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Turkish state media is claiming that MbS spoke to Khashoggi on the phone at the consulate and asked him to come home, and when he refused, MbS sanctioned the murder on the spot.
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Oct 21, 2018 |
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Oct 21, 2018 22:12
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Man the Turks are the gift that keeps on giving in this. They are really not letting up. I wish they'd just release, or leak whatever recording they have. Imagine if they really had MBS on tape ordering a murder lol.
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Oct 21, 2018 22:42
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Erdogan will apparently reveal more information on Tuesday, hopefully they'll finally release some audio, although with the current leaks to the Turkish press it's been unending pressure, and the Saudi's have managed to make mis-steps at every single stage of the process.
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Oct 21, 2018 22:49
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Erdogan using his rear end in a top hat powers for good for once.
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Oct 21, 2018 22:50
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Grape posted:Erdogan using his rear end in a top hat powers for good for once. It's also kinda mind-blowing Yeni Şafak is leading the reporting on this, they're usually total rabidly pro-government trash, but that's probably why now they have the inside scoop on everything.
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Oct 21, 2018 22:52
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Brown Moses posted:It's also kinda mind-blowing Yeni Şafak is leading the reporting on this, they're usually total rabidly pro-government trash, but that's probably why now they have the inside scoop on everything. That said, that's probably a reason to be a little hesitant about trusting the more lurid details too much. The Turkish government is a player with an agenda and a questionable regard for the truth, too.
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Oct 21, 2018 23:00
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enraged_camel posted:I can relate to your cynicism but I disagree. I don't know man, kidnapping a head of state forcing him to resign and trying to start a Civil war in that country, not much reaction. Declaring a blockade on Qatar and threatening to invade, not much reaction. Torture Hotel he was called a reformer. Yemen is barely mentioned in the US press. Kinda think this is the case of MBS choosing the wrong victim rather than new behavior on his part.
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Oct 22, 2018 01:17
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The Qatar blockade was a pretty big deal, it was just handled through quasi normal channels on all sides (bribes to Jared notwithstanding). I'll grant the Lebanon PM thing still blows my mind.
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Oct 22, 2018 01:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:The Qatar blockade was a pretty big deal, it was just handled through quasi normal channels on all sides (bribes to Jared notwithstanding). Yeah. It's like he skimmed over medieval history. You "adopt" the child of the person you want to have under your thumb; you don't try to get them to say what you want and then just let them go!
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Oct 22, 2018 01:23
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Yeah. It's like he skimmed over medieval history. You "adopt" the child of the person you want to have under your thumb; you don't try to get them to say what you want and then just let them go! I wonder how many Saudi royals play Crusader Kings the computer game, I mean, not larping it
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Oct 22, 2018 01:29
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Brown Moses posted:It's also kinda mind-blowing Yeni Şafak is leading the reporting on this, they're usually total rabidly pro-government trash, but that's probably why now they have the inside scoop on everything. I'm curious if the guys who were regularly assigned to listening to the Saudi consulate heard about this in the early planning stages and then instantly called their higher ups at each level of escalation until they had a whole room of Turkish generals and ministers and poo poo listening to this murder clown show as it happened live. Geopolitical concerns aside, this killing struck some major nerve in the Turkish government.
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Oct 22, 2018 01:51
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm curious if the guys who were regularly assigned to listening to the Saudi consulate heard about this in the early planning stages and then instantly called their higher ups at each level of escalation until they had a whole room of Turkish generals and ministers and poo poo listening to this murder clown show as it happened live. Imagine being the guy who's used to listening to visa interviews and this starts going down.
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Oct 22, 2018 02:04
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axelord posted:I don't know man, kidnapping a head of state forcing him to resign and trying to start a Civil war in that country, not much reaction. Declaring a blockade on Qatar and threatening to invade, not much reaction. Torture Hotel he was called a reformer. Yemen is barely mentioned in the US press. Your original assertion was that what made Khashoggi the "wrong victim" was that he wrote for WaPo/NYT. This is what you said: quote:He'll be fine as long as he doesn't kill Washington Post or New York Times journalists. To which my response was, and still is: how exactly do you think events would have unfolded if the victim had been a conservative journalist?
