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Fulchrum posted:Its amazing how the all powerful Bernie who would have easily crushed Trump just couldn't manage to beat Hillary, even though you insist she can't beat anyone. Why, that almost makes it sound like he's lovely and would have done way worse. It must be because of that mean old media and that dastardly DNC that hated him sooooo much. Luckily, the media and election meddling would have simply evaporated if he had won. He handed his election to a republican when he won the election.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:23
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Sanders who is not even a Democrat!
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Oct 23, 2018 17:55
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Regarding AOC/Crowley, the important thing to understand is the Democratic establishment despises leftism/socialism, and would rather see a fascist in power than a leftist. Beyond what other posters said about Crowley's dishonesty about being able to vacate the ballot, remember after AOC won Pelosi ran to the media as fast as she could to denounce AOC's positions as being representative of the Democratic voter base as a whole. Can you name a single instance of when a party leader denounced the regressive views held by the more conservative Dems? Do you ever see Pelosi or Schumer repudiate Dems that are anti-choice/LGBT/women/labor/etc.? You can't just assume that the party leadership is well intentioned but just bad at politics (i.e. getting elected and wielding power). You have to assume they are out to strangle and leftward movement of the party in the crib.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:23
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Verus posted:This is what I don't understand. I vote for the goddamned democrats, and I get labeled an idiot purity-tester just for criticizing dems. But then it's fine if dem politicians turn around and hurt the party for their own (potential, theoretical) personal gain??? How does that make sense? Not defending this or giving it as my own viewpoint, but I think the idea is basically "two wrongs don't make a right"; Crowley (or whatever bad Dem, or the Democratic Party in general) might be an absolute fucker, but looking at you alone, by trying to punish them for their fuckery, like if Crowley actually sank Ocasio-Cortez somehow so you refused to vote for establishment Dems at all going forward, you make it more likely for a Republican to be elected instead. Republicans pretty much always have nastier, more malicious goals, and are therefore considerably worse, so by knowingly and deliberately doing something that makes a worse outcome more likely, you are committing a bad act yourself. Crowley or whoever may be an utter bastard, but when you vote you're just chosing between that bastard and the Republican; you can't undo the bad Dem's actions, that's all done, so you have to act solely based on what you can influence going forward and try to avert the significantly worse outcome. The problem is that, while in many cases this line of thinking generally makes sense, it gets applied to everything and for any act that "hurts" Democratic chances, no matter how little, by a lot of people, to utterly unreasonable extremes, like trying to shut down even mild critiques by people who can't actually vote for or against the person anyway. Also, this can be a very short-sighted way of looking at the problem; when the Democrat's agenda is maybe only "half" as bad as their opponent's, or they're actively fighting to preserve a status quo that causes millions to suffer but not deliberately speeding up the descent, they're still hurting a lot of people and making things worse, and if that keeps happening then you're still completely hosed if you aren't in a privileged position to weather the consequences. So unless that is averted, at best you're delaying bad things or avoiding worse ones, if that. Without an actual plan to change things this approach can pretty much be resigning yourself/the country/the world/whatever to a prolonged death spiral, whether or not you acknowledge its existence. Unfortunately, there aren't perfect responses to some of these situations; assuming you're actually considering the situation rather than just taking an absolute, unthinking stance like "vote for Literally Roy Moore as long as he happens to have a D next to his name", it's a matter of how likely you think different outcomes are, the scale and time span you're considering for the potential consequences, your personal values, and a lot of other things. It's pretty ugly no matter what. But, there are some assholes who dismiss people who don't agree with them entirely, i.e. It goes like most arguments online do, so... Yeah. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 18:26
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Fulchrum posted:Its amazing how the all powerful Bernie who would have easily crushed Trump just couldn't manage to beat Hillary, even though you insist she can't beat anyone. Why, that almost makes it sound like he's lovely and would have done way worse. How do you not understand that the Dem primaries and the general election are extremely different from each other? If I encounter a bull shark washed up on shore I can absolutely murder it with impunity, but in the water it would chomp me to pieces, yet your logic is like "oh well if you're saying that you can't beat the bull shark in the water then how can you do it on land, seems like you're a weak piece of poo poo that would get eaten there too?" No because a completely different set of factors are at play, despite the fact that both situations are me vs. a shark. Clinton benefited from literally 20 years of institutional runway clearing and huge amounts of name recognition and the higher turnout of the neolib boomer olds at the outset of the primary campaign, and it still barely saved her. Once she got the general and the boomer olds primarily turn out for the Republicans and the Midwest remembered that they hate her guts for NAFTA and the country in general hated the status quo candidate, she got creamed. Completely different circumstances, because she ran a strategy that was suited to win the Dem primary but not to win the general election. Very easy to understand.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:26
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https://twitter.com/senschumer/status/1054782798459006977?s=21
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Oct 23, 2018 18:42
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Democrat campaigning really falls apart during the time period people are actually voting.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:42
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 Also was it in this thread or in USPOL main that someone posted that blog post breaking down the Ellison accusations? I can't find it now. 
