|
Mango Polo posted:For all the poo poo I've given to GW about their past (and current!) incompetence, I at least appreciate that they are not afraid to involve politics and make a stand. I'm trying to determine what level you're playing at here but I'm gonna need you to read the title of that account again e: unless I am the one getting played here, in which case, i'm glad this is at the top of the page
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 12:07 |
|
|
Any not-star-wars space combat games alive at the moment? I was hopeful for Dropfleet, but it's gone all UK-only.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:18
|
|
|
Friendly reminder that it's totally fine to like and enjoy playing bad games I'm just posting this because I can physically feel someone about to explode
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:25
|
|
|
Moola posted:Friendly reminder that it's totally fine to like and enjoy playing bad games We all do, really
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
Moola posted:Friendly reminder that it's totally fine to like and enjoy playing bad games  I'm worried everyone concerned with the levels of fun people should be having in their game system of choice might burst a blood vessel or puncture a body pillow in a fit of rage or some poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
LeSquide posted:How are the Rogue Trader starstrider guys? My dude, they are rad as hell. One of them is a dog.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
Moola posted:Friendly reminder that it's totally fine to like and enjoy playing bad games  It's also fine to enjoy dissecting and criticizing good and bad games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:41
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:My dude, they are rad as hell. One of them is a dog.  I'm gonna regret this, but... what's the best thread to talk about Kill Team in?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
Len posted:It sounds like every edition of 40k is the worst edition You're not wrong. TheChirurgeon posted:My dude, they are rad as hell. One of them is a dog.  And a good dog too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
MCPeePants posted:Boring Runewars shilling incoming, do not read! This sounds really interesting, thanks for the summary.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
S.J. posted:I'm trying to determine what level you're playing at here but I'm gonna need you to read the title of that account again oh god damnit 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:47
|
|
|
Rune wars is the best rank and file fantasy system i've played to date. while there's people around here that will play it, it's mostly people who played x-wing/imperial assault and, well, 2.0 and legion are out now. Would've liked to see a napoleonic take on it via star wars clone wars because that's how they seemed to be doing things.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
Mango Polo posted:oh god damnit Days since last time goon fooled by Games Werkshop: 000. gently caress, we would have all gotten a day off if we hit 2.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
Someone tell me bad things about Runewars now because it sounds kinda rad. What's the buy-in like? Is there a thread?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:54
|
|
|
food court bailiff posted:Someone tell me bad things about Runewars now because it sounds kinda rad. What's the buy-in like? Is there a thread? Seems like the main bad thing, as a few have said, is the tiny community, so finding multiple people to play with might be hard. I've enjoyed talking to FLGS owners about how 40k resurgence squeezed the life out of most other games. I just moved to a new area and my main FLGS seems to be healthier and I've seen GW, Bolt Action, Legion, and a better overall mix of games being played. Also had a fun conversation when visiting a GW store in another state. The guy running it was surprised when I mentioned Necromunda and said it was dead in his area, which didn't surprise me, but the candor from a GW store guy did.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
food court bailiff posted:Someone tell me bad things about Runewars now because it sounds kinda rad. What's the buy-in like? Is there a thread? There's a lot of little triggered abilities with tokens, which is endemic to FFG's design philosophy. X-wing 2.0 has even more of them now and while some are neat design-wise, they're rather lovely in practice in a physical medium.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
food court bailiff posted:Someone tell me bad things about Runewars now because it sounds kinda rad. What's the buy-in like? Is there a thread? There's like 3 people worldwide that play it and FFG released 1.5 factions for it and peaced out for a year. It may or may not be a good game, but you might struggle to find a scene for it. Check if other people near you already play it or would be interested in it before buying in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
LeSquide posted:
Probably https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3804679
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
food court bailiff posted:Someone tell me bad things about Runewars now because it sounds kinda rad. What's the buy-in like? Is there a thread? Upgrade cards: much like X-wing, units have various upgrade slots, and new ones are released over time. Unlike X-wing, everything is available in-faction, so if you're a human player you'll never need to buy elf models just to get some cardboard. Still, maybe there's an upgrade in the scouts box that you really want to use on your heavy cavalry, and you don't want to use scouts. Obviously proxies are cool and good, and the community is small enough that no one can afford to be picky about their opponents, but technically official events require official product. FFG component syndrome: if you hate tokens, cards, and templates, this game will bother you. Proprietary dice do their job well, but it's one more fuckin' thing. Also they recently (presumably coinciding with X-wing 2.0) switched from mini upgrade cards to full-sized, so it's a mix. Presumably there will be full-sized reprints? Community: the game is not popular. FFG bungled the release pretty bad by shifting all production to Legion, so the four factions will only be up to par (each with 3 heroes and 5 unit types) next month. You may have trouble finding a scene locally. Here is an under-utilized map of players and communities. If there aren't locals playing it, expect a serious uphill battle getting any traction. Buy in is pretty good as minis games go, but options cost. The game plays at 200 points and the starters are about 100. Focusing on heroes and upgrades, you can get a full if inflexible army for $150USD retail. You can play at 100 points for the "cheap intro", but the game doesn't really work at that level outside of a basic introduction. The game's rocky start has made for some excellent distributor/personal clearouts though, so you may find some real deals online. There is no SA thread, the FFG forums and discord is where most discussion takes place. That said, I am slavishly devoted to the game, so happy to answer any questions. I did a big effortpost about the factions a while back if you want to take a peek: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/278308-want-to-learn-more-about-the-factions-read-on/ MCPeePants fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Oct 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
