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The Elizabeth Warren thing is both a hilariously dumb move on her part, and also not likely to be a problem for her eventual campaign. More to the point, I just don't see why she would be anyone's choice when you already have Diet Socialist Bernie further to the left on her on basically everything, he checks all the boxes she does, just better. I'm not sure what her niche would be. Harris is more likely, although I would dislike her a great deal more, what with her life sentences for nonviolent third-strikes bullshit, and her absolutely indefensible truancy laws.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:01
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InnercityGriot posted:The Elizabeth Warren thing is both a hilariously dumb move on her part, and also not likely to be a problem for her eventual campaign. More to the point, I just don't see why she would be anyone's choice when you already have Diet Socialist Bernie further to the left on her on basically everything, he checks all the boxes she does, just better. I'm not sure what her niche would be. Harris is more likely, although I would dislike her a great deal more, what with her life sentences for nonviolent third-strikes bullshit, and her absolutely indefensible truancy laws. Warren's niche is Hillary voters who are slowly coming to terms with the fact that every single Democrat under 45 preferred Bernie
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Oct 19, 2018 19:03
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I don't get the "Bernie's too old" concern if you supported him in 2016. Would you not have supported him running for reelection had he won?
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Oct 19, 2018 19:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Warren's niche is Hillary voters who are slowly coming to terms with the fact that every single Democrat under 45 preferred Bernie I see them as more likely to go Biden or Harris.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:06
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VitalSigns posted:I don't get the "Bernie's too old" concern if you supported him in 2016. Would you not have supported him running for reelection had he won? He's too old in the abstract compared against Generic Candidate, but compared against all the actual 2016 and 2020 candidates, he's . . . pretty much the same age like, in the abstract, both Hillary and Trump are also too goddam old, so is Warren probably, etc. But apparently we live in a gerontocracy
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Oct 19, 2018 19:07
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InnercityGriot posted:I see them as more likely to go Biden or Harris. Hence the "slowly". That said, a lot of Hillary voters were Hillary voters because they really wanted a [white][upper class][ivy league background] woman to be president. Warren checks the same demographic boxes Hillary did.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:09
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It is moderately alarming that there’s barely anyone in the 40-50 year old range that’s even attempted to step up to the level of Bernie or AOC since 2016. The best we’ve got is Ellison.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:11
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InnercityGriot posted:The Elizabeth Warren thing is both a hilariously dumb move on her part, and also not likely to be a problem for her eventual campaign. More to the point, I just don't see why she would be anyone's choice when you already have Diet Socialist Bernie further to the left on her on basically everything, he checks all the boxes she does, just better. I'm not sure what her niche would be. Harris is more likely, although I would dislike her a great deal more, what with her life sentences for nonviolent third-strikes bullshit, and her absolutely indefensible truancy laws. warren's the fallback. she's not as good as sanders but she's far ahead of any other candidate. she did put herself well behind bernie with her unforced error this week though.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:12
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Lightning Knight posted:It is moderately alarming that there’s barely anyone in the 40-50 year old range that’s even attempted to step up to the level of Bernie or AOC since 2016. The best we’ve got is Ellison. Beto, if he wins, *sorta*. He's doing a good job of positioning himself almost exactly halfway between the establishment and progressive wings of the progressive movement.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Hence the "slowly". That said, a lot of Hillary voters were Hillary voters because they really wanted a [white][upper class][ivy league background] woman to be president. Warren checks the same demographic boxes Hillary did. Yeah, I think there was a group of Hillary voters who voted for her based on this. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of them voted for her due to name recognition, a cleared field for her candidacy, and a perception of inevitability more than the other thing, though. I think Biden clears those last three, in my estimation, more important checks. His Anita Hill stuff and general pervishness hurts him, but we'll see if that matters, white women have already demonstrated with Trump that they can excuse some pretty gross poo poo.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Beto, if he wins, *sorta*. He's doing a good job of positioning himself almost exactly halfway between the establishment and progressive wings of the progressive movement. That’s not really what I meant, tho I like Beto in that he seems to genuinely be exactly what he presents himself as. I mean we don’t have anybody in the 40-50 year old range presenting as openly socialist or trying to push the Overton window in that direction in a serious way.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:16
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Lightning Knight posted:It is moderately alarming that there’s barely anyone in the 40-50 year old range that’s even attempted to step up to the level of Bernie or AOC since 2016. The best we’ve got is Ellison. side effect of the democratic party putting all its chips in on Clinton back in the 90s, unfortunately
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Oct 19, 2018 19:19
