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shirts and skins posted:Then why on earth did you say anything Always check the rap sheet. Career shithead.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:48
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What is the central theme of OOTS? I feel like we are close enough to the end to be able to have a stab at it, and it's enough of a conscious piece of pop literature that it will have one. To me it's in people as objects, versus people as people. Consider redcloaks speech to tsukiko, when he had no reason to lie. Compare that to the Order.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:16
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fathers being obsolete and/or fuckers ?
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Oct 22, 2018 04:27
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That's a weak theme, though I do think we can draw some tentative conclusions about Rich's dad. What else?
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Oct 22, 2018 04:32
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really, it's about the spell slots we made along the way
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Oct 22, 2018 04:34
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How do you beat a campaign? One 5 foot step at a time
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Oct 22, 2018 04:36
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dreadmojo posted:That's a weak theme, though I do think we can draw some tentative conclusions about Rich's dad. What else? I think the central theme is learning from previous generations and also learning that previous generations are flawed and you can't discount them but also need to grow past them. "Bad Dad" plays into this but especially with the reveal of the cycle of worlds and how the only way to fix it is something new..
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Oct 22, 2018 04:38
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I don’t know if there’s one central theme, but if I had to pick one, I’d say redemption / atoning for past mistakes. See Celia’s argument at the trail, Roy’s judgment after his death, the difference in Vaarsuvius’ (and to a lesser extent, Belkar’s) redemption arcs to Miko’s final moments. There’s probably more and they could be fleshed out better - this is all I could think of off the top of my head.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:40
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The central theme is "protect your thumbs" Elan even sang a song about it.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:42
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dreadmojo posted:How do you beat a campaign? One 5 foot step at a time The thing about dungeon crawls? The dungeon always wins.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:46
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MildShow posted:I dont know if theres one central theme, but if I had to pick one, Id say redemption / atoning for past mistakes. See Celias argument at the trail, Roys judgment after his death, the difference in Vaarsuvius (and to a lesser extent, Belkars) redemption arcs to Mikos final moments. Theres probably more and they could be fleshed out better - this is all I could think of off the top of my head. I think it's acceptance over redemption, as in accepting who you are and what role you wanna play in this world. The Snarl is basically setting up a situation where people are gonna have to accept a new God to save the world, which itself was mirrored by Redcloak accepting his fellow hobgoblins to win the siege. Roy has accepted he isn't his father and shouldn't be, Belkar has accepted he can be more than a psycho murderer, V has accepted that their search for power was harmful and maybe they should chill the gently caress out. I think the endgame will be Redcloak helping the Order instead of someone taking over his mantle, because he'll accept there's a different way to do poo poo.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:58
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dreadmojo posted:What is the central theme of OOTS? You could probably break it down by character more easily than the work as a whole. OotS is an ensemble piece with a lot of moving parts. V's is about the value of humility and flexibility, Belkar's is about the value of delaying your gratification, Roy's is about learning to trust the people closest to you (and to know when to let go of an argument that isn't doing you any good), Elan's got a lot tied up in there about the relationship between reality and narrative, Durkon's never really had an arc until just recently and his was mostly about tradition, Redcloak has a lot to say about nature vs. nurture as it applies to a fantasy setting...
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Oct 22, 2018 05:00
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ImpAtom posted:I think the central theme is learning from previous generations and also learning that previous generations are flawed and you can't discount them but also need to grow past them. This is my favorite answer because it’s also D&D relevant.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:15
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I think the biggest theme is finding meaning in what you're doing. The adventure started out as a couple disjointed boilerplate quests, but now everybody's real invested in their grand quest to save the world. Similarly, every character has had a turning point where they start to care about what they're doing and about the people they're doing it with, and even the gods themselves have upped their game. And running counter to all that is Miko, who only ever cared about her destiny and her values over others', and Xykon, who doesn't really care about anything. They never bothered to adapt to their circumstances rather than the other way around. That may also be the whole protagonist/antagonist divide too though.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think the biggest theme is finding meaning in what you're doing. The adventure started out as a couple disjointed boilerplate quests, but now everybody's real invested in their grand quest to save the world. Similarly, every character has had a turning point where they start to care about what they're doing and about the people they're doing it with, and even the gods themselves have upped their game. Yes, I think that's part of it for sure. I feel like this strip is key, somehow. 