Mango Polo posted:For all the poo poo I've given to GW about their past (and current!) incompetence, I at least appreciate that they are not afraid to involve politics and make a stand. Ghazghkull Mak Uruk Thraka
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:42
|
|
|
Iron Crowned posted:Orks always win, that's all you need to know Orks couldn’t even win the month that got named for them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:45
|
|
|
S.J. posted:Oh my God how did I miss a new death thread? Jesus. anyways whatever your favorite miniature game is, it sucks, and here's why, Gaslands. Come at me bro.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:46
|
|
|
Archenteron posted:Ghazghkull Mak Uruk Thraka Margaret Thatcher, for anyone unfamiliar Indolent Bastard posted:Gaslands. Come at me bro. You get a pass.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:47
|
|
|
Gaslands is high on my list of games to try. My kids have a poo poo-ton of Hotwheels and Matchbox cars that are itchin' to get repurposed for this game. I must also admit that I am intrigued by Gangs of Rome. I think next time I go to a decent-sized convention, I'll give that one a try.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:54
|
|
|
I live near FFG so if they ever actually supported their own products I could definitely find a group but the only thing on their calendar for Runewars right now is the world champs, so 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 19:57
|
|
|
Indolent Bastard posted:Gaslands. Come at me bro. I need to get into Gaslands, it sounds like the kinda game where I could just make a bunch of cars and force people to play Hot Wheels with me
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:14
|
|
|
To all the people pimping RuneWars, would you say Legion is equally as good? I saw RuneWars have some life in my area initially, but its like almost completely dead now. Legion had insane hype at start, but it seems like people moved on from it right quick? I was interested in both, but if you are going to ask me to paint miniatures for a game I need to feel confident it will be played for years to come.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
Mugaaz posted:To all the people pimping RuneWars, would you say Legion is equally as good? I saw RuneWars have some life in my area initially, but its like almost completely dead now. Legion had insane hype at start, but it seems like people moved on from it right quick? I was interested in both, but if you are going to ask me to paint miniatures for a game I need to feel confident it will be played for years to come. Doesn’t legion have an incredibly limited model range.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
Iron Crowned posted:I need to get into Gaslands, it sounds like the kinda game where I could just make a bunch of cars and force people to play Hot Wheels with me https://www.spreaker.com/user/10238956/episode-40-gaslands-and-the-perils-of-co Start at 27:40 Gaslands is loads of fun and you can get digital rules for cheap and then you just need cars. Of course I have made terrain, modded cars, made my own laser cut templates and custom dice, but that's because I'm 80% hobby/crafting and only 20% playing an actual game, but when I do play it's great. Always follow the rule of carnage! "In Gaslands, if a rule is unclear, choose whichever option results in the most carnage for all concerned. This is The Rule of Carnage." Pg. 6 Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Oct 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:44
|
|
|
Mugaaz posted:To all the people pimping RuneWars, would you say Legion is equally as good? I saw RuneWars have some life in my area initially, but its like almost completely dead now. Legion had insane hype at start, but it seems like people moved on from it right quick? I was interested in both, but if you are going to ask me to paint miniatures for a game I need to feel confident it will be played for years to come. I haven't played Legion, but after watching a few games it looks incredibly boring to me
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
food court bailiff posted:I live near FFG so if they ever actually supported their own products I could definitely find a group but the only thing on their calendar for Runewars right now is the world champs, so Very cool that loving guild ball has a scheduled night but not Runewars. That is one of the bigger Runewars communities, and apparently they do in fact play at FFG, just not on a fixed day. If you feel like wasting $75, you should come to worlds! Mugaaz posted:To all the people pimping RuneWars, would you say Legion is equally as good? I saw RuneWars have some life in my area initially, but its like almost completely dead now. Legion had insane hype at start, but it seems like people moved on from it right quick? I was interested in both, but if you are going to ask me to paint miniatures for a game I need to feel confident it will be played for years to come. I have never played Legion, and my resentment at the way it was released has probably poisoned my impression, but no, I would not say it is anywhere close to as good. That said, it has a very different design mentality - it wants to be a platoon-scale cinematic game in which you move individual models behind cover and etc. It does have some sensible things like only measuring movement for your unit leader and then placing grunts within x distance, and it has a semi-random alternating activation system that I think I've heard good things about? Anyway I'm not really qualified to answer this question, but they're very different experiences. FFG's track record is not exactly perfect, so I wouldn't put considerable money on either of them lasting indefinitely (though Runewars is their own IP so its threshold for success is lower).
