There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

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Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Victory Position posted:

some folks go through a second puberty

Under conditions that necessitate degrowth you only get one puberty, and you still can't have it.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 11:59

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# ? May 10, 2024 02:31

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

thanks obama (the hits were in 2015)

https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1052547185513062400

# ? Oct 17, 2018 14:11

Serf: May 5, 2011

The Soviet Economy After the New Economic Policy

this was an interesting read. i'm not as familiar as i'd like to be with soviet history, and this seemed like a pretty broad overview of the nep's successes and failures

# ? Oct 17, 2018 14:40

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

thanks obama (the hits were in 2015)

https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1052547185513062400

War has changed

# ? Oct 17, 2018 16:24

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

Serf posted:

The Soviet Economy After the New Economic Policy

this was an interesting read. i'm not as familiar as i'd like to be with soviet history, and this seemed like a pretty broad overview of the nep's successes and failures

quote:

However, they were unquestionably over-optimistic about their prospects for this transformation. Lenin came to his own over-exuberant predictions about the simplicity with which the proletariat would rise to command their economic destiny in The State and Revolution.

lmao.

anyways, really good article. thanks for sharing. I mean, it's all CIA revisionist lies, but it's good.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 17:21

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

this is the important part of the article, and it tracks with everything I've read from communist economists (especially the polish ones, cause they were the smartest) who critiqued gosplan.

quote:

For advanced consumer societies however, the question is still more open, but there is reason to be hopeful. The kinds of planning which would be responsive to consumer needs, while also being capable of managing millions of commodities, were far beyond the capabilities developed in the USSR. Such sophistication would be necessary to keep Western levels of development. Yet, computers have advanced to levels unimaginable to the Soviets in the 1960s, and are literally 100s of billions of times more powerful. Such calculation problems are no longer insurmountable.

Some of the most important questions are not merely calculational. They involve more mundane social elements of production and distribution. The human side of cybernetics is in providing institutions and social rules which enable and encourage good behaviour and which lead to positive social outcomes. Some of the most important things we can learn from the planning system are not the positive examples but the negative ones. The USSR has a wealth of examples of where planning can go wrong. Planning in the USSR can still teach us much about what not to do.

The system of planning in the USSR was exceptionally taut, meaning that it was assumed that each stage of the production chain would meet its targets. When this failed to obtain, failure would cascade through the entire production chain, leading to shortages. Each firm was responsible for meeting its targets. Politically, this was often treated irrespective of the failures of those further up the chain.

This lead to a number of negative institutional responses. Firms would over-state needs and understate capacities systematically. They would similarly horde inputs in the event of later shortages. The planners would then assume that the firms were lying about capacities and negotiation would proceed, haggling, somewhat blindly, towards a target number, often based on the previous planning round. This meant that keeping outputs low was useful so as not to make the planners optimistic about future results.

Firms would also keep spare capacity to make the inputs that they could not obtain. Since material balances often did not take sufficient account of the suitability and quality of inputs, there was a widespread quality problem as well. Some of these problems were overcome by an illegal but tolerated grey-market of �fixers� (tolkachi), who would arrange complex barters to ensure the quotas could be met. The more extensive this network became, the more meaningless became the figures of the plan.

In addition the planning periods were rather long, due to the complexity of working out the various input-output strategies. Production delays in inputs within the period would lead to �storming� or intense work periods near the end of a planning period. Storming lead to both stressed workforces and difficulty in recognising and correcting deviations from expected results until the end of a period. Again, this could lead to cascading failure down the supply chain.

By 1970, mathematical economists in the USSR had become much more sophisticated. They had recognised that the plan had no objective function. This is essentially mathematical jargon for a goal. Without clearly defined goals it was impossible to seriously employ mathematical optimisation techniques. On top of this, the horizon problem had been clearly outlined: should investment be set at a low level and geared towards relatively decent consumption now, but with the proviso of low growth into the medium term, or should investment be set at a high level in order to reap the rewards in the future, even if it meant consumption in the immediate future was going to be restricted. There was no technical manner in which to decide between the two: it was a decision inherently political in nature. In addition, these goals provided a potentially excellent source of democratic input and a way to make the economy more responsive to public demand. This possibility was never exploited, but points to very exciting future avenues in the hope to place the economy in human hands.

