|
Crowley was never going to openly run against AOC after conceding. His goal in staying on the ballot is entirely about siphoning off votes from her to make her/her platform seem less legitimate. Everyone knows there will be a non-zero number of people who will vote for Crowley based on name recognition alone. In Crowley's wildest dreams, he'll siphon off enough votes from AOC not to get elected himself, but to tank her campaign and get the Republican elected.
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2018 23:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 02:16 |
|
|
Wasn't the Crowley campaign caught illegally putting up posters near the primary polling booths?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
Euphoriaphone posted:Crowley was never going to openly run against AOC after conceding. His goal in staying on the ballot is entirely about siphoning off votes from her to make her/her platform seem less legitimate. Everyone knows there will be a non-zero number of people who will vote for Crowley based on name recognition alone. In Crowley's wildest dreams, he'll siphon off enough votes from AOC not to get elected himself, but to tank her campaign and get the Republican elected. I live in NY14. I can assure you, it's a safe D seat. AOC is going to Congress. In fact it's the only bubble I'm filling in come November.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:11
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Wasn't the Crowley campaign caught illegally putting up posters near the primary polling booths? yes, but crowley had no idea about that and would've never agreed to it, because as we both know, he cherishes the laws of our elections
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
Obama’s speeches are such obvious stupid bullshit at this point. His matter-of-fact tone just makes it sound like he doesn’t give a poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:18
|
|
|
Matt Zerella posted:I live in NY14. I can assure you, it's a safe D seat. AOC is going to Congress. In fact it's the only bubble I'm filling in come November. Is there nothing at the local level to vote for?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:19
|
|
|
Frightening Knight posted:Is there nothing at the local level to vote for? There's some dickbag who wants to give cop cars bulletproof glass. NYC politics are bad. I might write Zephyr Teachout in for DA. No loving way am I voting for Cuomo or Gillibrand.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:23
|
|
|
Matt Zerella posted:There's some dickbag who wants to give cop cars bulletproof glass. That sucks.  You should write in Nixon and Williams imo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:24
|
|
|
Frightening Knight posted:That sucks. Yes good point on Nixon and Williams. I can't even vote WFP like I normally do because Crowley and Cuomo are sitting in those slots.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:26
|
|
|
Sitting on the slot is exactly the plan though, because if they can turn enough people off by being douchebags WFP might not get automatic ballot access on the next go round. I loathe strategic voting and would never presume to tell someone who they have to vote for, but it might be worth thinking about WFPs future position in relation to how much of a shitter Crowley is
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:39
|
|
|
Not a Step posted:Sitting on the slot is exactly the plan though, because if they can turn enough people off by being douchebags WFP might not get automatic ballot access on the next go round. I loathe strategic voting and would never presume to tell someone who they have to vote for, but it might be worth thinking about WFPs future position in relation to how much of a shitter Crowley is I'm beginning to wonder how useful they are to begin with so I'm probably gonna pass.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:40
|
|
|
Fair
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:41
|
|
|
Yeah if they are going to preemptively endorse Crowley and Cuomo does it really matter what they are doing other than allowing these sorts of shenanigans in the byzantine NY electoral system?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 00:52
|
|
|
In theory, fusion voting is cool and good. I liked that I could hold my nose in 2016 and vote for Abuela as WFP since the Democrats Locked me out of voting in the primaries. But yeah after this AOC/Crowley and Cuomo/Nixon bullshit I don't see the point anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 01:04
|
|
|
Matt Zerella posted:In theory, fusion voting is cool and good. I liked that I could hold my nose in 2016 and vote for Abuela as WFP since the Democrats Locked me out of voting in the primaries. funny thing about cuomo/nixon nixon apparently hates obeying the law, as she vacated the ballot line for the wfp after winning their nom. unlike crowley, she just didn't have the fortitude to protect the sanctity of our elections apparently 
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 01:10
|
|
|
The amount of establishment anger if she had tried what Crowley tried could’ve turned Jupiter into a star.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 01:11
|
|
|
