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Doctor Strange found one, but a businessman stole it and dropped it.
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Oct 18, 2018 14:21
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Fruity20 posted:why don't super inventors such as reed richards find a cure for cancer? with all those fancy inventions, humanity would managed to reach the stars in a matter of years. If you take super science and other super powers to their logical conclusion, you get stories set in a world dramatically different from our world. That would kind of suck for long term storytelling in a massive interconnected universe. See Supergod by Warren Ellis for the distopian versions of this.
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Oct 18, 2018 14:24
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Inkspot posted:Doctor Strange found one, but a businessman stole it and dropped it. That's a metaphor for something.
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Oct 18, 2018 14:24
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Uthor posted:If you take super science and other super powers to their logical conclusion, you get stories set in a world dramatically different from our world. That would kind of suck for long term storytelling in a massive interconnected universe. I wouldn't say that they suck for long term storytelling, but they would not be the kinds of stories that comic book companies are interested in telling.
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Oct 18, 2018 14:30
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It has occasionally led to interesting stories, but in general, it feels like cheating when writers decide that the format of comics is too dumb and take characters to their logical conclusion. I am at least partially sick of the following; Magneto has unlimited power because magnets everywhere. Super genius does super-genius stuff that has to be rolled back rather than just using smarts to hit people. Vigilantism might be bad. Does super hero make things worse by existing? Wolverine is literally the Terminator. Sometimes I feel like comics were taken over by nit pickers. The examination of a hero's place is the worst. Is vigilantism bad? Does the Hero make things worse? The answer is yes, every time, but they then have to pretend that it isn't. Batman has this the worst, because his villains have regressed to their 30's era murderous default, while Batman still deals with them like the comics code is in place. Batman doesn't kill people makes a lot more sense and feels a lot more natural when his villains don't either. Last addendum: Note, none of this is really that bad if it has lasting impact, but it never does. Comics always revert to mean, it just means the rubber band stings more because it was stretched further. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 14:32
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Agent_grey posted:Mr Fantastic already did, the cure was to shrink tiny get on an equally tiny submarine and shoot lasers at it until it's gone, for further details please look in medical journals refering to the patient W.Lumpkin. THANKS OBAMA
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Oct 18, 2018 15:26
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Uthor posted:If you take super science and other super powers to their logical conclusion, you get stories set in a world dramatically different from our world. That would kind of suck for long term storytelling in a massive interconnected universe. Or the back half of Miracleman for the utopian version. remusclaw posted:It has occasionally led to interesting stories, but in general, it feels like cheating when writers decide that the format of comics is too dumb and take characters to their logical conclusion. Every goddamn X-men has had a version of this and it's always the worst thing. Every time someone brings up that time Emma Frost took over iceman's body and did all kinds of impossible poo poo because of how cold powers would "actually" work as if that was a good story I die a little. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 15:39
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Endless Mike posted:THANKS OBAMA Hey, the Richards building doesn’t get heated by good intentions, sometimes people have to die of preventable and curable ills so lil’ Franklin’s college fund can get filled
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Oct 18, 2018 15:40
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I'd like to add in every writer who thinks the logical extreme of Superman is red glowy eyed dictator.
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Oct 18, 2018 16:12
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If Superman starts ending world hunger, it's a slippery slope until he lasers Shazam's head off.
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Oct 18, 2018 16:15
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Random Stranger posted:I wouldn't say that they suck for long term storytelling, but they would not be the kinds of stories that comic book companies are interested in telling. I more meant it sucking for the company to tell a super futurist story in dozens of titles over the course of decades. Imagine if Marvel took the FF and Spider-Man to the logical conclusion of a super sci-fi futuristic society in the sixties and tried telling those stories up until now. At the very least, the technology they thought up sixty years ago would be laughably weird compared to how technology actually evolved (see the original Star Trek).