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Oct 22, 2018 02:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm curious if the guys who were regularly assigned to listening to the Saudi consulate heard about this in the early planning stages and then instantly called their higher ups at each level of escalation until they had a whole room of Turkish generals and ministers and poo poo listening to this murder clown show as it happened live. This is the start of a great Coen brothers movie.
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Oct 22, 2018 02:25
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Imagine being the guy who's used to listening to visa interviews and this starts going down. Or it was the fiance that tipped them off. Then someone went back to the archive for that day and started going through it.
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Oct 22, 2018 02:57
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So, as I understand it, the act of killing of Khashoggi isn't really all that new of a move for the Saudis. The usual play would have been to abduct him and fly him back to Saudi to disappear him. That was possibly even the plan, with his death at the consulate being a gently caress up that they tried to cover-up. Regardless, still very within the Saudi's normal MO. What's really new and shocking is that Turkey called the Saudis out on it, and is now keeping everyone riled up about it. From what I can gather, this seems to be a new front in the cold war that Qatar got into with Saudi, with Turkey coming out swinging against the Saudis. I'm happy to see the Saudis taken down a peg, but I'm not thrilled to see Erdogan's Turkey starting to feel its oats and make power plays like this. I'm also worried about the western establishment getting overly enmeshed with Qatari/Turkish interests, in the way that they previously got way too enmeshed with Saudi interests.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:07
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enraged_camel posted:Your original assertion was that what made Khashoggi the "wrong victim" was that he wrote for WaPo/NYT. This is what you said: They care because they see him as one of them. It doesn't matter if it's a conservative or liberal it's if they see him/her as one of them. You know MBS has been arresting liberal activists in Saudi Arabia right? The response has been muted. More has been made about MBS allowing women to drive then MBS locking up Female activists.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:13
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Haystack posted:I'm happy to see the Saudis taken down a peg, but I'm not thrilled to see Erdogan's Turkey starting to feel its oats and make power plays like this. I'm also worried about the western establishment getting overly enmeshed with Qatari/Turkish interests, in the way that they previously got way too enmeshed with Saudi interests. We're still supporting Kurdish rebels in Syria, and Erdogan's practically daring us to sanction him over buying Iranian oil, so I wouldn't be too worried just yet. There's plenty of daylight between the US and Turkey.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8rDHAQ09BM Moderator note: this is Islamist propaganda, I suggest that you do not click on it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 03:37
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Thanks, I'm pretty sure I'm on a list now.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:38
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Haystack posted:What's really new and shocking is that Turkey called the Saudis out on it, and is now keeping everyone riled up about it. Yeah, Turkey has been applying steady pressure from the get go. On the other hand, Saudi actions and responses certainly helped. Their poo poo is so poorly thought out it would be insulting to ignore. They keep compounding it by lying so badly, which makes for great headlines and keeps the news cycle moving. Its like in the US, where there are a lot of politicians including Trump himself who would love to look the other way and forget about this, but even the most craven are acknowledging that this is hosed up.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:49
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Sinteres posted:We're still supporting Kurdish rebels in Syria, and Erdogan's practically daring us to sanction him over buying Iranian oil, so I wouldn't be too worried just yet. There's plenty of daylight between the US and Turkey. Turkey I'm not too worried about, but Qatar I'm less certain about. I really don't know a ton about Qatar besides their Al-Jazeera cred. I wouldn't have expected the US to lick Saudi boots either, but hey, here were are.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:49
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Count Roland posted:Or it was the fiance that tipped them off. Then someone went back to the archive for that day and started going through it. That's more likely, but less darkly humorous.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:56
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Throatwarbler posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8rDHAQ09BM while I routinely watch and read daesh propaganda, I agree it should be tagged
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Oct 22, 2018 04:00
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GreyjoyBastard posted:while I routinely watch and read daesh propaganda, I agree it should be tagged I'm geniunely curious a) why you do this and b) how many FBI watchlists you're on.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:03
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm geniunely curious a) why you do this and b) how many FBI watchlists you're on. I too am curious about B, especially since I may well wind up seeking national security adjacent data work at some point, but I read and watch their surprisingly high production value, deeply horrific media products because it's super interesting to see what they're producing for their awful sympathizers and internal consumption. That's one of the most interesting things about it, actually - they're not trying to make GreyjoyBastard and Lightning Knight hate them less. They don't give a poo poo about that. It's 100% for people who are aligned with them. The CIA's open source analysts have never had an easier job in the entire history of the institution.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:36
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Little pedantic point: that video is not actually IS propaganda, rather it is produced by the "moderate" Islamist groups of Idlib, presumably al Qaeda but I couldn't tell exactly who on the first watch. I don't think that video stood out from all the other propaganda Throatwarbler posts but I guess putting that kind of video behind a link isn't too onerous a restriction. It's kind of funny tbh, it has the gentle pleading tone of a PBS fundraiser.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:37
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Out of curiosity, why did he get put on probation for that? Back when they Syrian Civil War was really in full swing I remember people not uncommonly posting stuff like that just for the morbid curiosity factor. Did the rules change? (I'm not sympathizing with the message, just to be clear).