Euphoriaphone posted:Crowley was never going to openly run against AOC after conceding. His goal in staying on the ballot is entirely about siphoning off votes from her to make her/her platform seem less legitimate. Everyone knows there will be a non-zero number of people who will vote for Crowley based on name recognition alone. In Crowley's wildest dreams, he'll siphon off enough votes from AOC not to get elected himself, but to tank her campaign and get the Republican elected. This is the same reason I've thought that it's particularly inexcusable. A non-negligible number of people are likely to see Crowley's name and just assume he's the Democratic nominee, just like usual (if he's on the ballot, that is). Being the incumbent (who has been around for a long time) actually makes him doing this worse than it would normally be.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 02:04
|
|
|
I think you guys are reading way too much guile into what Crowley did. The guy is lazy and maybe bitter, but he's not trying to derail a Dem takeover of the seat. AOC should not lose that race and if voters are so stupid that they'll ignore the party affiliation next to the candidate name (when most people don't even vote WFP and have to work their way down the ballot past the big 2 parties to see it), then the Dem machine would have leaned on Crowley to eat dirt and go on a self-destructing campaign trail like Nixon did. The margins aren't that fine and no one will care if Ocasio-Cortez doesn't win by some third world fraud level landslide. The GOP candidate running against her seems to be a bit of a Quixotic figure too. If she loses against this weirdo after getting Barack Obama's endorsement and a high national profile months in advance, then her campaign is flukier than we all think: https://www.wnyc.org/story/meet-republican-running-against-ocasio-cortez/
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 04:18
|
|
|
modern democrats are to the right of southern democrats before the turn of the 20th century. a good chart.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 07:20
|
|
|
Brony Car posted:I think you guys are reading way too much guile into what Crowley did. The guy is lazy and maybe bitter, but he's not trying to derail a Dem takeover of the seat. AOC should not lose that race and if voters are so stupid that they'll ignore the party affiliation next to the candidate name (when most people don't even vote WFP and have to work their way down the ballot past the big 2 parties to see it), then the Dem machine would have leaned on Crowley to eat dirt and go on a self-destructing campaign trail like Nixon did. The margins aren't that fine and no one will care if Ocasio-Cortez doesn't win by some third world fraud level landslide. if he's not trying to derail her candidacy, he can get off his lazy, bitter rear end and withdraw from the race. to do anything else is to threaten her election
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 08:56
|
|
|
Brony Car posted:I think you guys are reading way too much guile into what Crowley did. The guy is lazy and maybe bitter, but he's not trying to derail a Dem takeover of the seat. AOC should not lose that race and if voters are so stupid that they'll ignore the party affiliation next to the candidate name (when most people don't even vote WFP and have to work their way down the ballot past the big 2 parties to see it), then the Dem machine would have leaned on Crowley to eat dirt and go on a self-destructing campaign trail like Nixon did. The margins aren't that fine and no one will care if Ocasio-Cortez doesn't win by some third world fraud level landslide. Crowley and a small circle of his cronies are the machine, and they're taking measures to keep it that way: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/nyregion/queens-candidates-nominated-without-knowing.html https://nypost.com/2018/09/17/crowley-gets-a-consolation-prize-after-ocasio-cortez-defeat/
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 09:00
|
|
|
Condiv posted:if he's not trying to derail her candidacy, he can get off his lazy, bitter rear end and withdraw from the race. to do anything else is to threaten her election Okay. Thanks for the links, guys. But if she can't win despite being the only Democrat and the first name listed on the Congressional ballot for that district, then that machine is both impressive and in need of ousting by fire. If she was able to win the nomination against that machine, I'd like to think she's safe for at least 2 years.I'm just not expecting the WFP to get a ton of votes that would threaten the district but I guess these people are capable of pulling off that kind of underhanded move.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 13:55
|
|
|
In their wildest dreams, socialism is actually as unpopular as they want it to be and she loses, but even more realistically if he gets 10% on name recognition that's something they can use to say "oh even this blue as poo poo district got 65% instead of 75%, this is an argument against voting leftist in the primary for any district that's not at least D+11!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 14:09
|
|
|
Brony Car posted:Okay. Thanks for the links, guys. it doesn't matter that she should be able to win. the machine demands unending, unquestioning fealty from us voters. the very least party leadership like crowley et al can do is show the same dedication to the party that they demand from us. that snakes like crowley are willing to throw the party under the bus to stay on the ticket as a third party really spits in the face of all of us who are consistently, continually badgered to put aside our ideology and vote for centrists for the sake of the nation