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Lightning Knight posted:Which is crazy tbh, she looks like she’s about 55 to me. jovanka beckles would be able to run after she probably loses to the obama staffer the party threw their weight behind in her assembly district
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Oct 19, 2018 19:19
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InnercityGriot posted:The Elizabeth Warren thing is both a hilariously dumb move on her part, and also not likely to be a problem for her eventual campaign. This specific thing might not be an issue, but it shows a startling lack of political sense. She tried to own Trump with logic and all she accomplished was pissing off Native Americans who already weren't happy with her.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:22
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Lightning Knight posted:It is moderately alarming that there’s barely anyone in the 40-50 year old range that’s even attempted to step up to the level of Bernie or AOC since 2016. The best we’ve got is Ellison. I still theoretically like Ellison, but these allegations even if they seem false have still put a damper on things. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:side effect of the democratic party putting all its chips in on Clinton back in the 90s, unfortunately This has been an issue a lot longer than that, it goes back to '68 and then the losses in '72 and '76 really solidified things. If Nixon had lost reelection to McGovern the entire shape of the party would be vastly different. Jerry Brown being the nominee in 1992 wouldn't have really changed the course of the Democratic Party too much.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:24
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Guy Goodbody posted:This specific thing might not be an issue, but it shows a startling lack of political sense. She tried to own Trump with logic and all she accomplished was pissing off Native Americans who already weren't happy with her. I don't think lacking political sense is a barrier to winning the Democratic Primary, unfortunately.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:25
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Groovelord Neato posted:warren's the fallback. she's not as good as sanders but she's far ahead of any other candidate. she did put herself well behind bernie with her unforced error this week though. Yeah the reaction on a lot of the left is to start to shy away from her because even if she backs good legislation she doesn't seem to have the political chops to take on Trump
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Oct 19, 2018 19:26
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Feldegast42 posted:Yeah the reaction on a lot of the left is to start to shy away from her because even if she backs good legislation she doesn't seem to have the political chops to take on Trump Are we saying Trump is good at politics or bad? Like, people seem to love saying that Hillary was so incompetent she couldn't beat a moron like Trump, but it seems like a similar group is worried that if you're not the sharpest politician you can't take him on.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:41
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Jaxyon posted:Are we saying Trump is good at politics or bad? Trump has a massive advantage in a media that loves to hate him, Republican voter suppression, massive corporate money, the bully pulpit, etc. Trump doesn't have to be politically savvy to require a savvy politician to beat him.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:43
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Trabisnikof posted:I still theoretically like Ellison, but these allegations even if they seem false have still put a damper on things. I think "it would be dead and buried today" is a pretty significant course change.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:53
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Lightning Knight posted:It is moderately alarming that there’s barely anyone in the 40-50 year old range that’s even attempted to step up to the level of Bernie or AOC since 2016. The best we’ve got is Ellison. gen x really does suck major rear end Lightning Knight posted:I mean we don’t have anybody in the 40-50 year old range presenting as openly socialist or trying to push the Overton window in that direction in a serious way. kshama sawant, but yeah it's slim pickings
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Oct 19, 2018 20:10
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Jaxyon posted:Are we saying Trump is good at politics or bad? Trump might be a Fox News elemental but he very instinctively knows how to dunk on people that make dumb mistakes like Warren did. So yeah, an important skill in any candidate is knowing how to deal with that.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:24
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Jaxyon posted:Are we saying Trump is good at politics or bad? She is incompetent, and it's not because she lost to Trump it's because of (a) her entire career, and (b) the rankly incompetent way she went about losing to Trump. And there's no contradiction between believing that and wanting the sharpest possible politician with the minimum baggage to take him on in 2020 because the consequences of losing again are so horrific
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Oct 19, 2018 20:26
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The Muppets On PCP posted:gen x really does suck major rear end That but also Boomers are the largest voting bloc (and until recently the largest voting eligible bloc as well) and their brains have been mushed by leaded gasoline, Reaganism, and now age. Gen X does kinda suck but they never had a chance at politics anyways, the gerontocracy pulled the ladder up behind them and murdered any chance at building a Democratic Party bench for 40 years
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Oct 19, 2018 20:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Beto, if he wins, *sorta*. He's doing a good job of positioning himself almost exactly halfway between the establishment and progressive wings of the progressive movement. Beto scares me, because I see him (and other potential similar politicians) as basically a "triangulated" position that attempts to siphon off enthusiasm from the left towards candidates who wouldn't actually do much to shake up the status quo.
