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On another note, if we're getting Merchant Republics this DLC, when will we be getting Nomads, and can we eventually play the Space Pope?
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Oct 22, 2018 14:19
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Truga posted:Ideally, we'd get a straight up tech tree, with researched techs green, the "cards" you've drawn yellow, and everything else red shaded. Then you can mod the number of cards to 7000 and you get a free for all tech tree, or you leave it at 3 and keep the RNG. Could even have a slider! If you want to preserve the mystery a bit while still providing more information you could hide the tree by default and have yellows reveal the reds one layer deep.
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Oct 22, 2018 14:31
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Dareon posted:On another note, if we're getting Merchant Republics this DLC, when will we be getting Nomads, and can we eventually play the Space Pope? Robo-Jesus requires all of the universe's children to worship him.
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Oct 22, 2018 14:40
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Demiurge4 posted:What if they implement the invention system from Victoria 2? You pick over-arching theme techs that shape your empire and you roll inventions from there based on your development, leader traits and pop traits. Maybe ascencion perks should be the theme, unlocking a bunch of appropiate tech cards
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Oct 22, 2018 19:36
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I would really like to have a tech tree to look at in game, if only to visualize which tiers you're currently working at. Tech names and effects for things you haven't researched can stay hidden. Also a x100 weight to Ascension perk prerequisites if my third unlock slot is open and waiting.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:26
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I really like the idea of showing all the tech options available all at once rather than this random bullshit. One other thing I'd like to see is the "required number of techs of the previous tier" thing to also go away. I want to be able to dive way deep into some late-game techs at the expense of all else. gently caress it.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:27
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PittTheElder posted:Also a x100 weight to Ascension perk prerequisites if my third unlock slot is open and waiting. The whole idea of tech prereqs for perks is weird tbh.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:33
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Nothing turns me off Space 4X games more than hitting the research screen button and seeing the two hundred options sprawl before me like the guts of a molluscoid alien
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Oct 22, 2018 20:33
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Jay Rust posted:Nothing turns me off Space 4X games more than hitting the research screen button and seeing the two hundred options sprawl before me like the guts of a molluscoid alien Same. Specially when they do a dumb gimmick like endless space 2's. There was a real terrible period when games like this all needed big cumbersome 3d maps to show their tech trees/webs.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:36
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It's actually very easy to specialize in particular sections of tech. Choose as the lead scientist someone with the appropriate specialty. It affects both speed and likelihood of tech picks, so you can even have them out doing something else, then swap them in when you're finishing up the last month of research and weigh the dice toward something you want. Need better buildings and robots and infrastructure? Industry. Clear annoying blockers and get more core worlds? New Worlds. Command Limit and Fleet Limit? Military Theory. Better combat ships? Particles. Once I've finished the initial round of exploration with my +anomaly scientists, and start settling them in to augmenting my biggest research worlds, I'll often replace scientists as they die with a specialty I may find useful. Military Theory and Particles are common ones, or whichever ascension path I'm going for.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:41
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I always just roll with all genius.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:45
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Make the research tech screen like Path of Exile's passive skills tree! https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree Magnificent
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Oct 22, 2018 20:46
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I do like what they're doing with the card system, but without a tech tree its quite difficult to know what depends on what. For example from day 1 you can see all the ascension perks and can see what the techs needed are. But you have no way of knowing where those techs are in the tree. And while some of the tech descriptions have the "researching this will lead to further advances in _____ " lines they're pretty opaque and incomplete. For example its not at all clear that you need to research the upgraded administration buildings to advance robotics. A bit more discoverability here would go a long way I'd think.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:52
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DrSunshine posted:Make the research tech screen like Path of Exile's passive skills tree! *gif of Michael Scott from the hit TV series "The Office" screaming "NO! NO!!! NO!!!"*
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Oct 22, 2018 20:53
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Jay Rust posted:Nothing turns me off Space 4X games more than hitting the research screen button and seeing the two hundred options sprawl before me like the guts of a molluscoid alien I really like the idea of a darkened-out full tech tree that lights up as you research things, and reveals the next tech available after a possible research lead. Whoever suggested showing the tree with what you have researched in green, what cards you rolled this time in yellow, and the next techs after them grayed out but visible had a drat good idea.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:27
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GunnerJ posted:The whole idea of tech prereqs for perks is weird tbh. At the same time, though, I don't think you should be able to build enormous space habitats/rings/sensoria without the technology to build enormous things in space, or to manipulate genes without the tech for gene manipulation.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:50
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darthbob88 posted:At the same time, though, I don't think you should be able to build enormous space habitats/rings/sensoria without the technology to build enormous things in space, or to manipulate genes without the tech for gene manipulation. In that case, taking the perk should add the relevant pre-req tech as a guaranteed option if you don't already have it.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:52
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Jay Rust posted:Nothing turns me off Space 4X games more than hitting the research screen button and seeing the two hundred options sprawl before me like the guts of a molluscoid alien And on the other hand cool tech trees are one of my favorite things about 4x games and I think Stellaris would be well served with one
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Oct 22, 2018 21:53
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Baronjutter posted:Same. Specially when they do a dumb gimmick like endless space 2's. There was a point during EA when ES2's tech screen was laid out similar to how EL does it:  Not the most readable thing ever, but a hell of a lot better than what we ended up with. Then people complained that it wasn't enough like ES1... 
