Oxygen Not Included - The result was disgusting

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Oxygen Not Included - The result was disgusting

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

Unless things have changed a lot asteroids do minimal surface damage and don't even become active until you purposely go up on the surface.

# ? Oct 20, 2018 15:04

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# ? May 29, 2024 18:49

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 5 hours!

They also reduced asteroid damage and there is a solution to regoliths now.

# ? Oct 20, 2018 15:09

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

And in my experience, even if you revealed/activated the surface early you'd actually end up with a net gain of material as you'd actually expect. The rock would get pulverized but space-sand would just pile up. Unless of course the asteroid hit the world borders: then it would just tunnel through neutronium as if it hit styrofoam until they fixed it.

# ? Oct 20, 2018 22:07

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Sure, but it's also hot material. That's not something you want to introduce into your colony unless you had ways of mitigating it.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 00:21

LonsomeSon: Nov 22, 2009; A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

I've never gone out onto the surface but I pretty much figured the highest priority after establishing a safe EVA lock would be to build a heat sink system or two, lessening dependence on wheezeworts/magical space coolers.

e: which could easily be used to chill out the surface material. I also figured that this would be harder and more finicky than it seems, considering the asteroid's surface temp.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 00:59

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 5 hours!

Man, I have to say, no longer being able to use abyssalite and instead having to produce ceramic for insulation results in a significant slowdown in progression. Previously you didn't need to go into the slime biome until later. Now you have to do so as soon as possible in order to get clay.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 04:23

Pigbuster: Sep 12, 2010; Fun Shoe

enraged_camel posted:

Man, I have to say, no longer being able to use abyssalite and instead having to produce ceramic for insulation results in a significant slowdown in progression. Previously you didn't need to go into the slime biome until later. Now you have to do so as soon as possible in order to get clay.

And considering new players are extremely reluctant to go into the slime biomes because germs look way scarier than they actually are, I feel like heat death is going to ruin bases even more than before since now there's yet another newbie trap. I really hope the general progression is one of the things they'll take a look at next because its been really weird for ages.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 04:32

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

Aren't stone insulted pipes, or at least some other material, still pretty good at insulating?

# ? Oct 21, 2018 06:27

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 5 hours!

bird food bathtub posted:

Aren't stone insulted pipes, or at least some other material, still pretty good at insulating?

igneous rock thermal conductivity is 0.063

ceramic is 0.019

# ? Oct 21, 2018 06:39

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

I would hope that rebalancing heat generation/insulation/movement/removal is one of their first priorities now that they're moving to 8 week non-themed patches.

I have a bunch of hope that they're starting to care about balance now that Abyssalite-level insulation is now an endgame thing so that there's finally a point to ceramic. I didn't even build a kiln at all in my most successful run that went to nearly cycle 500 (and could have gone on longer before I got a bit burned out and decided to wait for a bunch of updates before playing again.) I kind of like how they formalized liquid airlocks with high-end late game materials, too.

Speaking of buildings being useless, maybe one day there will be a point to the ore washer?

# ? Oct 21, 2018 06:47

Sillybones: Aug 10, 2013; go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

Besides heatdeath, what late-game issues should I be looking out for? I've got food, water, oxygen and heat (I think) all managed.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 11:38

insta: Jan 28, 2009

Put an ore scrubber between your sieved clean water reservoir's pitcher pump, and your kitchen. No more germs.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 18:41

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

insta posted:

Put an ore scrubber between your sieved clean water reservoir's pitcher pump, and your kitchen. No more germs.

Huh, I didn't know that. Though hopefully they'll both make the ore scrubber useful for its listed purpose and put in a more automatic way of chlorinating water.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 22:25

dogstile: May 1, 2012; fucking clocks
how do they work?

This game looks like it needs another pass for most of the systems to be honest.

poo poo tons of it is super arcane, the game doesn't really give you any pointers to heat, the surface/germs/temp are all things you 100% will need to know about in the end but you're expected to either figure it out or look it up.

Which is a shame because the game is fun its just layered under like 50 layers of obtuse poo poo that forces you to die and start again until you master it.