In the final analysis, the USSR was an important and unique experiment with mixed results. While the deficiencies and tragedies are well known, we should also recognise the success which were often realised under extreme duress and with great difficulty. The defeat of the Nazis alone was of incredible importance to all of Europe and indeed the world; it is the reason that liberal democracies still exist there at all. The material equality and complete elimination of private accumulation is an amazing feat which we should study carefully. While it had clear shortcomings, it also was ability to feed, clothe, employ and house everyone, something not repeated by capitalist states.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 17:25

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

so much for the end of history lol

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1052575565671223297
could use that video with the rate of the tendency to profit to fall over time interspersed over marx's face and the inception soundtrack if anyone knows where it is

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:46

Serf: May 5, 2011

Karl Barks posted:

lmao.

anyways, really good article. thanks for sharing. I mean, it's all CIA revisionist lies, but it's good.

legit curious as to what parts are lies. i'm trying to learn more about soviet history

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:52

Frog Act: Feb 10, 2012

You know I've noticed that most liberals I know are disgusted by the sort of police stuff that is so much more in the discourse today (arbitrary murders, rapes, etc), but if you bring up the possibility of retaliatory violence or justice not dictated by the procedures of the capitalist penal system as a whole in a theoretical sense - not like "hey go get a gun and do a crime" but more like "the US needs a second round of Nuremberg trials". When the relative moral legitimacy of revolutionary violence comes up in conversation with libs, it always precipitates an immediate hemming and hawing or it is reflexively dismissed as a childish fantasy.

I was reading some Liebknecht the other day, dude who wrote some interesting books including Marxism and Philosophy which is a pretty fascinating revision of orthodox Marxist ideas in the context of revolutionary Germany and the Weimar Republic and his emphasis on the importance of working at a confluence of praxis and theory got me thinking about this stuff. There is, imo, a pretty coherent leftist theoretical structure for the wholesale reconstruction of police and other elements of the state that intervene directly in the lives of citizens that more or less emphasize positivist ideas re: architecture, disbursement of social services, licensing, etc etc and I think are all well and good. The thing is, though, like the majority of people with whom I interact that aren't edgy Stalinists don't have any consistent, reasonably applicable or productive ideas for whatever processes are required to render macrogovernmental institutions malleable enough for the kind of necessary reform. Most theorists I've read seem to agree that the precondition for that kind of thing is revolutionary violence, though the more contemporary (like post-1960s New Left type thinkers) are much less optimistic about that possibility, and I've read a lot about the very specific contingency of alienation these guys think is necessary to precipitate that revolutionary action.

I guess what I'm getting at here is I don't really have a consistent thing to slot into the "what do you do before reforming an enormous governmental entity" other than "guillotines". I think the notion that reform in the contemporary US requires a much more vigorous commitment to a program analogous to denazification after WWII, which largely failed because of permissiveness re: former Nazis being allowed to continue participating in government in order to counter Soviet influence. That being said, whenever most non-nutty Stalinist/normal generic leftist/liberals I know talk about stuff and the subject of the potential legitimacy of revolutionary violence is raised, most people are like, at best, super uncomfortable. I guess what I'm wondering am I totally theoretically wrong in my interpretation? I mean, there are great socialist thinkers like E.P. Thompson who are principally humanist and thus largely pacificist and I respect their scruples, but I don't think even Thompson has roundly disavowed the theoretical value of direct action

I should note a lot of this comes from my former thesis director who is an esteemed historian of Nazi Germany, the Holocaust, and left-wing philosophy in particular and we largely agree on these things, though he tends to think that collective violence as a premeditated defense against fascism is basically always correct

Frog Act fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 17, 2018

# ? Oct 17, 2018 20:59

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

so much for the end of history lol

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1052575565671223297
could use that video with the rate of the tendency to profit to fall over time interspersed over marx's face and the inception soundtrack if anyone knows where it is

i keep it in my favorites list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xyqDUl9jkA

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:00

GorgonLiker: Oct 7, 2018; Look me in the eyes, at least.

Serf posted:

legit curious as to what parts are lies. i'm trying to learn more about soviet history

if a source isn't 100% laudatory of the USSR someone will almost always tell you it's a cia lie. the hardest part is that it frequently will be

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:07

Crazycryodude: Aug 15, 2015; Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

so much for the end of history lol

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1052575565671223297
could use that video with the rate of the tendency to profit to fall over time interspersed over marx's face and the inception soundtrack if anyone knows where it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xyqDUl9jkA

E: poo poo beaten, watch it twice

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:10

smarxist: Jul 26, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

GorgonLiker posted:

if a source isn't 100% laudatory of the USSR someone will almost always tell you it's a cia lie. the hardest part is that it frequently will be

yeah i mean, it's not a 100% hard and fast rule but damned if it don't work out like 80% of the time.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:11

GorgonLiker: Oct 7, 2018; Look me in the eyes, at least.

ShriekingMarxist posted:

yeah i mean, it's not a 100% hard and fast rule but damned if it don't work out like 80% of the time.

it can be very very frustrating when you bring up that 20% in good faith and people sneer at you like you're a lapdog for the feds though

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:12

Prav: Oct 29, 2011

GorgonLiker posted:

it can be very very frustrating when you bring up that 20% in good faith and people sneer at you like you're a lapdog for the feds though

that's because then you're in a second 80/20 situation

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:15

THS: Sep 15, 2017

GorgonLiker posted:

it can be very very frustrating when you bring up that 20% in good faith and people sneer at you like you're a lapdog for the feds though

cop spotted

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:32

GorgonLiker: Oct 7, 2018; Look me in the eyes, at least.

