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Don Gato posted:I remember when people thought Wood Elves were going to be OP since they could all shoot on the move and had insane archers. I mean they're still fun as hell to play as because I like going MAXIMUM GLASS CANNON but it turned out they had a lot of weaknesses that weren't apparent from streams since no one had any meta for them yet. But woodelves were op in multiplayer on release?
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Oct 23, 2018 05:15
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Anyhoo it's best to wait and see them in action and what the big balance patch will bring to the other factions like lizardmen.
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Oct 23, 2018 05:16
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i'm late to the party but i just got warhammer 1 and drat i turned my nose up at this game way too long. I know that supposedly all the dlc and warham 2 factions are more interesting but i'm really enjoying fuckin' around with dwarves. will probably try out the undead next. Is there a recommend dlc buy order for me to slam through when the next big sale is?
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Oct 23, 2018 06:32
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also what's the recommended way to like casual co-op this with a bud.
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Oct 23, 2018 06:33
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Impermanent posted:i'm late to the party but i just got warhammer 1 and drat i turned my nose up at this game way too long. I know that supposedly all the dlc and warham 2 factions are more interesting but i'm really enjoying fuckin' around with dwarves. will probably try out the undead next. Is there a recommend dlc buy order for me to slam through when the next big sale is? If you just want to stick with Warhammer 1 DLCs then King and the Warlord is a must have, the Grim and the Grave less so but still overall worth it for Empire and Vampire campaigns. After that it’s just whichever factions grab your interest the most.
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Oct 23, 2018 06:51
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Impermanent posted:i'm late to the party but i just got warhammer 1 and drat i turned my nose up at this game way too long. I know that supposedly all the dlc and warham 2 factions are more interesting but i'm really enjoying fuckin' around with dwarves. will probably try out the undead next. Is there a recommend dlc buy order for me to slam through when the next big sale is? None of the dlc is outright bad and you can have fun with all of them. A few are less interesting (see: Chaos Warriors, Grim and the Grave) but they each add something good. Get all the FLC. If I had to pick the best I'd go for the King and the Warlord, Norsca and then the Woodelves.
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Oct 23, 2018 07:31
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I dont know posted:That and also their lack of real cavalry. They seem like another dwarf like army. They do some things really well, but their roster has a lot of holes. They have mournghouls and rotting prometheans. This is hardly a 'all you get are gyrocopters' situation. Basically they are in the same cavalry situation as Greenskins.
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Oct 23, 2018 07:54
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Fangz posted:They have mournghouls and rotting prometheans. This is hardly a 'all you get are gyrocopters' situation. Basically they are in the same cavalry situation as Greenskins. Neither of those are shock cavalry, which is what I think people mean by real cavalry. I think the Rotting Prometheans were supposed to fit more in the Treekin niche; big ol' unmoveable wall?
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Oct 23, 2018 08:23
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Impermanent posted:also what's the recommended way to like casual co-op this with a bud. Pick factions that start near each other, but not both wood elves because the tree will gently caress over one of you. Remember to give control of some of your units to your partner during battles they aren't involved in. Some micro heavy units are usually a great choice.
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Oct 23, 2018 08:51
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which is the best way to build arkhan the black in campaign mode?
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Oct 23, 2018 09:56
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Impermanent posted:i'm late to the party but i just got warhammer 1 and drat i turned my nose up at this game way too long. I know that supposedly all the dlc and warham 2 factions are more interesting but i'm really enjoying fuckin' around with dwarves. will probably try out the undead next. Is there a recommend dlc buy order for me to slam through when the next big sale is? Warhammer 1's actually got a few things over 2. It runs better, turn times are shorter compared to WH2, and it's more complete as it's relatively done balancing and there's not really anything busted about the game. For DLC, Chaos and King and the Warlord are good value. Chaos' campaign got a re-work near the end so it's much more fun to play as them than some reviews might let on. King and the Warlord gives some valuable units to Dwarfs and Greenskins, and adds two interesting lords with unique starts and campaign mechanics. Wood Elves have a slow wind-up in terms of building economy/army but have a fun campaign with unique goals and events. Beastmen are turn-dumpy, but are a fun faction to play in battle, purely because Minotaurs just do beautiful things with the physics engine. Both of those faction packs each come with a small extra campaign kind of like Caesar in Gaul for Rome 2. Grim and the Grave has a few units like the Mortis Engine that really help the Vamps, while adding flavor to an already solid Empire roster (the two Lords don't add anything special like King and the Warlord- they're just Mannfred/Karl starts and campaign rules). Don't know if you still need to do it, but if you haven't grabbed the free DLC like Grombrindal or Norsca, you may have to activate it on Steam before you can play it in game.