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Oct 23, 2018 18:44
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cuck boomer
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Oct 23, 2018 18:45
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Good that Chuck's here to draw an equivalence between breaking a window and an attempted bombing
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Oct 23, 2018 18:47
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How the gently caress are people like Schumer still loving both sides-ing their own goddamn side?
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Oct 23, 2018 18:50
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Can we give that dumb goddamn :nothingmatters: smiley the  treatment.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:50
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That Republican family that lives in Chucks head have clearly take over his body
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Oct 23, 2018 18:55
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:How do you not understand that the Dem primaries and the general election are extremely different from each other? If I encounter a bull shark washed up on shore I can absolutely murder it with impunity, but in the water it would chomp me to pieces, yet your logic is like "oh well if you're saying that you can't beat the bull shark in the water then how can you do it on land, seems like you're a weak piece of poo poo that would get eaten there too?" No because a completely different set of factors are at play, despite the fact that both situations are me vs. a shark. Bernie also had quite a lot of crossover appeal with a certain breed of Republican while Hillary was almost universally loathed on the right thanks to 30 years of propaganda. It’s a detail often forgotten by many liberals despite their many cries for candidates that Republicans will vote for.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:58
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The worst part of that Schumer quote is that the Republican just got a smashed window and not a bomb sent to his mailbox. So the Democratic leader is specifically buying into right wing messaging to make his own side look violent. He's absolutely a mole. There's no other explanation at this point that he wants the Republicans to win.
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Oct 23, 2018 19:11
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God forbid the leader of a loving political party act loving partisan, like politics is a goddamn contest over resources with people's lives on the line. loving Chuck Schumer you piece of poo poo.
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Oct 23, 2018 19:11
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Jesus  https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1054564215825072128?s=20
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Oct 23, 2018 19:11
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Radish posted:The worst part of that Schumer quote is that the Republican just got a smashed window and not a bomb sent to his mailbox. So the Democratic leader is specifically buying into right wing messaging to make his own side look violent. https://twitter.com/shaun_jen/status/1054791450729308161
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Oct 23, 2018 19:15
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Getting rid of Schumer is second only in importance to getting rid of Trump. He is an absolute disaster. At least every reply to that tweet is telling him to go gently caress himself.
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Oct 23, 2018 19:20
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I hate Schumer so loving much.
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Oct 23, 2018 19:27
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Good that Chuck's here to draw an equivalence between breaking a window and an attempted bombing It's what the Baileys would do
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Oct 23, 2018 19:38
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Roland Jones posted:Not defending this or giving it as my own viewpoint, but I think the idea is basically "two wrongs don't make a right"; it can't possibly be that. centrists have unbelievable trouble admitting that crowley's done anything wrong at all. and even when they do admit that what he's done is bad, they use words like "lazy" and "spiteful", minimizing the destructiveness of his behavior gently caress you chuck schumer
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Oct 23, 2018 20:02
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How can anyone have pride in calling themselves a Democrat with Schumer as the head constantly stumbling into rakes and selling out allies? The fact that they might win the house in spite of the leadership self owning themselves all month and doing little else shows how desperate the public is for anyone to resist fashism. It's a glowing endorsement of the public in contrast to a political class that is worse than useless.