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Oct 18, 2018 16:31
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I thought New 52 Captain Atom did a decent job with the whole, "Why doesn't [superhero] cure cancer?" The character was depicted as Dr. Manhattan with a down-to-earth human personality, so instead of being a cosmic robot about everything, he did decide to just go and relieve someone of a brain tumor because he could probably do that. He succeeded, but it made him realize that he essentially had no limits. His form and temperament evolved over the next couple hundred years until he became a malevolent cloud of energy that wanted to bring the end to everything. One of his earlier forms decided to nix that by going back in time to the brain tumor incident and sabotaging it so modern-day Captain Atom would think himself a failure and never go down that path. Did they do anything interesting with Captain Atom after that series?
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Oct 18, 2018 16:47
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Gavok posted:I thought New 52 Captain Atom did a decent job with the whole, "Why doesn't [superhero] cure cancer?" The character was depicted as Dr. Manhattan with a down-to-earth human personality, so instead of being a cosmic robot about everything, he did decide to just go and relieve someone of a brain tumor because he could probably do that. Lurdiak posted:If Superman starts ending world hunger, it's a slippery slope until he lasers Shazam's head off. I feel like a genre where the default is people solving all problems with violence needs to shy away from trying to tackle real world issues if they have no interest in actually taking those issues anywhere in the narrative. If at the end of the day, they are going back to punch bad guy, problem fixed, they probably shouldn't stray too far from that because it makes the core storytelling look childish, because it is childish, and most people are cool with that. Don't shove it in their face constantly though. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 16:49
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Lurdiak posted:Every goddamn X-men has had a version of this and it's always the worst thing. Every time someone brings up that time Emma Frost took over iceman's body and did all kinds of impossible poo poo because of how cold powers would "actually" work as if that was a good story I die a little. A better take is the opposite scenario, in Claremont's run, where Emma takes over Storm's body and completely doesn't understand how much restraint and meteorological savvy Storm has to employ to use her powers safely, and ends up causing a gigantic stormfront due to carelessly controlling the wind. I always prefer it when the angle is, "actually, if you extrapolate it logically, there are dangers and limitations to this character's powers that they have to be mindful of," rather than, "actually, if you extrapolate it logically, this character would be as unto a living god!".
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Oct 18, 2018 16:49
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Android Blues posted:A better take is the opposite scenario, in Claremont's run, where Emma takes over Storm's body and completely doesn't understand how much restraint and meteorological savvy Storm has to employ to use her powers safely, and ends up causing a gigantic stormfront due to carelessly controlling the wind. Of course even Claremont isn't without sin. I think he's the first who gave us 'Magneto can control the iron in your blood.' Which is one of those on the surface really neat powers that at least sounds cool, but then you have to deal with 'why isn't he using it all the time?'
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Oct 18, 2018 17:32
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Most people don't have enough iron in their diet, obviously.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:52
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Magneto trying to get people to eat more spinach so he'll have an easier time conquering the world.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:02
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Brotherhood of Humanity getting anemia to own the libs MAGNETO AIN'T GONNA CONTROL MY BLOOD
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Oct 18, 2018 18:06
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Skwirl posted:Magneto trying to get people to eat more spinach so he'll have an easier time conquering the world. Spinach doesn't have particularly high iron content, though. (Popeye actually gets this right; his strength doesn't come from the iron in spinach, but from the Vitamin A.)