THS posted:

cop spotted

# ? Oct 17, 2018 21:41

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/curaffairs/status/1052662488397795329

# ? Oct 17, 2018 22:41

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

he is such a loving dweeb

# ? Oct 17, 2018 22:49

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

GalacticAcid posted:

he is such a loving dweeb

Engaging chuds in a neutral venue is the right way to do it though.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 22:58

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

Serf posted:

legit curious as to what parts are lies. i'm trying to learn more about soviet history

I was kidding, the first pArt was earnest. Agree with basically everything in that

# ? Oct 17, 2018 23:12

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

Nathan Robinson is a lot like Stalin, not the hero we wanted, etc

# ? Oct 17, 2018 23:14

Slanderer: May 6, 2007

GalacticAcid posted:

he is such a loving dweeb

Nothus posted:

He's a bowtie dipshit but he's our bowtie dipshit.

# ? Oct 17, 2018 23:23

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Serf posted:

legit curious as to what parts are lies. i'm trying to learn more about soviet history

he's making a joke but i'm glad it honeypotted a dumbass or two

# ? Oct 17, 2018 23:35

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

The Virgin AOC and the Chad Lee Carter

https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1052692492813049857?s=19

# ? Oct 17, 2018 23:59

smarxist: Jul 26, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

Based Ron Weasley

# ? Oct 18, 2018 00:01

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Lmfao lee Carter ftw

# ? Oct 18, 2018 00:02

fabergay egg: Mar 1, 2012; it's not a rhetorical question, for politely saying 'you are an idiot, you don't know what you are talking about'

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

so much for the end of history lol

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1052575565671223297
could use that video with the rate of the tendency to profit to fall over time interspersed over marx's face and the inception soundtrack if anyone knows where it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff6SgU8yvv8

# ? Oct 18, 2018 00:11

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

The Virgin AOC and the Chad Lee Carter

https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1052692492813049857?s=19

Absolute

# ? Oct 18, 2018 01:18

Red Dad Redemption: Sep 29, 2007

Serf posted:

The Soviet Economy After the New Economic Policy

this was an interesting read. i'm not as familiar as i'd like to be with soviet history, and this seemed like a pretty broad overview of the nep's successes and failures

this may have been ghost written by stephen holmes, but it was an interesting read. thanks for posting it.

# ? Oct 18, 2018 02:04

Impermanent: Apr 1, 2010

It may be true that everything else in life requires some study or analysis or practice or jsu discussion with people familiar with the subject to get good at, but politics is different because I am pretty sure I'm already right.

# ? Oct 18, 2018 02:40

megalodong: Mar 11, 2008

Serf posted:

yeah, just vote 'em out. that's all it takes

Hey i wasn't agreeing with him, just pointing out CNN being even more dishonest than usual.

# ? Oct 18, 2018 03:26

HorrificExistence: Jun 25, 2017; by Athanatos

im getting a lot of just straight up anti-semetic videos as suggestions on Youtube ever since I subbed to some accounts like Shaun and three arrows. really lovely algorithm

# ? Oct 18, 2018 06:11

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

HorrificExistence posted:

im getting a lot of just straight up anti-semetic videos as suggestions on Youtube ever since I subbed to some accounts like Shaun and three arrows. really lovely algorithm

its started suggesting anti-communist songs after I was getting down on old labor songs trying to find one that was catchy but also didn't sound like the 80 year old folk song it was

# ? Oct 18, 2018 07:28

Graphic: Sep 4, 2018; It's like Lenin said

Larry Parrish posted:

its started suggesting anti-communist songs after I was getting down on old labor songs trying to find one that was catchy but also didn't sound like the 80 year old folk song it was

american left wing music is really bad tbh*. like even the internationale sounds really horrible in english.

* - punk excluded

# ? Oct 18, 2018 07:47

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

Graphic posted:

american left wing music is really bad tbh*. like even the internationale sounds really horrible in english.

* - punk excluded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxUSsFXYo4

# ? Oct 18, 2018 08:06

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Graphic posted:

american left wing music is really bad tbh*. like even the internationale sounds really horrible in english.

* - punk excluded

I like the Varshavianka translation although the grammar is pretty interesting to keep the rhyme

# ? Oct 18, 2018 08:16

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Graphic posted:

american left wing music is really bad tbh*. like even the internationale sounds really horrible in english.

* - punk excluded

i was gonna say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyN6cUkhbz4

# ? Oct 18, 2018 13:15

GorgonLiker: Oct 7, 2018; Look me in the eyes, at least.

Graphic posted:

american left wing music is really bad tbh*. like even the internationale sounds really horrible in english.

uhhhhhhh what the gently caress what the FUC

Graphic posted:

* - punk excluded

whew okay yeah. there are some rappers doing good work too but yes, agreedo

# ? Oct 18, 2018 13:22

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# ? May 10, 2024 02:31

Serf: May 5, 2011

Graphic posted:

american left wing music is really bad tbh*. like even the internationale sounds really horrible in english.

* - punk excluded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiDga-2aTmI

# ? Oct 18, 2018 13:27

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