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Oct 22, 2018 05:42
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If we're looking for the 'single strip that defines oots' then it's the 'adapt or die' Belkar fever dream one. (On a train so no link). Lots of moving parts and themes, but almost all the character arcs come down to 'how much are you willing to change to achieve you goals/do the right thing/whatever'?
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Oct 22, 2018 08:44
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i think there's probably a similar strip for each character, but it seems to always be some variant of who has power and what form that power takes - viz xykon's speech to V.
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Oct 22, 2018 09:43
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I don't think you can really pin one theme to it but the one that's most prominent to me is about how everyone's family Dynamics is pretty hosed. Tbh a large part of the comic seems to be about how severing is good and cool
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Oct 22, 2018 10:45
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Both Durkon and O-Chul come from extremely functional, loving families, and look how they turned out.
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Oct 22, 2018 11:41
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mandatory lesbian posted:I don't think you can really pin one theme to it but the one that's most prominent to me is about how everyone's family Dynamics is pretty hosed. Tbh a large part of the comic seems to be about how severing is good and cool Specifically dads
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Oct 22, 2018 11:49
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Order of the Stick: Dads Bad, So What
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Oct 22, 2018 11:50
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Dad Bad, Character Traumatised is such a consistent theme of genre fiction that it's kind of fascinating. Like, what is causing this? Are dads, historically, unusually bad? Are the type of people who tend to write genre fiction also statistically more likely to have difficult relationships with their fathers?
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Oct 22, 2018 11:51
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Both Durkon and O-Chul come from extremely functional, loving families, and look how they turned out. Well Durkon did use the love from his family as a weapon to defeat that vampire.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:03
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Calaveron posted:Specifically dads Hey now, we don't have confirmation varsuvious is a dad or a mom
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Oct 22, 2018 12:04
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mandatory lesbian posted:Hey now, we don't have confirmation varsuvious is a dad or a mom We do because V did something monstrously lovely that affected their children like only a dad would so V dad so what
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Oct 22, 2018 12:09
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The only one who had a good dad was Durkon because in stickworld the only good dad is a dead dad
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Oct 22, 2018 12:10
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Android Blues posted:Dad Bad, Character Traumatised is such a consistent theme of genre fiction that it's kind of fascinating. Like, what is causing this? Are dads, historically, unusually bad? Are the type of people who tend to write genre fiction also statistically more likely to have difficult relationships with their fathers? Happy well adjusted people just live ordinary boring lives.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:14
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Alchenar posted:Happy well adjusted people just live ordinary boring lives. Right, but it's possible to have problems without having a bad dad. Why is Bad Dad so much more common than, for instance, Bad Mom? I feel like it's an interesting question, if maybe an unanswerable one.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:18
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Android Blues posted:Right, but it's possible to have problems without having a bad dad. Why is Bad Dad so much more common than, for instance, Bad Mom?
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Oct 22, 2018 12:30
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Calaveron posted:The only one who had a good dad was Durkon because in stickworld the only good dad is a dead dad False. Roy’s dad is dead and still lovely.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:47
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It's not like bad moms don't exist in fiction, but their damage tends to be much more personal and affecting their children's self-esteem more than their worldview. V is very much a bad dad by genre standards, but you could make a case for Ian and Tarquin being bad moms.The Question IRL posted:Well Durkon did use the love from his family as a weapon to defeat that vampire. And O-Chul personally reformed the Sapphire Guard because he viewed the monster races as sapient beings who were exactly as worthy of self-determination as anyone else. I mean, Hinjo helped, but we don't know anything about his parents and can only infer that they were also wholly decent since Shojo is also a certified bad dad. Redcloak and Xykon are the only characters with established loving parents who turned out damaged. Redcloak's damage is explicitly tied to his family being slaughtered like cattle and having no authority figures in his life outside of The Dark One and Xykon, and Xykon only had a decent home life because Rich did not want him to have a tragic backstory.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:48
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:It's not like bad moms don't exist in fiction, but their damage tends to be much more personal and affecting their children's self-esteem more than their worldview. V is very much a bad dad by genre standards, but you could make a case for Ian and Tarquin being bad moms. Doesn't Xykon kill not Professor X that his parents hire to help him? Then reanimated him as an Undead and have him kill his parents?