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 14:35
|
|
|
Pretending to pass a tax cut two weeks before an election, and yelling Red Wave over and over actually loving worked, 
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 14:42
|
|
|
Republicans have one of the most effective propaganda machines in human history that's able to gasslight like 45% of the country at any given time. Liberal media types absolutely refuse to believe the power it has to shape public perception.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 15:30
|
|
|
Nothus posted:Republicans have one of the most effective propaganda machines in human history that's able to gasslight like 45% of the country at any given time. Liberal media types absolutely refuse to believe the power it has to shape public perception. I think it's more that the "liberal" media are too self-conscious to use their perception power in a coherent and helpful way. Most of them believe their own crap about being above the fray while still shaping the story coherently and, like too many other people, they're also pretty blind to their own flaws. They're also greedy and think they might lose viewers or readers due to a perception of overt liberal bias. And they also want ratings and eyeballs so they will shape coverage in a way that maximizes those metrics as opposed to some non-commercial desire to spout the truth. I don't know how you fight Fox News or Sinclair Media without overt censorship or just bad faith regulatory hurdles to make life as hard as possible for them. Maybe you ask young people to sneak into their parents' houses and turning on the V-chip blockers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 15:40
|
|
|
Brony Car posted:I think it's more that the "liberal" media are too self-conscious to use their perception power in a coherent and helpful way. Most of them believe their own crap about being above the fray while still shaping the story coherently and, like too many other people, they're also pretty blind to their own flaws. Yeah. While the right wing media is obviously a problem, the bigger issue is the traditional media that will never learn how to report on bad faith actors. People rightfully pointed out how the respectable media outlets were just regurgitating stuff from far right sources without any real fact checking during the last election which amplified the message and gave it undeserved legitimacy. Idiots at the WP, NYT, and NPC love to give voice to whatever right wing extremists they can find. We are pretty screwed as long as the gate keepers to public discourse are happy to give whatever white supremacist shows up a platform to spree lies. If they didn't learn this after 2016 they aren't going to now and frankly, as Wolfe said, they claim to hate Trump but really they love him. The New York Times will gladly assist Trump in whatever he wants.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 15:50
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Pretending to pass a tax cut two weeks before an election, and yelling Red Wave over and over actually loving worked,
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:04
|
|
|
Condiv posted:it doesn't matter that she should be able to win. Yeah exactly. This is the same defense for Republican voter suppression: "well you should still be able to win because no matter how many barriers we put up in bad faith, we're not mind-controlling voters or literally shooting them at the polls, you should just work harder rather than complaining that we're using our institutional advantages to tip the scales and subvert democracy"
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:16
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Yeah exactly. Stuff like this is why I'm suspicious when the national Democrats are mostly silent on GOP voter suppression. They don't want to get too loud about stuff that they want to use on their actually opponents on the left. If the GOP wins it's not a bad thing for Pelosi or Schumer as long as their individual seats are safe.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:20
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:im going to have a panic attack Don't forget grooming people with stories about filthy foreign hordes invading and raping Europe for years and then suddenly whipping the caravan into an existential crisis of invading terrorists two weeks out from the election.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:24
|
|
|
R. Dieovich posted:modern democrats are to the right of southern democrats before the turn of the 20th century. a good chart. according to that chart, the most liberal party in the history of the us was the southern democrats under woodrow wilson, so segregating the us civil service, suspending civil rights with the espionage act, prohibition = 0.5 liberalism units creating social security, the WPA, nationalizing parts of the defense industry = 0.1 liberalism units i'm pretty sure that any metric that claims clinton's democratic party was 3x as liberal as fdr's is trash.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:24
|
|
|
Anyone voting Republican because of this migrant caravan or whatever was going to do so anyway since Trump has been pushing the idea of the foreign hordes invading since day 0 with the complicity of the media. I think the bigger issue is national Democrats once again lacking any message other than PLEASE VOTE combined with massive voter disenfranchisement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:30