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Oct 22, 2018 22:03
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Strobe posted:I really like the idea of a darkened-out full tech tree that lights up as you research things, and reveals the next tech available after a possible research lead. Whoever suggested showing the tree with what you have researched in green, what cards you rolled this time in yellow, and the next techs after them grayed out but visible had a drat good idea.
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Oct 22, 2018 22:05
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Speaking of SotS research, one of the cool things it did is having different research costs depending on which connections you unlocked. Because getting gravitic beams is a lot easier if you have tractor beams than it is when you're trying to get to them from Spinal Laser mounts. Some of the cheaper connections were rarer, so sometimes you'd get a pretty deep tech earlier because you happened to roll a big discount connection to it, which lead to good variance in different playthroughs. Stuff like making Destroyer tech cheaper if you've already upgraded your corvettes because you already know how to reinforce ships, or giving you a discount on food production upgrades if you happen to already know how to genetically manipulate lifeforms.
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Oct 22, 2018 22:21
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GunnerJ posted:In that case, taking the perk should add the relevant pre-req tech as a guaranteed option if you don't already have it. Taking the Galactic Wonders ascension perk will make Megaengineering show up every time when you need to pick a new tech to research.
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Oct 22, 2018 22:56
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Have galactic wonders been weighted differently in terms of the AI picking it? I used to almost never see the AI build mega-structures but in the last 3 games I played about 75% of the late game countries managed to build the full set.
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Oct 22, 2018 22:58
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I have literally never seen the AI construct one.
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Oct 22, 2018 23:05
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I've seen awakened empires go on a building spree with gates, and maybe other empires build them too, but I don't recall off hand seeing anyone build a wonder itself. Or even restore one sitting in their borders. It's not because of a lack of resources either since the AI is usually loaded by the end game. I don't k ow why they don't bother with them.
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Oct 22, 2018 23:13
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I've seen awakened empires go on a building spree with gates, and maybe other empires build them too, but I don't recall off hand seeing anyone build a wonder itself. Or even restore one sitting in their borders. Weird, every surviving 2-bit empire in my most recent games all eventually build them. I was just surprised they bothered with the ascension picks. Total mix of ideologies too. Maybe that AI mod everyone likes does something? I don't have any mega-structure related mods.
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Oct 22, 2018 23:22
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Baronjutter posted:Weird, every surviving 2-bit empire in my most recent games all eventually build them. I was just surprised they bothered with the ascension picks. Total mix of ideologies too. Maybe that AI mod everyone likes does something? I don't have any mega-structure related mods. Oh the 1200-1300 hours I have in this game virtually all of that is playing unmodded. And even when I did try modding the only one I ever used for more than a trial run was CGM Budings, or something like that, which did ad new structures as well as some AI scripting but even then I don't recall anyone building anything. Maybe I'm just misremembering but I certainly know it hasn't been common.
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Oct 22, 2018 23:28
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Jay Rust posted:Nothing turns me off Space 4X games more than hitting the research screen button and seeing the two hundred options sprawl before me like the guts of a molluscoid alien What, you don't want to read through 200 techs and then carefully pick a minmax'd math avoiding the 80 trap techs?
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Oct 22, 2018 23:30
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OddObserver posted:What, you don't want to read through 200 techs and then carefully pick a minmax'd math avoiding the 80 trap techs? For me that always boils down to "which tech makes the carriers good" In Stellaris, that's none of them.
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Oct 22, 2018 23:41
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A procedural tech tree could be cool, I do like the deck system a lot. One thing I'd love is if techs had popups with procedural flavor text (quotes/journal entries from the researching scientist) ala Alpha Centauri upon being researched. Perks too.