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Oct 22, 2018 05:40
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Squalid posted:Little pedantic point: that video is not actually IS propaganda, rather it is produced by the "moderate" Islamist groups of Idlib, presumably al Qaeda but I couldn't tell exactly who on the first watch. I don't think that video stood out from all the other propaganda Throatwarbler posts but I guess putting that kind of video behind a link isn't too onerous a restriction. My bad, though al Qaeda isn't much better, no? To be honest, if he had clearly labeled what it was, it may have been ok, but I think it's bad for the forums to allow the posting of blind links to that type of content. ^ because he didn't label what it was, primarily. Edit: I'll make a clear mod declaration, which is that content like that is clearly relevant to this thread, but it should be clearly labeled when it is posted, because it's probably not work safe.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:41
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Lightning Knight posted:My bad, though al Qaeda isn't much better, no? Yeah I don't have much sympathy for Throatwarbler because posting lovely propaganda without commentary is kind of his modus operandi, and it is annoying. It's just more often he posts regime propaganda. I don't think anyone is going to object to keeping that kind of junk behind urls or at least requiring a little bit of context.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:46
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Throatwarbler posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8rDHAQ09BM This isn't IS propaganda. Abu Walid al Shishani heads a tiny salafi grouplet which sided with JaN over IS. Here he seems be justifying his independence from larger salafi rebel outfits while asking for a monetary support.
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Oct 22, 2018 05:52
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Wez posted:This isn't IS propaganda. I edited the post to be more correct, was my understanding still faulty?
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Oct 22, 2018 05:53
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Lightning Knight posted:I edited the post to be more correct, was my understanding still faulty? looks good, this thread just happens to be the place to make pedantic distinction about which specific gang of thugs is offering you tote bags in exchange for a modest monthly donation. The regulars just can't help themselves.
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Oct 22, 2018 06:39
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Squalid posted:looks good, this thread just happens to be the place to make pedantic distinction about which specific gang of thugs is offering you tote bags in exchange for a modest monthly donation. The regulars just can't help themselves. That's ok, I should've probably asked in the thread. I was responding to a report, and the report called it ISIS propaganda, and I took them at face value because I am dumb and do not understand the nuances of Middle Eastern politics or which armed group represents what ideology. Anyway, as I said: that type of content is relevant to this thread, but it should be clearly labeled as to what it is and who produced it, as well as probably tagged NSFW. Unmarked links to stuff like that will earn you a 6er and should be reported.
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Oct 22, 2018 06:42
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https://twitter.com/ZeinakhodrAljaz/status/1054317169088098304
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Oct 22, 2018 11:29
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https://giant.gfycat.com/IlliterateSlimyAbalone.webm
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Oct 22, 2018 11:32
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https://twitter.com/NewDay/status/1054313336056176640
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Oct 22, 2018 11:44
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This just gets dumber and dumber.
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Oct 22, 2018 11:51
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Koaxke posted:Out of curiosity, why did he get put on probation for that? Back when they Syrian Civil War was really in full swing I remember people not uncommonly posting stuff like that just for the morbid curiosity factor. Did the rules change? (I'm not sympathizing with the message, just to be clear). It makes the Syrian opposition look like a bunch of insane sectarian murderers. It hurts the narrative of this thread.
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Oct 22, 2018 11:57
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Check out this sweet post from democracy man;Radio Prune posted:Equal rights are important, which is why a totalitarian fascist police state that runs literal death camps > a government of majoritarian rule that might not have equality for religious minorities.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:00
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