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HEY GUNS posted:given what we know about human nature, you know someone, somewhere, attempted to either fight one or gently caress it who here hasn't fought a four-legged animal at one time or other, I'm just saying that actually training them for war would really terrible news for who ever got to be on the receiving end.
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Oct 21, 2018 20:38
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Here we go. Feds are investigating the Church again. Looks like someone finally had the will to respond to 'we'll investigate internally' with 'no, you don't get to cover this up again'.quote:On Thursday we learned that federal prosecutors in Pennsylvania have taken a step long-sought by survivors of clergy sexual abuse: They launched a federal investigation into the Catholic Church. Dare I hope that this will light a fire under the powers that be?
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Oct 21, 2018 21:20
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can’t help but think the motivation for the justice department isn’t exactly concern for the well-being of children victims not under this administration oh well, the investigation is still a good thing, even if the motivation is “gently caress papists”
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Oct 21, 2018 22:44
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Given that this started off of the results of a state-level grand jury investigation, I suspect there's less 'gently caress papists' and more 'you cannot get your house in order and we cannot tolerate the bad actors' involved.
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Oct 21, 2018 23:59
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this is less a "oh no catholic discrimination" thing and more a "i don't trust the federal government under trump to NOT be trying to gently caress anybody and everybody over who isn't a white evangelical"
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Oct 22, 2018 00:12
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A very fair point. 
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Oct 22, 2018 00:22
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Senju Kannon posted:can’t help but think the motivation for the justice department isn’t exactly concern for the well-being of children victims Ehh, I have no particular reason to believe EDPA is being deployed by anti-papist evangelicals. Note that at least one of the equivalent state offices is investigating Donald Trump, the man himself. Careerists gonna careerist and afaik the FBI / DOJ don't have an institutional anti-Catholic bias.
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Oct 22, 2018 01:26
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if it was state-directed in pennsylvania the chances are very good that everyone involved's a catholic
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Oct 22, 2018 07:18
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HEY GUNS posted:if it was state-directed in pennsylvania the chances are very good that everyone involved's a catholic Nearly all Catholics I know are so thoroughly fed up with the hierarchy that they’re welcoming this shakedown. Including many who otherwise gave the bishops the benefit of the doubt in the past.
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Oct 22, 2018 07:27
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Holy cow, my class is reenacting the Scopes-trial today, and I'm representing the prosecution! Gonna get mah W.J. Bryan on 
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Oct 22, 2018 08:28
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i will admit my reaction is entirely based on a prior reaction i had to a conservative cartoonist talking about how horrible the philidelphia situation was with "priest molester" caricatures, and the fact that self-same cartoonist was a roy moore supporter. it was like "wait a minute, why do you have a good take now?!" i just kinda feel the same about the whole executive branch (and judicial branch at this point) and can't help but feel like anything they do that's good is for the wrong reasons
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Oct 22, 2018 08:34
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Tias posted:Holy cow, my class is reenacting the Scopes-trial today, and I'm representing the prosecution! Gonna get mah W.J. Bryan on The best part about the Scopes Trial is that I bet 99% of the population can't tell you: 1. Who the actual prosecuting attorney was Or 2. Who, besides Darrow, was on the defense team.
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Oct 22, 2018 11:39
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Not Bryan? That's what my textbooks says, though. Originally the prosecution consisted of the Hicks couple, friends of Scopes himself, then was taken over by Tom Stewart. John Neal, a law professor from Knoxville, was on the defense as well. The rest I would have to look up to know.
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Oct 22, 2018 11:50
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ProperGanderPusher posted:Nearly all Catholics I know are so thoroughly fed up with the hierarchy that they’re welcoming this shakedown. Including many who otherwise gave the bishops the benefit of the doubt in the past. Yes, the investigation seems to be universally welcomed by American Catholics off all types from 'the Pope is a communist paedophile, and only our glorious American investigators can bring him down' to 'we really need a full body cleansing at this point if we want to be part of Christ's Mystical Body'.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:30
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Tias posted:Not Bryan? That's what my textbooks says, though. Bryan was on the prosecution team, but yes, first the Hicks brothers and then Stewart led the prosecution. And the comment wasnt addressed to you, so much as general bemusement about the fact that it seems like most people's only knowledge of the Scopes trial was the play Inherit the Wind.
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Oct 22, 2018 12:46
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Epicurius posted:Bryan was on the prosecution team, but yes, first the Hicks brothers and then Stewart led the prosecution. Does every US school district do that play in English class at some point during middle school or HS, or just where I grew up? Gimme some of that ol' time curriculum?