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Oct 18, 2018 18:14
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Never forget that Wakanda has a cure for cancer that they aren't disclosing to the rest of the world because they're dicksGavok posted:I thought New 52 Captain Atom did a decent job with the whole, "Why doesn't [superhero] cure cancer?" The character was depicted as Dr. Manhattan with a down-to-earth human personality, so instead of being a cosmic robot about everything, he did decide to just go and relieve someone of a brain tumor because he could probably do that. There was a (kinda) recent mini called the Death of Captain Atom that was kind of interesting (i thought at least). The N52 form you're talking about was starting to leak radiation and risk turning into the worst nuke ever but the Army had found some way to drain off some of his power and thus keep him safe. Unfortunately though he goes out to perform an act of heroism (IIRC he saves a cruise ship?) but he realizes that he has to get back to his base and get his radiation drained off but the loving Justice League gets in the way and he explodes. Somehow this sends him back to the late 90s/early 2000s with no powers. After talking with some professor in the field of There's some other stuff but that's what I can remember off the top of my head.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:23
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Sinners Sandwich posted:I remember they did a storyline where Supergirl tried to cure cancer, how did that turn out? My vague recollection is the kid died, but not before Kara screwed up a bunch of stuff trying to save him.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:38
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Dawgstar posted:Of course even Claremont isn't without sin. I think he's the first who gave us 'Magneto can control the iron in your blood.' Which is one of those on the surface really neat powers that at least sounds cool, but then you have to deal with 'why isn't he using it all the time?' I'm pretty sure Roy Thomas would've introduced that; there's an Avengers story where the X-Men (at that time continuity castaways whom nobody really liked and perennial guest stars without their own book) appear with Magneto as the villain, and he's gained the ability to control minds by cutting off the blood to a person's brain, though as I recall it turns them into nonresponsive zombies rather than letting him use them like marionettes (he has a sidekick who does that once he's made them go all listless). Of course, Silver Age / early Bronze Age Magneto could control people with "animal magnetism" or because he had a "magnetic personality" so "he controls the iron in their blood" is a welcome tone-down. It's when you get writers who have read a physics text book and want to explore the full range of "can control the entire electromagnetic spectrum" that you can get a bit carried away. It's great for making Magneto this almost unapproachable final boss level villain who only really top-level characters like Storm or Phoenix could realistically fight, but it sometimes makes him too powerful for anything else.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:45
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Wheat Loaf posted:It's when you get writers who have read a physics text book and want to explore the full range of "can control the entire electromagnetic spectrum" that you can get a bit carried away. It's great for making Magneto this almost unapproachable final boss level villain who only really top-level characters like Storm or Phoenix could realistically fight, but it sometimes makes him too powerful for anything else. Which does explain why Mags gets nerfed when he has to join the X-Men.
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Oct 18, 2018 20:16
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remusclaw posted:I feel like the general direction of the Ultimate Universe was, aside from Spider-Man, to take each character, identify their worst traits or most uncharitable reading, and make that their defining characterization. Everyone was a prick, all the time. It's been ages since I read Millar's run of Ultimate X-Men, and I generally really liked it, but every character he wrote in that comic was pretty much a gigantic arsehole.
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Oct 18, 2018 20:25
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Dawgstar posted:Which does explain why Mags gets nerfed when he has to join the X-Men. Claremont was the first writer who I think really started to expand Magneto beyond "controls metal" - I believe he gave Magneto the ability to fly under his own power for the first time - but even he had to resort to having Colossus run in and try to fist-fight him while in his metal form so everyone would have something to do during fights. 
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Oct 18, 2018 21:02
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I've sometimes humored the idea of "hero cures cancer" or whatever, but taking the logical conclusion further still--that society as it's structured probably wouldn't let it happen. Like, a hero with infinite power tries to provide America... infinite power. Oil companies get in the ear of congress. There's slanderous campaigns trying to convince the public to vote against the hero's proposal, as it's too dangerous. It's all bullshit, of course; the real villains wear suits. Invented a cure for cancer? Gotta get that past the FDA and hope no lobbyists are in the cancer treating business. Invented a flying car? Good looking getting those made legal for the public, let alone distributed. The super science hero, instead of battling dudes in costumes in volcano bases, ends up going head to head with bureaucrats and lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and the media. They could change the world as we know it... if the world would let them. Moral quandaries abound, as said hero could probably just go around curing cancer without the government's backing but then they become a criminal. You can't just give people drugs you made in your secret base. It'd make for a lovely story, but I think it could be neat as a background thing in a different hero's book. "Why doesn't Doctor Science just cure cancer? Hell, if Doctor Science can stop time with their science machines, why do we even still have crime?" Meanwhile, Doctor Science is at Science HQ, yelling into a phone for the thirtieth time today.
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Oct 18, 2018 21:17
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One thing I thought was quite novel in Mark Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme miniseries from the 1980s was that the heroes take control of America, they start trying to fix things one way or another (curing illnesses to varying degrees of success, brainwashing criminals to make them productive members of society) but then the thing that turns the public against them is when they announce that from now on, nobody will be permitted to die: the terminally ill will be required to enter stasis pods where they will be kept until such a time as they can be cured. The result is huge protests full of people holding "WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DIE" signs and the Squadron is genuinely baffled that anyone would be against this.