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Oct 23, 2018 10:26
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Fangz posted:I expect Depth Guard to be pretty bad for their cost. Didn't they say that the VSea's weakness was supposed to be their lack of good frontline infantry? The Depth Guard in the tournament appeared stronger than they actually are because they were almost always fighting against the sort of units they're meant to counter. If they had been fighting great weapon infantry they wouldn't have performed nearly as well.
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Oct 23, 2018 11:27
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ThingOne posted:The Depth Guard in the tournament appeared stronger than they actually are because they were almost always fighting against the sort of units they're meant to counter. If they had been fighting great weapon infantry they wouldn't have performed nearly as well. Yeah, the "DEPTH GUARD OP! CA NERF!" more or less disappeared from chat after Wulfric styled on them with his mammoth.
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Oct 23, 2018 12:53
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The real MVPs of the roster are probably going to be the deck droppers with handguns. Flying AP missiles with a decent model count is  .
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Oct 23, 2018 13:02
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Wait, if I don't have King and the Warlord from TWW1 I'm missing greenskins units in Warhams 2? RoRs or just basic poo poo?
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Oct 23, 2018 13:07
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The Duggler posted:Wait, if I don't have King and the Warlord from TWW1 I'm missing greenskins units in Warhams 2? RoRs or just basic poo poo? Can you build Nasty Skulkers and squigs? Definitely the Skulkers but I can't remember if squigs are king and warlord or not.
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Oct 23, 2018 13:14
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Someone remind me of the process to get the "free" RoRs. Get one of those Total War accounts, allow them to spam me and then they send a Steam code?
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Oct 23, 2018 13:17
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Ravenfood posted:Can you build Nasty Skulkers and squigs? Definitely the Skulkers but I can't remember if squigs are king and warlord or not. Yeah, squigs are part of the DLC.
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Oct 23, 2018 13:37
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How would you go about making the Grimgors and dragonless Lokhirs of the world viable? Seems to me that unless he becomes like, significantly buffer than Kholek, I’m still never picking Grimgor. Being able to pick and choose fights with a mount and utilize spells and abilities is just way better than “get stuck in and fight infantry” Make him a better duelist and immune to knockdown? Ok, Azhag flies around spirit leeching him and bjuna/purple sunning his army.
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Oct 23, 2018 15:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:How would you go about making the Grimgors and dragonless Lokhirs of the world viable? Don't most armies have pretty effective anti-laege artillery?
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Oct 23, 2018 15:46
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I've mentioned it before but I hope the Three Kingdoms duel system gets backported for Warhammer so foot Lords can actually engage anything larger than them. Upping their mass only solves one problem.
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Oct 23, 2018 15:51
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:How would you go about making the Grimgors and dragonless Lokhirs of the world viable? I don't think most lords should get anything larger than a pegasus, personally, and then you have a nice continuum between "murderous in stuck-in combat", "good at charges and really mobile" and "loving stupidly mobile but more fragile". Some exceptions include Altars like Death Hags/Hellebrone/Volkmar, and maybe medium-weight monsters like Deathclaw, which should get some AoE in return for getting their one on one stuff dumpstered. A Death Hag on foot should murder one on an altar, and someone on a manticore should lose to the same Lord on a pegasus, horse, or foot. In return, the manticore would have more impact on the rest of the battle. As-is, at some point lords seem like they're just their mounts instead of actually being lords, which is weird. E: vvvv. Yeah having basically threw types of lords would be cool. Combat monsters, leaders, and casters. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 16:09
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:How would you go about making the Grimgors and dragonless Lokhirs of the world viable? I’d like to see foot lords get way more buffs towards acting as a general. So Karl on Deathclaw would be about mobility, damage and terror routing while Karl on foot would be about massive buffs to state troops fighting with him. Some sort of inspiration from seeing their emperor fighting with them back to back so they get lots of extra melee attack/defense and leadership, maybe some other stuff depending on the lord. Like state troops fighting within vision of Karl on foot are unbreakable so long as Franz isn’t wavering or worse.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:13
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Hopefully I can learn to mod this game and I'm just going to give Grimgor a "mount" that makes him Heirotitan size with some sweet flame decals
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Oct 23, 2018 16:19
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The core rules of how Total War combat works will always favor higher mobility and higher mass units. Like you could give Grimgor twice as much damage and 2000 more HP and make him immune to knockdowns and he'd still probably be worse than Kholek because Kholek can simply bulldoze out of fights he doesn't want and engage where he pleases. It's why cavalry is always so powerful.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:26
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Kanos posted:The core rules of how Total War combat works will always favor higher mobility and higher mass units. Like you could give Grimgor twice as much damage and 2000 more HP and make him immune to knockdowns and he'd still probably be worse than Kholek because Kholek can simply bulldoze out of fights he doesn't want and engage where he pleases. It's why cavalry is always so powerful. One takeaway I had from this tourney (as a relative newbie) is that Chariots are nightmarish engines of death that can more or less go where they want. Settra is one good example but iirc the Dark Elves v Skaven match also featured a basically unkillable chariot squad. What's the "best" kind of counter against those? Is the high level of micro one reason why they kept getting away?