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Oct 23, 2018 20:05
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Radish posted:How can anyone have pride in calling themselves a Democrat with Schumer as the head constantly stumbling into rakes and selling out allies? The fact that they might win the house in spite of the leadership self owning themselves all month and doing little else shows how desperate the public is for anyone to resist fashism. It's a glowing endorsement of the public in contrast to a political class that is worse than useless. The Clintons have been stumbling into rakes for 30 years and Dems blame republican propaganda for why they are disliked. There is no penetrating the bubble.
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Oct 23, 2018 20:33
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FuriousxGeorge posted:The Clintons have been stumbling into rakes for 30 years and Dems blame republican propaganda for why they are disliked. There is no penetrating the bubble.
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Oct 23, 2018 20:43
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Rent-A-Cop posted:To be fair Bill doesn't stumble into rakes. He just can't walk by a rake without trying to gently caress it. i sure do love my triangulating sex monster president. nothing fundamentally wrong with a party that pretends he's a good guy
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Oct 23, 2018 20:44
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https://mobile.twitter.com/RalphNader/status/1054472504356548608 he's running
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Oct 23, 2018 21:26
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didn't he just endorse bloomberg
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Oct 23, 2018 21:26
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Bloomberg’s sensible centrist solution is 12.12
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Oct 23, 2018 21:29
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Main Paineframe posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/RalphNader/status/1054472504356548608 Nader does a local public radio show out of Fort Collins that I catch some mornings, the guys got some good positions. I don't think he would be able to compete in 2020 on a third party ticket, and he won't run as a democrat i am pretty sure. A smart leftist candidate could use him on their side.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:35
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This is how every dem should be campaigning: https://twitter.com/HootHootBerns/status/1054691364053573632
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Oct 23, 2018 21:44
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Here's an abstract of Poole and Rosenthal's ideology method. It seems like a bunch of horse poo poo. It's not horseshit. It's just not about what that moron is trying to argue. It measures ideology not in the sense of "are you in favor of M4A or of letting insurance companies sell your body parts to pay your bill" ideology. It's in the sense of where members of congress stand in relation to the "tipping point" votes in a statistical space. That is, if something never comes up for a vote, that measure wouldn't capture the ideological diversity of opinion. So that measure can capture the fact that fewer democrats are voting with republicans on vote that come up, but can't tell apart a Sanders from a Chuck Schumer.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:48
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The Kingfish posted:This is how every dem should be campaigning: But...  
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Oct 23, 2018 21:51
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Condiv posted:it can't possibly be that. centrists have unbelievable trouble admitting that crowley's done anything wrong at all. and even when they do admit that what he's done is bad, they use words like "lazy" and "spiteful", minimizing the destructiveness of his behavior Well, I was thinking more of "(almost) always vote for the Dems" people here and in other places, at least those who aren't posting in bad faith or just completely uncritical, and who can acknowledge at least some issues. Centrists are ignorant/uninformed, intellectually dishonest, lying, or extremely stupid. Possibly more than one. You can get rid of that stuff and the idea still holds, though. Arguably better, even; someone who sees no fault in the Dems would see the choice as one between bad and good, rather than bad and somewhat less bad, hence their derision and scorn. quote:gently caress you chuck schumer Seconded.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:54
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The Kingfish posted:This is how every dem should be campaigning: BERNIEE
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Oct 23, 2018 21:58
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The Kingfish posted:This is how every dem should be campaigning: gonna need me some balm cuz i am feelin the bern.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:58
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Notice how Bernie actually cares about what is happening? See how he displays emotion like a human being? WHy is it so tough for democrats to adopt a tone that isn't "sympathetic banker just doing their job by foreclosing on your home."
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Oct 23, 2018 22:08
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because they don't care it's just a job. they're like players on a team.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:09
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They plainly could not give less of a poo poo about anyone but themselves and their donor buddies.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:10
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Because Bernie is NOT A DEMOCRAT
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Oct 23, 2018 22:14
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