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:52
|
|
|
Legion is garbo and Star Wars is for children.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:12
|
|
|
Hustlin Floh posted:Legion is garbo and Star Wars is for children. Pre the last Jedi I might have fought you But I got no fight left in me
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
Hustlin Floh posted:Legion is garbo and Star Wars is for children. I started watching the lost Empire Strikes Back documentary that was recently rediscovered, and a few minutes in one of the lead designers for the movie explicitly stated that Star Wars is a fairy tale for children. Which is pretty great considering how many thousands of hours of star wars criticism has been put on youtube by greasy 35 year old men within the last year. But seriously, whats even the deal with Legion? MY roommate bought it months ago and has never touched it. I've never actually seen a discussion of the game outside of model chat or how FFG is a weird company. Is it good? How do lasers work? If it didn't have STAR WARS on it, would anyone have even taken a second glance at it?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:18
|
|
|
I forgot it existed until today.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:27
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:But seriously, whats even the deal with Legion? MY roommate bought it months ago and has never touched it. I've never actually seen a discussion of the game outside of model chat or how FFG is a weird company. Is it good? How do lasers work? If it didn't have STAR WARS on it, would anyone have even taken a second glance at it? I like it, but the rollout felt rushed. It would have been better if they’d had more units available at launch but then I’d be complaining about how much money I had to drop the first month. They’ve been basically releasing a new unit for each faction each month since launch and they will hit the sweet spot in a month or two when the melee intensive units come out. Right now it’s only Rebellion and Empire, Clone Wars era factions come out next year. It has a pretty cool semi randomized mission/deployment/conditions mechanic where those features are dealt from a deck and chosen by the players. Keeps games from feeling too static, one of my complaints with Warmachine. The unit activation system is pretty interesting as well. Depending on what card you play for initiative you may be able to designate up to 3 units that you can choose when they act (the game alternates activations between players). Any units other than those designated are selected randomly. So if you really want to control when your flamethrower troopers go during the round your best designate them. The big cons where the game has had events this year - GenCon and NoVa - had big problems with insufficient terrain on the tables. This is a game that benefits from a crap ton of terrain and ffg (or whoever was running the events for them I can’t remember) really didn’t have enough so it looked sad. That was pretty bad press for the game. It’s fun, but the Star Wars branding is what really hooked me in. As more models have come out the meta has been shifting fairly quickly. I think once the first full year of releases are out and the game is more fully realized it will feel more stable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:40
|
|
|
I said it earlier in the thread, but getting the releases from China to the USA/EU markets appears to be causing lots of delays in both the schedule and restocking. I think that has dampened enthusiasm for some people because nerds hate waiting, especially if they find out that other people already have a thing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:53
|
|
|
Yeah Legion is what I'll step up to bat for as well. The combination of how match setups are decided, command cards/the randomized command pool vs direct orders, and the alternating unit activation among all the other little bits and pieces come together really cohesively. There's a lot to think about in terms of order of activation, exactly what actions to take with a unit, and what to prioritize with the enemy units considering how they allocated direct orders and how you expect them to sequence things and respond. It certainly is still suffering from a lack of options, so there was a big explosion of interest at launch earlier in the year that has waned a bit, especially since there is a lot of overlap with X-Wing players who have had that whole scene revitalized by 2.0. It would be nice if FFG stayed committed and the regular releases combined with the addition of new factions next year let them regain momentum, but I'm not going to hold my breath. It's still up in the air as to whether it's another Runewars or not.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