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Oct 22, 2018 13:23
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I don't think we ever did a production of it, but we definitely read it. Of course, I went to a Catholic school, so probably not quite the same curriculum.
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Oct 22, 2018 14:04
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Spacewolf posted:Does every US school district do that play in English class at some point during middle school or HS, or just where I grew up? That and The Crucible.
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Oct 22, 2018 14:11
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It's closer to you being in the US, but I'm pretty impressed with my advanced Religion class including such a long, firm overview of christian fundamentalism. We've been over everything from Puritans to various strains of seperatist protestantism, as well as evangelicalism and now it's the 2 waves of fundamentalism, currently dealing with the Scopes trial.
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Oct 22, 2018 14:45
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Spacewolf posted:Does every US school district do that play in English class at some point during middle school or HS, or just where I grew up? No, but the Scopes trial itself is often covered in social studies -- in cursory detail, so stuff like the succession of who was prosecuting absolutely gets left out. (I think I may have heard that somewhere else at some point, but couldn't have told you so if you asked and definitely wasn't taught it in school.)
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Oct 22, 2018 16:45
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Senju Kannon posted:i just kinda feel the same about the whole executive branch (and judicial branch at this point) and can't help but feel like anything they do that's good is for the wrong reasons the justice department has a lot of career lawyers, it isn't all political appointees taking marching orders from Sessions
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Oct 23, 2018 01:29
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HEY GUNS posted:if it was state-directed in pennsylvania the chances are very good that everyone involved's a catholic I wasn't gonna bring it up but literally half my extended family (possibly more, by population, although they're competing with awful Kentucky rednecks) is Pennsylvania German Catholics they're everywhere up there can't throw a rock without hearing someone pray to the saint of smiting people for chucking rocks in random directions
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Oct 23, 2018 07:32
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Senju Kannon posted:i will admit my reaction is entirely based on a prior reaction i had to a conservative cartoonist talking about how horrible the philidelphia situation was with "priest molester" caricatures, and the fact that self-same cartoonist was a roy moore supporter. it was like "wait a minute, why do you have a good take now?!" consider reevaluating your opinion of the human beings who did their jobs under Bush, did their jobs under Obama, are doing their jobs under Trump, and will do their jobs under Sanders
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Oct 23, 2018 07:39
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there are actually a lot of Lutherans in Pennsylvania
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Oct 23, 2018 07:41
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Lutha Mahtin posted:there are actually a lot of Lutherans in Pennsylvania pff, what are the odds that a heavily German area would have any meaningful number of Lutherans alternatively, I think we have discovered why the federal DOJ office there has struck against the papists. At long last, the supporters of Protestantism's first and greatest shitposter shall have their revenge! Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 07:44
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GreyjoyBastard posted:consider reevaluating your opinion of the human beings who did their jobs under Bush, did their jobs under Obama, are doing their jobs under Trump, and will do their jobs under Sanders isn't their agenda set by the person in charge of the DOJ? so like, people who were told to come up with arguments against LGBT rights were then told to come up with arguments for LGBT rights and then back to against LGBT rights? kinda hard to not see those people as mindless drones at the beck and call of the administration tbh
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Oct 23, 2018 08:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I wasn't gonna bring it up but literally half my extended family (possibly more, by population, although they're competing with awful Kentucky rednecks) is Pennsylvania German Catholics
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Oct 23, 2018 10:42
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Senju Kannon posted:kinda hard to not see those people as mindless drones at the beck and call of the administration tbh Senju Kannon posted:isn't their agenda set by the person in charge of the DOJ?