That said i've still got like 100 hours or whatever.

dogstile fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Oct 22, 2018

# ? Oct 22, 2018 17:04

Pylons: Mar 16, 2009

dogstile posted:

This game looks like it needs another pass for most of the systems to be honest.

poo poo tons of it is super arcane, the game doesn't really give you any pointers to heat, the surface/germs/temp are all things you 100% will need to know about in the end but you're expected to either figure it out or look it up.

Which is a shame because the game is fun its just layered under like 50 layers of obtuse poo poo that forces you to die and start again until you master it.

That said i've still got like 100 hours or whatever.

I think that's what the next few updates are doing.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 17:05

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

Eh ive been treating it about like dwarf fortress.

Losing is fun!

# ? Oct 22, 2018 17:24

dogstile: May 1, 2012; fucking clocks
how do they work?

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Eh ive been treating it about like dwarf fortress.

Losing is fun!

Losing is fun but i've got less and less time as i pick up more actual responsibilities that i'll definitely in no way ignore in favour of playing more videogames.

:unsmith:

# ? Oct 22, 2018 17:56

Literally Kermit: Mar 4, 2012; t

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Eh ive been treating it about like dwarf fortress.

Losing is fun!

I really hope they add hostile mobs to ONI at some point because whoa mama magma gonna flow :getin:

# ? Oct 22, 2018 20:03

GoldenJoe: Aug 9, 2006

Literally Kermit posted:

I really hope they add hostile mobs to ONI at some point because whoa mama magma gonna flow

I hope not. I've enjoyed this game a lot more than Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld because it feels like the devs traded combat, an unknowable, off-screen threat with the only solution being "Over prepare for combat", with more on-screen colony management problems like air, water, germs and heat.

Plus, I already find it a pain to swap out jobs and priorities; adding soldiers and whatever micromanagement they would bring to the mix would be too much.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 10:21

Phssthpok: Nov 7, 2004; fingers like strings of walnuts

If attackers come from the perimeter and there is some maximum heat above which they cannot survive, then I am already over-prepared for combat.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 12:22

Literally Kermit: Mar 4, 2012; t

Fine, let�s meet half-way and subject intruders to decompression mechanics :getin:

# ? Oct 23, 2018 14:10

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

This looks like an exploit to me and I wonder if it'll be fixed?

# ? Oct 23, 2018 14:36

Literally Kermit: Mar 4, 2012; t

Mayveena posted:

This looks like an exploit to me and I wonder if it'll be fixed?

Took me a minute to see what you were talking about it but yes, that does seem exploit-y.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:33

insta: Jan 28, 2009

That's figuratively the build name of the game though. It's a single-player game, they need to not faff around trying to nerf a bunch of little exploits and instead give me draggable "disable disinfect" commands.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:59

Pyromancer: Apr 29, 2011; This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

Mayveena posted:

This looks like an exploit to me and I wonder if it'll be fixed?

Vacuum as perfect heat insulator? Probably not.
Lack of diagonal heat transfer but allowing mining/building diagonally, may be fixed eventually, but there are other ways to achieve vacuum layer.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 19:48

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Vacuum should always be a perfect insulator but it should take a little more work to make a vacuum than "build a block and then remove it"

It doesn't take too long to pump down a little tunnel to a vacuum but it does take more planning and energy.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 20:07

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

Single player shouldn't imply don't bother with balancing, otherwise why not just give everyone a sandbox and forget the dupes? I don't know, we'll see how it works out, it's just that learning and then relying on these things is frustrating when they take them out.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 22:03

Hello Sailor: May 3, 2006; we're all mad here

It's an early access game for a reason.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 22:27

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

OK folks I've decided I'm going to try to get to the rocketry part of the game. I just opened a small hole which is the surface I guess, now what? Hopefully someone can just give me baby's first steps

# ? Oct 23, 2018 23:50

Qubee: May 31, 2013

I've restarted bases maybe 4 times in the past 8 hours. I keep losing all my poo poo due to ridiculous stuff:

- my dupes start pissing themselves even though I've got two bathrooms
- even though I plant 11 mealworm things and 7 of the slower growing plants, I still can't produce enough food
- oxygen management is a nightmare, specifically managing co2, I can spam algae farms (I usually go for 8-10) but eventually the algae runs out
- I've not had more than 10 dupes at a time, each with their own personal rooms, but god drat is it hard to increase moral to utilize jobs properly