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Oct 19, 2018 21:33
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Ytlaya posted:Beto scares me, because I see him (and other potential similar politicians) as basically a "triangulated" position that attempts to siphon off enthusiasm from the left towards candidates who wouldn't actually do much to shake up the status quo. I think Beto's positions are genuine, he's just . . . a basically well meaning but inherently privileged young white dude, who's about as far left as a privileged white dude is ever going to go unless something (life experience, etc) pushed him further. He's nowhere near as far left as the country needs to go but I suspect he may be exactly as far left as the country can go without revolutionary violence.
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Oct 19, 2018 21:40
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Lightning Knight posted:AOC being a bad League player is the most relatable thing to me and I’m extremely excited to vote for her for president in a few cycles. You realise her tweet was the equivalent of a "I love my guns" as from a republican right. Politicians, even unelected ones, should not be trusted. They should be used. Even when they have the right messages. Get the hearts out of your eyes.
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Oct 19, 2018 21:42
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CelestialScribe posted:You realise her tweet was the equivalent of a "I love my guns" as from a republican right. Considering how connected Republican support of guns is to white supremacy, I really don't think AOC's League of Legends tweet is the equivalent of that.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:05
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The Muppets On PCP posted:gen x really does suck major rear end I’m glad I looked up this lady, she seems cool.  Edit: ^ yeah gently caress off CS those two things aren’t equivalent at all.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Beto, if he wins, *sorta*. He's doing a good job of positioning himself almost exactly halfway between the establishment and progressive wings of the progressive movement. K-Gills is 51 but she's arguably left of Beto.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:32
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Who do you guys consider the face of the dem party
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Oct 19, 2018 22:34
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LeoMarr posted:Who do you guys consider the face of the dem party this is an overly simplistic question and therefore I'm going with "nobody"
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Oct 19, 2018 22:37
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https://twitter.com/zackstanton/status/1053392639943495685?s=21 finally, we can move on from warren and discuss the merits of a literal assad apologist
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Oct 19, 2018 22:38
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LeoMarr posted:Who do you guys consider the face of the dem party 
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Oct 19, 2018 22:39
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.... my god
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Oct 19, 2018 22:40
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QuoProQuid posted:https://twitter.com/zackstanton/status/1053392639943495685?s=21 no i know i've been joking for a while about how my monkey's paw wish for a prominent progressive Hindu politician would lead to Tulsi Gabbard being President from January 25, 2023 to Inauguration Day, 2033 but no
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Oct 19, 2018 22:47
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Guy Goodbody posted:Considering how connected Republican support of guns is to white supremacy, I really don't think AOC's League of Legends tweet is the equivalent of that. You know what I mean. Clearly the substance isn't the same. The tactic is the same. It's a call to make her seem appealing and "just like one of us!" Doesn't mean it isn't true. Just that it's calculated and we shouldn't be played so easily. Remember, she's running for office - therefore, it should be difficult to trust her. She's a public servant, not a friend.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:48
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Gabbard's foreign policy is hosed up, but she was solid on domestic issues like fight for 15 and medicare for all before Hillary lost, so she'd still be leagues better than anyone other than Bernie or maybe Warren
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Oct 19, 2018 22:49
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GreyjoyBastard posted:no So, I don't really like Gabbard much either in light of the fact that one or two obvious better alternatives exist (namely Bernie, and probably also Warren), but I'd hope that you apply this same level of hard rejection to most other 2020 presidential hopefuls, because most are at least as bad as she is (at worst, her foreign policy would just be the same as most other Democrats'). Like, from an observer outside of the "liberal discourse ecosystem" (for lack of a better term), it is very obvious that Gabbard has entered the ranks of less-mainstream figures who receive dramatically disproportionate censure relative to their objectively more harmful mainstream counterparts.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:55
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Guy Goodbody posted:Gabbard's foreign policy is hosed up, but she was solid on domestic issues like fight for 15 and medicare for all before Hillary lost, so she'd still be leagues better than anyone other than Bernie or maybe Warren "She's a bloodthirsty ghoul who wants Muslim babies ground up for canned chili, but" Ytlaya posted:So, I don't really like Gabbard much either in light of the fact that one or two obvious better alternatives exist (namely Bernie, and probably also Warren), but I'd hope that you apply this same level of hard rejection to most other 2020 presidential hopefuls, because most are at least as bad as she is (at worst, her foreign policy would just be the same as most other Democrats'). For me, specifically, I am Examine your own goddamn biases before going "well I guess if Bernie doesn't win I'll have to uncritically support Gabbard because at least the profits from purging the subhumans will be distributed more equitably". Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Oct 19, 2018 |
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Oct 19, 2018 22:55
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