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Oct 23, 2018 16:29
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Prop Wash posted:One takeaway I had from this tourney (as a relative newbie) is that Chariots are nightmarish engines of death that can more or less go where they want. Settra is one good example but iirc the Dark Elves v Skaven match also featured a basically unkillable chariot squad. What's the "best" kind of counter against those? Is the high level of micro one reason why they kept getting away? High mass cavalry or monstrous infantry. So for skaven rat ogres would be the best choice for pinning chariots
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Oct 23, 2018 16:30
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Grimgor doesn't have to be on a par with Azhag and Kholek in multiplayer, he just needs fun toys to play with so he isn't as boringly vanilla. Just give him some kind of interesting unique mechanic. Maybe a sword of torment type passive? Go rampage for a time in return for massive stat bonuses? I dunno. On the topic of backseat game design, people on reddit are asking for the return of naval trade route raiding from Shogun 2. Are. They. Mad?
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Oct 23, 2018 16:44
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Prop Wash posted:One takeaway I had from this tourney (as a relative newbie) is that Chariots are nightmarish engines of death that can more or less go where they want. Settra is one good example but iirc the Dark Elves v Skaven match also featured a basically unkillable chariot squad. What's the "best" kind of counter against those? Is the high level of micro one reason why they kept getting away? As Scrub-Niggurath said, the strongest counter for hit-and-run cavalry and chariots are units with enough size/mass to gum them up. This can be your own cavalry or monstrous infantry. Chariots can't bulldoze stuff like trolls and rat ogres, so if you position units like that around the soft spots enemy chariots and cavalry will want to run amok, you can get them stuck and murder them while they can't maneuver. There are other counters as well, like net spells and slowing abilities like the Dragonback Slayers have. The key point is that all of the counters to aggressive chariot/cavalry play except Net of Amyntok effects are reactive and defensive in nature, i.e. they rely on you having the appropriate counters in the appropriate spot at the right time, which cedes initiative to the attacker. If you've got two units of rat ogres to cover your line from enemy chariots, well, all the enemy chariots need to do is be where the rat ogres aren't and get away before they get there. The only thing that prevents chariots and shock cav from being wildly overpowered is the sheer level of micro good chariot/shock cav play requires, since chariots are huge micro queens and shock cav that aren't top tier rear end beaters like Blood Knights aren't far behind.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:01
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Whoever recommended Mixu's Legendary Lord pack, thank you. There is a submod for it for Choice and Consequence (though it just updates their stats, their skill trees use the stock game's version, not the nice C&C choices). Even still, each Elector count gets a unique skill line, and each province of the Empire gets a Legendary Hero that complements the Lord. It is particularly fun because many of the Lords/Heroes have particular specialties, generally getting bonuses vs Norsca, Greenskins, Vampire Counts, or Beastmen/Chaos and boosting the efficiency of some basic infantry unit like Swordsmen or Halberdiers.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:47
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Fangz posted:Grimgor doesn't have to be on a par with Azhag and Kholek in multiplayer, he just needs fun toys to play with so he isn't as boringly vanilla. Just give him some kind of interesting unique mechanic. Maybe a sword of torment type passive? Go rampage for a time in return for massive stat bonuses? I dunno. Most of the dedicated lord sninpers since Norsca have come equipped with some sort of taunt active ability that debuffs the targets speed and defense. Grimgor basically needs that and mass like the buffed gorebulls and he'd be essentially fine. Impermanent posted:i'm late to the party but i just got warhammer 1 and drat i turned my nose up at this game way too long. I know that supposedly all the dlc and warham 2 factions are more interesting but i'm really enjoying fuckin' around with dwarves. will probably try out the undead next. Is there a recommend dlc buy order for me to slam through when the next big sale is? Pick up all the free DLC obviously. Buy Norsca, The King and the Warlord, Wood elves, and Grim in the Grave roughly in that order with Chaos and Beastmen whenever you get around to it. The Chaos and Beastmen campaigns are bad and if you want to burn everything to the ground Norse is the one true campaign. If you want to play coop, there's a handful of good pair-ups. You can go full badlands brawl and play Greenskins and Bloody Handz. Any of the Bret factions will co-op well with each other or even Cassarone / Borderleaux and the Wood Elves or Bret + Empire. Both the the Norse campaigns or Norse + Beastmen/Chaos works well if you want to burn poo poo down.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:58