I feel like there's too much that needs to be done, not enough dupes, and no downtime for research. if I focus the research tree, I end up dying due to food, if I focus on food / hygiene / comfort, I end up being stuck way behind in the research tree by the time co2 starts to kill me

baby's first playthrough guide go

# ? Oct 24, 2018 12:33

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

Well for oxygen don't rely on that many algea farms. That many of them is probably consuming an entire dupe worth of labor right off the bat, they're extremely inefficient. One algea oxylizer or whatever is what you want. I think that's good for like 8 dupes running full blast, which it won't be at the start because hamster wheels don't supply power overnight.

That's OK though because it leads in to point two, don't race to as many dupes as you can get as fast as you can. Add each one slowly and deliberately, to fill a specific purpose, and only after you've built the infrastructure. The portal will sit there with a new dupe available almost constantly, and that's fine.

# ? Oct 24, 2018 13:05

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

Qubee posted:

I've restarted bases maybe 4 times in the past 8 hours. I keep losing all my poo poo due to ridiculous stuff:

- my dupes start pissing themselves even though I've got two bathrooms
- even though I plant 11 mealworm things and 7 of the slower growing plants, I still can't produce enough food
- oxygen management is a nightmare, specifically managing co2, I can spam algae farms (I usually go for 8-10) but eventually the algae runs out
- I've not had more than 10 dupes at a time, each with their own personal rooms, but god drat is it hard to increase moral to utilize jobs properly

I feel like there's too much that needs to be done, not enough dupes, and no downtime for research. if I focus the research tree, I end up dying due to food, if I focus on food / hygiene / comfort, I end up being stuck way behind in the research tree by the time co2 starts to kill me

baby's first playthrough guide go

My Easy Peasy guide to getting started:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_W09ftcvI-Pt8nXtkYWc9JcnpmiLbyijqO8Tx05eOe8/edit?usp=sharing

# ? Oct 24, 2018 13:08

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Qubee posted:

I've restarted bases maybe 4 times in the past 8 hours. I keep losing all my poo poo due to ridiculous stuff:

- my dupes start pissing themselves even though I've got two bathrooms
- even though I plant 11 mealworm things and 7 of the slower growing plants, I still can't produce enough food
- oxygen management is a nightmare, specifically managing co2, I can spam algae farms (I usually go for 8-10) but eventually the algae runs out
- I've not had more than 10 dupes at a time, each with their own personal rooms, but god drat is it hard to increase moral to utilize jobs properly

I feel like there's too much that needs to be done, not enough dupes, and no downtime for research. if I focus the research tree, I end up dying due to food, if I focus on food / hygiene / comfort, I end up being stuck way behind in the research tree by the time co2 starts to kill me

baby's first playthrough guide go

Don't get more dupes right away. I rarely get more than 4 before I have some automated systems up. Just because the pod is active does not mean you have to print another dupe. This will keep things sane.
1 mealwood plant produces 600 Calories every 3 days, so 200/day. 1 dupe consumes 1,000 Cal/day. So you need 5 Mealwoods/dupe. 1 Bristle Blossom produces 1,600 Cal every 6 days, so 267 calories/day. HOWEVER! If you put a Bristle Berry in a farm room (enclosed, has a farming station) a level 2 farmer can use fertilizer on it which doubles the growth rate (so it grows in 3 days, same speed as mealwood). Mealwood cannot be fertilized but there's no harm in growing them until you have enough Bristle Berry seeds to replace them. Cooking will also improve the caloric content of any food.
Warning: upgrading a dupe to an advanced job (like the level 2 farmer I just mentioned) increases what all you need to make them happy. Be careful about upgrading your dupes jobs too fast if you don't want them puking/pissing everywhere or throwing tantrums because there's no mess hall and the floor is still dirt in half of the base.
Algae farms are a trap. 1 or 2 is useful early on in your CO₂ pit to manage the carbon dioxide, but a dupe has come by and maintain it every now and then: a massive time sink in the early days of your colony. What you want is the Carbon Skimmer machine which, when powered, sucks up any CO₂ in the air and sublime it in water (turning clean water into polluted water).