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Oct 22, 2018 13:37
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dreadmojo posted:What is the central theme of OOTS? Medieval high fantasy
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Oct 22, 2018 14:14
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Johnny Aztec posted:In today's culture, being a cis, straight male is considered offensive. As is right and just
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Oct 22, 2018 14:15
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Android Blues posted:Dad Bad, Character Traumatised is such a consistent theme of genre fiction that it's kind of fascinating. Like, what is causing this? Are dads, historically, unusually bad? Are the type of people who tend to write genre fiction also statistically more likely to have difficult relationships with their fathers? Now one of the oldest book on "adventuring" is the Odyssey and as much as don't think there is not a lot of chance the Illiad's Homer is female (too much love for a good old murder in that book), the Odyssey has always sounded to me like the kind of story a mother would tell her child to explain why dad isn't here. The book start with the adventures of Telemachus(literally named "far from battle" because dad went to Troy just after he was born) who want to know what happened to dad because a bunch of dicks want to marry mom. Then once he learned where dad is after visiting the most boring ruler in Greece, we follow the adventure of missing-but-still-alive Dad, who recount all his past 10 years of adventures, all of which are strangely symbolic of the kind of troubles most dads disappearing during a trip for the mystical pack of cigarette could have met, as imagined by/for a 5 years old kid: _he crashed his ships into an island after a botched pirating attempt (aka "dad was kinda a rebel and died in a bike accident") _he and his crew had an encounter with the Lotus-eaters (aka "dad is now a junky") _he pissed some Cyclops and the _a greedy sailor opened the bag of winds and hosed the whole crew (aka "dad got into some business troubles") _he encountered the cannibalistic Laestrygonians (aka "a serial killer/psychiatrist named Hannibal murdered dad") _he met the wrong kind of "other woman", the kind who can turn men into pigs, if you know what i mean (aka "dad left mom for that total whore named Circe") _he went to hell and back (aka "dad got a heart attack and is stuck in a coma state") _he met the sirens (aka "dad then learned about bitcoins") _he sailed between the monster Scylla and the whirlpool Charybdis (aka "dad then tried a career as a daredevil stuntman") _he hosed with Zeus cattle (aka "dad hosed with the church") _he was trapped on an island with a super nice Nymph(aka "dad left mom for that total super nice sex goddess named Calypso") Zulily Zoetrope posted:It's not like bad moms don't exist in fiction, Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 14:20
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Android Blues posted:Dad Bad, Character Traumatised is such a consistent theme of genre fiction that it's kind of fascinating. Like, what is causing this? Are dads, historically, unusually bad? Are the type of people who tend to write genre fiction also statistically more likely to have difficult relationships with their fathers? Patriarchal culture values the father over the mother, and also values the male experience over the female one, so there are more movies about men trying to be their bad dads than there are about women trying to be their mean moms.
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Oct 22, 2018 14:48
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Traditionally, the father is the one with all the power in a family unit (and exerts the power of the family in its place in society) so anything that goes wrong with a family is his fault. That being said, only Roy's the one with the truly dysfunctional relationship with his father. Haley's father genuinely tried to do what's best for her and tried to become a better person for her, and even though what he taught her to help her survive in a crime-infested hellhole messed her up later in life, they both reconciled in the end. Elan's father seems like he's genuinely trying to be the best father he can be, just he's also an evil man running an empire of suffering as well. Worst thing he ever did as a father was give Nale what threw a tantrum about wanting. Durkon had an alright father and a surplus of good father figures in his life. Incidentally, when I did my reread, I'm surprised at how many characters died for keeps in the comic. The Linear Guild kobolds, Shojo, Miko, Therkla, Kubota, Tsukiko, Crystal, Brainy Pete, black dragon mom, resistance mustache paladin, Malack, Nale, Bozzok, and Minrah, assuming she sticks with Valhalla when Durkon comes back. It never really bugged me as much as character death normally does in stories, since it's not gratuitous or gory. Most of the characters get proper death scenes too, it's seldom just offhand.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:54
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The Question IRL posted:Doesn't Xykon kill not Professor X that his parents hire to help him? Then reanimated him as an Undead and have him kill his parents? He did indeed. But right up until he murdered his own parents, he had a more stable home life than any OotS character who isn't Durkon or O-Chul.
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Oct 22, 2018 17:57
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I’m pretty sure the worst thing Tarquin ever did as a father was murder his son
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Oct 22, 2018 18:26
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And threatened to cut off the hand of his other son so he could make the arc into a Star Wars shout-out.
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Oct 22, 2018 18:57
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