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The advantages of chariots are that they’re harder to pin and whittle down than cavalry, and if they have free reign they will mulch even armored anti large infantry unless you mess up and charge into them while they’re braced. The downsides are that they’re more micro intensive and unlike cavalry and small monsters they are completely useless against large targets. They’re also weak to focused AP missile fire but so is everything. They’re strong to be sure but they’re so specialized and focused that I don’t think they’re in danger of being dominant by any means.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:07
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Guys the first dlc to get is Norsca without a doubt. Far and away the best game 1 DLC. It was only free with game 2 preorders.
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Oct 23, 2018 19:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Guys the first dlc to get is Norsca without a doubt. Far and away the best game 1 DLC. It was only free with game 2 preorders. I must be in the minority for really loving the wood elf dlc for WH1, including the mini campaign - each zone of athel Loren was distinct on the campaign map but not on battle maps
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Oct 23, 2018 19:27
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I can't believe I slept on Bretonia, these guys rule
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Oct 23, 2018 20:53
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I can't believe I slept on Bretonia, these guys rule Bretonia's campaign is great in that it's about sending crusade armies to stomp the unchivalrous swine, rather than map painting. It's bad once you hit the point where you fight nothing but siege battles and your glorious knights can't climb walls. I think the beastman campaign is under rated, ninja armies bouncing around the map, fighting soft targets and then fading into the woods when large armies come to counter attack is good stuff. The AI seems to undervalue your strength so you can actually fight field battles, which is nice.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:31
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I know they mentioned Archaon getting ap, finally, but is Tyrion going to get it as well? I know he's nowhere near Grimgor's meme status but AP on him is a pretty glaring lack. But then it probably turns into a high elves already have two incredible lords and don't need a third? But I do hate that's not very good.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:04
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I'm sorry but fighting vs Skaven, early game, in CnC is sooooooo unfun. You'll be facing multiple stacks often before you can build a cav building and if you don't chase every clanrat and slave unit (including summons, which don't degrade), all the way off the map, they will regenerate to nearly full numbers and come back. Multiple times. Plus autoresolve loves to suck rat cock so much that a half-garrison I just defeated in the field (so tenish half-strength units) behind walls vs a full saurus stack is so unfavourable you'll lose outright if you don't fight it manually. Slog doesn't even begin to describe it  I keep wanting to do Mazda or Malekith before the update and then "oh yeah, rats"
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Oct 23, 2018 23:09
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I mean, Tyrion is still a decent lord, it's just that he's not Teclis or Alariel grade good so he's not in the meta right now. Grimgor is capital B Bad and he's actively detrimental to take because he's expensive as gently caress and incredibly vulnerable.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:23
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I dont know posted:Bretonia's campaign is great in that it's about sending crusade armies to stomp the unchivalrous swine, rather than map painting. It's bad once you hit the point where you fight nothing but siege battles and your glorious knights can't climb walls. This is why you bring a stack of peasants and trebs to follow your glorious knight army. A true crusade is nothing without a bunch of dirt farmers picking up your knights' horses' poo poo.
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Oct 24, 2018 00:19
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