Alkydere fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Oct 24, 2018

# ? Oct 24, 2018 13:19

Hello Sailor: May 3, 2006; we're all mad here

Qubee posted:

baby's first playthrough guide go

Try limiting yourself to no more than 4-6 dupes until you work out food management.

One dupe burns 1000 calories per day. One liceloaf provides 1700 calories and requires 1200 calories of meal lice (two harvested plants) + 50 kg of water. Planted mealwood takes 3 days to regrow after you harvest it, which we'll bump up to 3.5 days to account for non-instant harvesting times and possible delays in tending the crops. So, keeping one dupe fed via liceloaf takes 3.5 x 2 x 1000 x (1/1700) = 4.1 planted mealwood. So, you need 41 mealwood planted to support a population of 10 dupes.

Other crops are more space efficient, but not so much so that you can replace 30 mealwood with 7 bristle blossoms or dusk caps. You need a lot more crops than you have just to support 5 dupes, let alone 10.

Where other crops really shine is in using the grill (30 seconds per food item with 0 cooking skill) instead of the musher (50 seconds per food item at 0 cooking skill), which lets your cook support a larger population. A cycle is only 600 seconds and the default schedule eats 125 seconds of that (assuming you have no showers), so the cook of your ten-dupe base has 475 seconds to come up with 10,000 calories of food.

# ? Oct 24, 2018 13:33

Pyromancer: Apr 29, 2011; This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

Qubee posted:

I've restarted bases maybe 4 times in the past 8 hours. I keep losing all my poo poo due to ridiculous stuff:

- my dupes start pissing themselves even though I've got two bathrooms
- even though I plant 11 mealworm things and 7 of the slower growing plants, I still can't produce enough food
- oxygen management is a nightmare, specifically managing co2, I can spam algae farms (I usually go for 8-10) but eventually the algae runs out
- I've not had more than 10 dupes at a time, each with their own personal rooms, but god drat is it hard to increase moral to utilize jobs properly

I feel like there's too much that needs to be done, not enough dupes, and no downtime for research. if I focus the research tree, I end up dying due to food, if I focus on food / hygiene / comfort, I end up being stuck way behind in the research tree by the time co2 starts to kill me

baby's first playthrough guide go

Don't take in more than 4 dupes early on, maybe even stick with 3 until you secure food supply. Plant a lot of mealwood, you need like 5 per duplicant, you'll probably need to use some microbe mushing until you have enough seed and harvests really come in.
Don't use algae farms, they're kinda bad, use algae deoxidizers at first and then electrolyzers once you find a geyser to have infinite water source.
For early CO2 just dig a room in the bottom of the base and let it gather there naturally, store food in it so it doesn't spoil without refrigeration. Don't bother with trying to remove it until you can scrub it, or even keep digging so it drops further down.

# ? Oct 24, 2018 14:01

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 5 hours!

Qubee posted:

I've restarted bases maybe 4 times in the past 8 hours. I keep losing all my poo poo due to ridiculous stuff:

- my dupes start pissing themselves even though I've got two bathrooms
- even though I plant 11 mealworm things and 7 of the slower growing plants, I still can't produce enough food
- oxygen management is a nightmare, specifically managing co2, I can spam algae farms (I usually go for 8-10) but eventually the algae runs out
- I've not had more than 10 dupes at a time, each with their own personal rooms, but god drat is it hard to increase moral to utilize jobs properly

I feel like there's too much that needs to be done, not enough dupes, and no downtime for research. if I focus the research tree, I end up dying due to food, if I focus on food / hygiene / comfort, I end up being stuck way behind in the research tree by the time co2 starts to kill me

baby's first playthrough guide go

first playthrough?

aren't you the OP?

# ? Oct 24, 2018 14:20

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

It's OK to be the OP and not know a lot about the game

(although kind of funny as well).

# ? Oct 24, 2018 14:28

JayKay: Sep 11, 2001; And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

The big gamechangers for me that resulted in me going from short lived bases to more long lived bases was:

Limit the amount of dupes. As others have said, just because you can print them doesn't mean you need them. I usually run with 3-4 til I get my food established and only then expand as my labor demands increase.
Don't over-research. Same as above, just because you can research doesn't mean you have to. I tend to only research as I need things.
Find an ice biome ASAP. This is a personal preference, but I like getting the ice biomes quickly so I have a place to put my coal generators, batteries, and a place to get water.