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Oct 23, 2018 10:54
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actually my view on power is that there should be no positions of power because, once again, i'm an anarchist also the dude you all pointed to as the reason why i apparently "call everyone i disagree with fascist" (still not true, i disagree with clinton and i call her a neoliberal piece of poo poo who would have no problem WORKING with fascists but would only be a fascist in the sense that moving further to the right in order to avoid the left gaining any sort of political traction is what neoliberals do) is someone YOU implied was a fascist because the groups he hangs around are themselves full of fascists, so like... where the gently caress do you get "i call everyone i disagree with" a fascist unless for some reason you think open white supremacists in the republican party are somehow not fascist, in which case i think you have brain worms from all those medieval german texts you read and fantasize about as though you'd be someone important and not a peasant who would have been married off to some poor dude and died in childbirth regardless of how you feel about your gender, or become a nun if you were lucky enough to be born in the catholic part of europe that actually allowed people assigned female at birth to not be forced into loveless marriages that often ended, again, with people dying in childbirth (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 23, 2018 11:08
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i wouldn't go after you with a baseball bat because your actual political ideology is incredibly boring and absolutely irrelevant. you're a monarchist with classical liberal attitudes about civil rights and decorum, which in global terms basically means "irrelevant." you would know this, if you weren't too busy fantasizing about riding a horse into battle while making GBS threads yourself to death because on a long march you ran out of beer and had to drink water from a stream that hadn't been properly treated because people only knew about that fairly recently your political philosophy is less a philosophy and more a fetish for powdered wigs and calligraphy. new york times opinion columnists have more clout than anyone with your political ideas has. the failsons of nyt opinion columnists are more relevant to political debate than your political ideas. if you were ever to try to run for an election you would be lucky if a reporter decided to write a human interest story on the crazy person in sans coulottes running for city council
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Oct 23, 2018 11:12
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again, forgive me if i'm not more open to the idea that the grunts working in the federal government aren't answerable to the faults of the people in charge when the trump administration is trying its best to redefine "gender" legally, to the point where my gender change could, in their ideal situation, be changed back to male if i thought i was having a hard time finding work now... so yeah i don't give a gently caress about the federal cogs who make the government work, when the government is trying to do some loving horrible poo poo. and yeah, this one time it seems like people are doing a Good Thing for seemingly the reason that they should do something Good about the catholic sex abuse crisis. forgive me for being worried that the government of trump might only be allowing this to happen because they legitimately only care about catholic in terms of pro-life poo poo and the second roe v wade gets overturned we'll likely see a return to "fuckin papists" in terms of political rhetoric.
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Oct 23, 2018 11:16
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Senju, I get that you feel passionately about this, but... okay, yes, there's totally some anti-Catholicism out there, especially among Evangelicals, but people have presented you with reasons why that's probably not what's going on this time. We did done hosed up when it comes to handling children and young men abused by priests, brothers, and nuns, and whether or not the folks who did the denying and lying and hiding of abusers have repented, whether or not they've done sufficient penance or been purified in Purgatory, there's still temporal consequences to having sinned that grotesquely, and those consequences are coming home to roost. But even if it were - even if you were totally right that this was motivated by "lol we get to fry some mackerel-snappers!! let's direct our soulless drones to do some good ol' persecutin'!!" - attacking HEY GUNS like that is completely beyond the pale. Politics conversations in this thread seem to be whatever the Buddhist equivalent of a near occasion of sin is, for you; I get that you're afraid because you're more vulnerable than many of us, but that doesn't excuse attacking somebody else.
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Oct 23, 2018 12:50
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first of all, i got attacked first. second of all, i was very clear that i did not think it was solely motivated by that, i was just worried that it wasn't entirely altruistic because of this administration's glaring attempts at discrimination. like if i never said "yeah okay probably not in this case" then yeah, okay, probably not in this case but i don't think a healthy amount of caution that this administration might add more discrimination in their agenda (tho i should have realized it'd only be motivated by discrimination if it was the south west and not pennsylvania) is a bad thing. especially since, among right wing pundits, the anti-catholic sentiment is boiling beneath the surface anyway. let me reiterate; yeah, probably not in this case, but forgive me if i don't think any good thing the administration and by extension the justice department does is motivated by bad intentions
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Oct 23, 2018 13:25
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Last round of chemo today  Praying again for the thread's intentions, let me know what you got.
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Oct 23, 2018 15:02
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Pershing posted:Last round of chemo today That's great!
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Oct 23, 2018 15:06
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Pershing posted:Last round of chemo today
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Oct 23, 2018 15:33
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Good luck Pershing! Chuck in a prayer for my mum's health if you please, she's not been well.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:18
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And my grandmother. 88 years old, fell and cracked her pelvis yesterday. 
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Oct 23, 2018 16:27
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Pershing posted:Last round of chemo today These are from "A Prayer Book for Australia" which came (via several editions) from the Book of Common Prayer. [Orthodox chat: the Morning Prayers First Order concludes with a prayer of John Crysostom ["you have promised our prayers are heard when two or three gather etc"]): Almighty God, giver of life and health, Hear our prayers for Pershing, That by your blessing on [them] and those who minister to [them], [They] may be restored to health of body and mind According to your will, And in the prescence of your people give thanks to you; Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. Lord and heavenly Father, You strengthen those who suffer in body, mind and spirit; Lay your healing hands on Pershing, That [they] may be restored to health, And show [their] thankfulness with us, And be set free to serve you; Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen
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Oct 24, 2018 00:01
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^^^^ Thank you. US Bishops conference this year now a retreat at the Pope's 'request' He's sending the Preacher of The Papal Household to run the retreat...a Capuchin who sounds like a real hoot.
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Oct 24, 2018 00:38
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