|
|
|
Here's an abstract of Poole and Rosenthal's ideology method. It seems like a bunch of horse poo poo. https://www.researchgate.net/public...oll_call_voting
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:37
|
|
|
Condiv posted:it doesn't matter that she should be able to win. the machine demands unending, unquestioning fealty from us voters. the very least party leadership like crowley et al can do is show the same dedication to the party that they demand from us. that snakes like crowley are willing to throw the party under the bus to stay on the ticket as a third party really spits in the face of all of us who are consistently, continually badgered to put aside our ideology and vote for centrists for the sake of the nation This is what I don't understand. I vote for the goddamned democrats, and I get labeled an idiot purity-tester just for criticizing dems. But then it's fine if dem politicians turn around and hurt the party for their own (potential, theoretical) personal gain??? How does that make sense?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
Radish posted:Anyone voting Republican because of this migrant caravan or whatever was going to do so anyway since Trump has been pushing the idea of the foreign hordes invading since day 0 with the complicity of the media. I think the bigger issue is national Democrats once again lacking any message other than PLEASE VOTE combined with massive voter disenfranchisement. Unfortunately the bunch of collaborators we have in the mainstream media have successfully made the threat of that Caravan into a very real psychological factor in this election. Having a massive and visible symbol of a threat is orders of magnitude more effective than verbally harping on the threat endlessly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:39
|
|
|
Verus posted:This is what I don't understand. I vote for the goddamned democrats, and I get labeled an idiot purity-tester just for criticizing dems. But then it's fine if dem politicians turn around and hurt the party for their own (potential, theoretical) personal gain??? How does that make sense? Yeah I've been complaining about this too since it's becoming more obvious. It rooted in the mentality that our leaders are nobility that are not subject to our rules and social norms. You voting third party or staying home is stealing one of their rightful votes but them supporting Republicans or subverting the process is just accepted as their right. Obama just laid it out very cleanly when he said voter indifference is the problem not the Republicans and rich doners. Prester Jane posted:Unfortunately the bunch of collaborators we have in the mainstream media have successfully made the threat of that Caravan into a very real psychological factor in this election. Having a massive and visible symbol of a threat is orders of magnitude more effective than verbally harping on the threat endlessly. Yeah this is true but it feels to me that right wingers are motivated by hate all the time were eventually going to come home for the midterms as they always do. I guess we'llnsee in a few days if there is a massive shift in polling but I figured this would always been about Democratic turnout out and not Republicana staying home. Frankly if the Democrats don't take the house after this mess of two years the leadership needs to be gutted like it should have been the day after 2016 election night. I know there is no accountability for any of our leaders but I'm saying "should." Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Oct 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:41
|
|
|
Radish posted:Stuff like this is why I'm suspicious when the national Democrats are mostly silent on GOP voter suppression. They don't want to get too loud about stuff that they want to use on their actually opponents on the left. If the GOP wins it's not a bad thing for Pelosi or Schumer as long as their individual seats are safe. Yeah that's basically why 100% of the fight comes from groups like the ACLU, and why the Democrats destroyed ACORN as soon as the GOP gave them cover to do it. They're more frightened of poor people voting than they are Republicans winning (most Democrats are in safe seats, and even the ones that aren't like Heitkamp, they can just vote for more bank deregulation and get a well-paid sinecure as a reward should they get voted out)
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 02:16 |
|
|
Verus posted:This is what I don't understand. I vote for the goddamned democrats, and I get labeled an idiot purity-tester just for criticizing dems. But then it's fine if dem politicians turn around and hurt the party for their own (potential, theoretical) personal gain??? How does that make sense? The real reason why libs start yelling about "purity testing" and vote blue no matter what and so on is that they want a party that stands for garbage centrism but also know that they have no actual arguments for why it is superior to actual good policy, and hence the only thing they can do is try to bullshit and browbeat people into supporting what they want. Since dem politicians are mostly garbage centrists there's no need to hold them to account since they already stand for what the libs want.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2018 16:55
|
|