For what it's worth, my bases tend to level off towards the end of the tech tree (basically I get bored once I hit plastics/metal refinement, etc), but I have yet to break into rocketry. I'm still learning the game, the intricacies of the systems, and how to be more efficient.

# ? Oct 24, 2018 15:12

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 5 hours!

It's a good idea to check the printing pod whenever dupes become available. That way you can discard the batch if they all have lovely stats/traits, or hold on to it if there is a dupe you want (and print it when you're ready).

This can be important early on if there is that one dupe with stats/traits you know you're going to need soon.

JayKay posted:

The big gamechangers for me that resulted in me going from short lived bases to more long lived bases was:

Limit the amount of dupes. As others have said, just because you can print them doesn't mean you need them. I usually run with 3-4 til I get my food established and only then expand as my labor demands increase.

Don't over-research. Same as above, just because you can research doesn't mean you have to. I tend to only research as I need things.

Find an ice biome ASAP. This is a personal preference, but I like getting the ice biomes quickly so I have a place to put my coal generators, batteries, and a place to get water.

For what it's worth, my bases tend to level off towards the end of the tech tree (basically I get bored once I hit plastics/metal refinement, etc), but I have yet to break into rocketry. I'm still learning the game, the intricacies of the systems, and how to be more efficient.

You don't actually need to build your generators/batteries in an ice biome. You can build them in the next biome over, regardless of what it is. Here's my current setup:

Basically, I'm using the natural abyssalite as an insulator, and using ceramic insulation to make up the difference. It works really well:

Depending on your map, you may even be able to eliminate the need for ceramic completely, e.g. dig a 2-block hole through abyssalite, build a door and then set up your power room on the other side.

P.S. Avoiding over-research is important, but you should research automation ASAP because it makes your power generation insanely more efficient. Those three coal generators you see on the screenshots are running my entire base, including water heaters/coolers and the petroleum infrastructure. And they are probably at 50% capacity, if that. Haven't needed to build a fourth one and it's almost cycle 250.

Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Oct 24, 2018

# ? Oct 24, 2018 15:36

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# ? May 29, 2024 18:49

User0015: Nov 24, 2007; Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

1) Whats up with ceramic anyways? It's supposed to be an early game insulator, but it's insulation is 0.6, whereas an insulated sandstone tile is 0.02 (going off memory, but it's definitely a factor of 10 at least). I mean, you get ceramic earlier than insulated tiles, but it takes time to produce that ceramic, and you can easily research to insulated tiles in less than 5 cycles, which means by the time you've produced enough ceramic to make a handful of tiles, you can make hundreds of insulated whatever tiles that are, at minimum, ten times better than ceramic. Insulated ceramic tiles are no better, either. Seems like a heck of an oversight in regards to heat management. Ceramic should definitely be superior to insulated tile, even if it's earlier in the process, or the kiln needs to produce ceramic in much, much higher quantities than it does now.

2) Everyone hates on algae terrariums, but one thing you can do to decrease their manual labor is to flood them. I just experimented with this, but you can dump more than 1kg of water onto the algae terrarium and it'll still continue to produce O2, eat CO2, and it won't leak polluted oxygen, which means the only maintenance needed for them are algae and to eventually empty them of PW, which takes a while to build up. You can also place them under a light source, and they become incredibly efficient compared to deoxidizers. If you factor in the light source, they are far more efficient than deoxidizers despite now needing power.

Their real drawbacks aren't to bad until you get automated power (smart battery + coal), it's more that they become germ infested pits you'll have to be careful with to avoid spreading disease everywhere. And take it from me, an outbreak of food poisoning is equally comical and devastating, especially if you don't take precautions and your dupes expel PW directly into your main clean water source.

edit - I meant 1000kg of water, or whatever. Enough to fill a tile with water.

User0015 fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Oct 24, 2018

# ? Oct 24, 2018 17:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Oxygen Not Included - The result was disgusting

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