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Oct 18, 2018 21:26
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Sinners Sandwich posted:I remember they did a storyline where Supergirl tried to cure cancer, how did that turn out? IIRC she tried to use Resurrection Man (who I think hadn't appeared in the comics for a good few years at that point) somehow. It didn't work.
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Oct 18, 2018 21:44
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Lunatic Sledge posted:I've sometimes humored the idea of "hero cures cancer" or whatever, but taking the logical conclusion further still--that society as it's structured probably wouldn't let it happen. That's what Joe Casey's Wildcats run was all about, and it was great.
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Oct 18, 2018 22:07
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Wheat Loaf posted:One thing I thought was quite novel in Mark Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme miniseries from the 1980s was that the heroes take control of America, they start trying to fix things one way or another (curing illnesses to varying degrees of success, brainwashing criminals to make them productive members of society) but then the thing that turns the public against them is when they announce that from now on, nobody will be permitted to die: the terminally ill will be required to enter stasis pods where they will be kept until such a time as they can be cured. The result is huge protests full of people holding "WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DIE" signs and the Squadron is genuinely baffled that anyone would be against this. That series is really underrated, for my money. (Which was about $6, as I bought them as half-off dollar books at the store.) Gruenwald loved DC characters and that was as close as he got to write them.
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Oct 18, 2018 23:14
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Consider this also when asking about why Reed Richards doesn't cure everything... Yes you would do a ton of good. So many sick kids or deserving parents would be able to get long lives.... But it also means you'd end up curing guys like Trump. And Putin. Basically the grim reaper (not Wonder Man's brother) is the great equalizer. Without him then those super rich rear end in a top hat will become like Liches. Living forever and acruing wealth enough to enslave armies of people. And if you start saying no to curing them, you have ventured into the world of choosing who lives and who dies. It's a bit that happened in that Spider-man story where he got the Captain Universe powers. I never understood it at the time but thinking back it's really deep. Peter has a moral question about his new increase in powers and asks Aunt May a hypothetical question about what she'd do if she the power of life and death. And she baulks at it and says even hypothetically it's too big a question to ask. It's a sort of power no one person was ever ment to have.
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Oct 18, 2018 23:16
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The Question IRL posted:Consider this also when asking about why Reed Richards doesn't cure everything... The rich bastards always live to 100 anyway. They already get the best healthcare.
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Oct 18, 2018 23:27
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Reed lets doom run latveria because decorum, he doesn't give a poo poo Reed literally recreated the entire universe and left it just as lovely as it was before on purpose
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Oct 18, 2018 23:38
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They saw what happened in Bruce Almighty after he granted all the prayers and decided not to let that happen to their universe.
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Oct 18, 2018 23:50
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site posted:Reed lets doom run latveria because decorum, he doesn't give a poo poo That and the times they've tried to change Latveria, the people freak out.
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Oct 19, 2018 01:11
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That time fury invaded after Reed took over didn't end well either i guess
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Oct 19, 2018 01:16
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I remember there was a panel ages ago where someone confronts a mad scientist and says something like " you could cure cancer or world hunger but instead you use your powers to create killer dinosaurs with lasers" and the mad scientist replies that he doesn't want to cure cancer or solve world hunger, he wants to create killer dinosaurs with lasers*. I'm pretty sure this way of thinking is the same for heroes. *Not the exact dialog but the gist is the same.
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Oct 19, 2018 05:26
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Madkal posted:I remember there was a panel ages ago where someone confronts a mad scientist and says something like " you could cure cancer or world hunger but instead you use your powers to create killer dinosaurs with lasers" and the mad scientist replies that he doesn't want to cure cancer or solve world hunger, he wants to create killer dinosaurs with lasers*. I'm pretty sure this way of thinking is the same for heroes. remusclaw posted:They don't want to cure cancer, they want to turn people into dinosaurs.
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Oct 19, 2018 05:28
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But I don’t want to cure cancer, I want to make dinosaurs! It’s from Spider-Man and the X-Men. The ‘scientist’ is Sauron.
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Oct 19, 2018 05:28
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http://imgur.com/a/IIZoeXq
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Oct 19, 2018 05:32
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