrain and other intervening models clogging things up).

Neither of those has any serious gameplay ramifications on whether you win or lose except maybe in exceptionally close games.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:57

TheBigAristotle: Feb 8, 2007; I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money.
I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.; Grimey Drawer

PierreTheMime posted:

Yes and I�m not sure how you can read it any other way. It�s pretty explicit.

Where there's a will...

# ? Oct 17, 2018 18:58

Skarsnik: Oct 21, 2008; I...AM...RUUUDE!

Hey 40k dudes

I only paint these days so don't really keep up to date with what's going on gaming wise

Really want to paint one of the new ork buggies, is it something that's going to be available to buy separately or will it only be part of a new boxed game?

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:00

Living Image: Apr 24, 2010; HORSE'S ASS

Skarsnik posted:

Hey 40k dudes

I only paint these days so don't really keep up to date with what's going on gaming wise

Really want to paint one of the new ork buggies, is it something that's going to be available to buy separately or will it only be part of a new boxed game?

Two of them are supposedly "exclusive" to the Speed Freeks box although who knows how long that will last. The rest will be available separately.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:01

Skarsnik: Oct 21, 2008; I...AM...RUUUDE!

Nice one, ta

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:02

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Corrode posted:

Two of them are supposedly "exclusive" to the Speed Freeks box although who knows how long that will last. The rest will be available separately.

If it's like the Chaos Chosen or Cultists from DV, exclusivity will last forever.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:06

long-ass nips Diane: Dec 13, 2010; Breathe.

berzerkmonkey posted:

If it's like the Chaos Chosen or Cultists from DV, exclusivity will last forever.

They don't make sprue errors like that anymore so it probably won't be forever.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:16

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Skarsnik posted:

Hey 40k dudes

I only paint these days so don't really keep up to date with what's going on gaming wise

Really want to paint one of the new ork buggies, is it something that's going to be available to buy separately or will it only be part of a new boxed game?

eBay

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:23

Sab669: Sep 24, 2009

Corrode posted:

Two of them are supposedly "exclusive" to the Speed Freeks box although who knows how long that will last. The rest will be available separately.

Ugh, really? That's lame. Do we know which?

Played by Death Guard vs IG in Kill Team last night. Take Prisoners is a stupid mission. He just sat 14 dudes in a corner and readied all of them every turn.

By round 6 my Plague Spewer, Flail of Corruption, and 1 Poxwalker finally got close enough but I wasn't able to thin their numbers enough to capture anyone.

But it was still a super fun game, I don't think I've ever made as many Disgustingly Resilient rolls on my last 3 games combined as I did last night. Combined with him routinely Wounding on 5's I felt proper Nurgley.

We ended up tieing because we both had 100 points but it was definitely one of the most fun games I've had in Kill Team.

Much better than my previous match of DG vs Tau on the Assassinate mission (he was the defender). That was like storming Normandy :suicide:

Sab669 fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 17, 2018

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:36

Maneck: Sep 11, 2011

richyp posted:

I'm a non-player here's how I read it.

Does it have a base?

If yes, measure between closest points on base
If no, measure the nearest point on the model/vehicle.

Am I right?

That very clearly describes how to measure the distance between two objects.

The issue is that measuring between two objects doesn't help very much in determine how far something can move. I say doing that relies on measuring path traveled (which is not a "distance between") and the rules signal this by shifting from looking for the minimum distance, to looking for the maximum.

Mine is clearly the minority view.

The distinction would matter mostly where a high velocity vehicle has to do a punch of pivots.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:48

head58: Apr 1, 2013

Sab669 posted:

Ugh, really? That's lame. Do we know which?

Kustom Boosta Blasta and Shokkjump Dragsta.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 19:59

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

Dr Hemulen posted:

Thanks. It's a colour I've been trying to replicate for quite a while without success:

I showed the image to Caleb, and he just went: Use these colours and hit it with this ink
The original might be a little bit more orange, but I'm happy with this.

It looks great.

Have you tried Vallejo's scrufulous brown? Looks like that's the color

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:04

Sab669: Sep 24, 2009

head58 posted:

Kustom Boosta Blasta and Shokkjump Dragsta.

Ugh. The two I like the most. Why did I decide to get back into GW games the year my budget is the smallest.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:11

richyp: Dec 2, 2004; Grumpy old man

Sab669 posted:

Ugh. The two I like the most. Why did I decide to get back into GW games the year my budget is the smallest.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

eBay

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:12

Safety Factor: Oct 31, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Maneck posted:

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:16

PierreTheMime: Dec 9, 2004; Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!; Buglord

richyp posted:

eBay

As someone who�s done this many times, eBay specifically right before, during, or immediately after release. If you wait, all the fairly priced ones will be snatched up and replaced with people trying to scalp you for a large markup because you missed the spaceman boat.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:20

Hixson: Mar 27, 2009

Phew this game sounds hard

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:20

richyp: Dec 2, 2004; Grumpy old man

Hixson posted:

Phew this game sounds hard

The suggestion of a template may be our saviour, yay templates.

Safety Factor posted:

You missed a key measurement

richyp fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Oct 17, 2018

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:22

Maneck: Sep 11, 2011

Safety Factor posted:

Yes, distance versus displacement. Although using correct terminology makes things worse because the page 2 rule is "measuring distance".

Hixson posted:

Phew this game sounds hard

The starting point for being wrong is trying to get anything right.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:29

Ayn Marx: Dec 21, 2012

Hixson posted:

Phew this game sounds hard

hand

lol

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:35

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

Maneck posted:

Yes, distance versus displacement. Although using correct terminology makes things worse because the page 2 rule is "measuring distance".

When you really think about it for a unit to move any distance it must first make it to to half that distance, and before that, half of that distance, and half that distance first, meaning you must complete an infinite number of movements before reaching the measured distance making it all irrelevant because this proves can it's logically impossible for a unit to move any distance.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:41