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Oct 22, 2018 23:50
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Baronjutter posted:*gif of Michael Scott from the hit TV series "The Office" screaming "NO! NO!!! NO!!!"* The Path of Exile passive tree is actually an excellent take on class differentiation that doesn't put a hard limit on what you could possibly do in the game. All classes share the same tree, but start off in different places, so the player can choose to spend points to specialize in the class's optimal passive build or otherwise on branching off to do something outside of the class's normal routes. This leads to a much broader range of possibilities and spaces for players to invent exotic builds. I think a similar approach could be taken for a 4x game where your species' starting traits or ethics could predispose you towards certain techs but not lock you out of possibilities. You can sort of see that in the tendency for materialists to go robots and spiritualists to go down psionics -- like that but more.
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Oct 22, 2018 23:56
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Getting +research alternatives is functionally similar to getting rerolls. OTOH, rerolls would greatly devalue +alternatives.
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Oct 23, 2018 00:11
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Taking the Galactic Wonders ascension perk will make Megaengineering show up every time when you need to pick a new tech to research. Master Builders, not Galactic Wonders. You can't take Galactic Wonders unless you already have Mega-Engineering.
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Oct 23, 2018 00:22
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DrSunshine posted:The Path of Exile passive tree is actually an excellent take on class differentiation that doesn't put a hard limit on what you could possibly do in the game. All classes share the same tree, but start off in different places, so the player can choose to spend points to specialize in the class's optimal passive build or otherwise on branching off to do something outside of the class's normal routes. This leads to a much broader range of possibilities and spaces for players to invent exotic builds. I think a similar approach could be taken for a 4x game where your species' starting traits or ethics could predispose you towards certain techs but not lock you out of possibilities. You can sort of see that in the tendency for materialists to go robots and spiritualists to go down psionics -- like that but more. Of course then they basically ruined t with the ascendancy system so that if you want to use pets you're stuck with the Witch because she's the only one with pet bonuses in her ascendancy classes etc.
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Oct 23, 2018 00:26
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OddObserver posted:What, you don't want to read through 200 techs and then carefully pick a minmax'd math avoiding the 80 trap techs? My least favorite is civ: beyond earth which features an unreadable tech web in which each individual tech can, and sometimes but not always should, be researched up to three times
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Oct 23, 2018 01:19
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Has anyone ever had a federation victory work for them? I've got the achievement already from winning alone but I swear it always credits a different federation for winning when it ends. It's not a huge deal but it's a pain.
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Oct 23, 2018 01:29
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Taear posted:Has anyone ever had a federation victory work for them? I've got the achievement already from winning alone but I swear it always credits a different federation for winning when it ends. Not getting the cheevo for a win when my 1300 pop empire won a federation victory with some ~200 pop foxes and some ~150 pop hive mind shrooms was irritating! I can't even load the save and try again to see if I can get it a decade later because iron man. I read it credits whomever is leading the federation at the time the victory condition gets tripped. I don't have enough data to confirm this though. Related - does anyone know if you can win a game more than once? In the above save, can I disband my federation, go on a murder spree, and win the solo victory?
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Oct 23, 2018 02:40
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Just hit end game crisis with my Determined Exterminators. It was the Unbidden. First time ever since I started playing this game again. Even better - just a few years later some chucklefucks blew up one of the mercenary habitats and now there is a Great Khan. None of this poses a threat to me because I am in the unstoppable steamroller stage of existence. I don't joke when I say I've never created a civ this rich/powerful. 6x 120k fleets with room for at least 2 or 3 more if I needed them. I'm clearing 1.5k energy/1.5k minerals per month easy.
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Oct 23, 2018 03:21
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lol the Great Khan died almost immediately. Turns out when you're a mid game crisis and you waltz into the end game you're not long for this galaxy
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Oct 23, 2018 03:46
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Yessod posted:It's actually very easy to specialize in particular sections of tech. Choose as the lead scientist someone with the appropriate specialty. It affects both speed and likelihood of tech picks, so you can even have them out doing something else, then swap them in when you're finishing up the last month of research and weigh the dice toward something you want. Need better buildings and robots and infrastructure? Industry. Clear annoying blockers and get more core worlds? New Worlds. Command Limit and Fleet Limit? Military Theory. Better combat ships? Particles. gently caress that, I shouldn't have to micromanage my scientists or keep a stable of scientists to rotate according to my current tech desires. Just give me a policy or edict instead.
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Oct 23, 2018 03:48
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