I am bored at work, so let's talk unit activation in wargames for a bit! 40K pretty squarely occupies one end of the spectrum, where I resolve all of the activations and effects for all of my units, then you do the same (classic IGO-UGO). Games like this almost minimize the interaction between players. Aside from melee and the inclusion of Overwatch in a previous edition (6th I think?), there is very little you can do that can affect your opponent's turn. 8th has introduced Stratagems (powered by a limited resource) that change this somewhat. I think this is 100% to the good, but the effect is somewhat limited. However, since your entire force goes at once with almost no response, alpha strike is a huge game balance issue. Infinity essentially uses an IGO-UGO mechanic, but unit activation is based off a resource pool rather than strictly by unit. I mean, yes, you could use each order generated by a unit in your force on that unit alone, but that largely defeats the purpose. However, in Infinity, your opponent's units are always given a chance to respond to your actions. The "active" player has a bonus that tilts the odds in their favor, but you can absolutely get your units shot up and killed in your own turn. In this way, both players are constantly engaged regardless of whose "turn" it is. Alpha strike is still a thing, though I think it's harder to pull off effectively on a consistent basis. X-Wing and Wings/Sails of Glory use an interesting mechanic where movements, actions, or orders are planned ahead of time, then executed in an order dictated by some other aspect of the game (an initiative stat, random chance, position, etc). These games are interesting because you're not playing such a reactive game. Also, unless you are making a concentrated effort to only play a force that has a very high initiative, units will activate in some kind of alternating order and alpha strike is far less likely. It's not impossible, though, and getting blown up before you get to execute your  order is super loving annoying.Bolt Action uses a random draw unit activation mechanic, which is interesting in that it makes alpha strike basically impossible. Unfortunately, it imposes its own set of difficulties, not least of which is that forces with more units gain tactical flexibility almost for free (because the draw only indicates that one of your units activates, but which unit activates is left up to the player. The use of the "Ambush" order does allow you to affect what happens during one of your opponent's activations however, so that can increase inter-player engagement. Sharp Practice 2 takes Bolt Action's activation draw mechanic a step farther, with each activation draw tied to a particular unit. There is a fudge-factor mechanic built in to allow you to activate units out-of-sequence, but it is a limited resource that is also used for other things (like powering special unit abilities). This random activation and ability to interrupt definitely increases player engagement, as there's not really such a thing as "the other guy's turn." The game also has a mechanic whereby the end-of-turn is one of the chits that can be drawn, which means that it is entirely possible that you won't get to activate a given unit in a given turn. This has some really interesting tactical ramifications and presents players with some difficult choices. The player with more units does still gain an advantage in terms of statistically drawing one of their units, but this effect is mitigated by the extra fudge-factor resources being the same for both players regardless of army composition. Also, MSUs are generally less effective than larger formations. Chain of Command poses a different problem - it's still IGO-UGO, but each turn players generate a pool of unit activation resources, and what you can do in each turn is based on how you choose to spend those resources. So if you reallyreallyreally need unit A to high-tail it into cover, you can prioritize that over activating other units. Further, the inclusion of overwatch, interrupts, and ambushes into the game means players are more engaged during the opponent's turn. Interestingly, alpha strikes are basically never a thing in Chain of Command because deployment happens the first time a unit activates, and the game has a novel mechanic for how deployment points are determined. Finally, Chain of Command fucks with turn order, and it's possible to have IGO-IGO-UGO. Unfortunately, as written it's also theoretically possible (although statistically unlikely) to have IGO-UGO-UGO-UGO-UGO-oh-poo poo-I-lose. For me, the big things I look for in games are player engagement (can I do something to affect my opponent's turn, or if I can't are the turns at least mercifully short?) and mitigating the effects the alpha strike. And I think the reason for this is that over the (too many) years, these kinds of things are the most un-fun I've had in table-top wargames. Losing a game before you ever get to do anything with your lovingly-painted mans sucks, as does being able to totally check out and go make a sandwich while your opponent spends 45 minutes moving his massive pile of Orks. I'm excited that Kill Team is using an alternating activation scheme, and I'd like to see more of that innovation in the future. Hell, I'd love to see something like a bidding scheme, where you have a pool of activation resources and you're forced to choose between activating units quickly or activation all of your units. I think there's lots of room for new and interesting unit activation mechanics, because straight IGO-UGO is so often such a drag. Ilor fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Oct 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 12:07 |
|
|
Isn't the Alpha Strike in Infinity a good thing? There are so many missions that favor going last. I thought the entire struggle was supposed to be as the first active player that you *need* to alpha strike hard enough to nullify their ability to act last on the final turn and score objectives with units that would otherwise be immediately destroyed if the game went another round. It feel pretty fair to me. In a pure annihilation maybe not, but in scenario play alpha striking doesn't feel overpowered at all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:56
|
|