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Im going to be running an Eberron campaign, and I’ve gotten the idea of using legacy-type/artifact weapons, that would level with the players. Seeing as one of my players is going to be playing a Sword n’ board dragonborn paladin, I’ve come up with the following weapon.  Thoughts on the concept of artifact weapons?
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Oct 24, 2018 08:31
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Hey that's pretty neat. Honestly, I like the idea a lot - it makes for a better story than trading in your trusty sword every time you find a newer and shinier stabbing stick. I also like that it makes your weapon intrinsic to your character progression - feels more well-earned than just dumping a sack of coins on the counter and buying new toys. Anything that makes a good story and cuts down on gamey transactions is pretty good in my book, I think.
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Oct 24, 2018 08:40
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koreban posted:Thanks for that. I suspect based on interviews I’ve watched from Mearls and Crawford that they were trying to change the math in ways that simplified the encounter design table from 3.5 and overtuned it to the point where ID type creatures were poorly representative of the CR they were given. but it's not simpler at all! if you look at 3e's encounter building rules, making an "average" encounter for four PCs of level x corresponds to either one monster of CR x (with caveats as to how well this actually worked), or four monsters of CR [x-4], with fudging around the edges for the first four levels. if you look at 5e's encounter building rules, trying to apply this same method ends up massively overshooting the encounter budgets, so you actually have to go back and re-run the numbers for what constitutes a "Medium" difficulty encounter for every single level, and this was enough of a problem that they had to completely re-do the encounter building rules in Xanathar's, and those tables end up revealing that CR has completely decoupled in its relationship between players and levels!
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Oct 24, 2018 08:41
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lightrook posted:Hey that's pretty neat. Thanks! I’m making individual weapons for all my players. So far i’ve got The Daggers of the First Murder for our goblin rogue, The Songbow for our lore bard, and a scythe that prevents resurrection or undeath for our hexblade chainpact warlock. Still missing a neat concept for our ranger, other than “bow but better”. So far only Carsomyr is intelligent.
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Oct 24, 2018 08:48
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Bogan Krkic posted:Maybe it turns out everyone in this thread is a bad poster. College of Blades bard is a bard, so garaunteed winner there, but you'll have to choose between pumping dex for punching and cha for barding. You could go one level of warlock for hexblade and then go all in on bard, but again, magic haunted sword. Bladesinger exists. If you just want to be someone who punches people using magic rather than a magical person who punches people, arcane trickster + scag cantrips + owlvantage is pretty dang dingly decent. Splicer fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 08:50
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Bogan Krkic posted:Turns out I was getting Hexblade and Pact of the Blade confused and it's Hexblade that's the weird haunted sword option. Eldritch smite looks sick as hell but I think narratively I like the idea of just hitting people harder than I should be able to with my staff and all the extra cantrips that come with the Tome better Section Z posted:"Ancient caveman magic" is a concept that amuses me greatly for some reason. I mean if you're down to slightly re-flavor its not like Hexblade actually has much mechanically that ties you to being empowered by a weird extra-dimensional magic weapon - you're a warlock that can fight well and curse people (with some very minor ghost flavor that's easy to interpret as just "even better at cursing"), being empowered by ancestral/caveman spirits who approve of your penchant for clubbing things fits at least as well
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Oct 24, 2018 08:51
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I suppose you could always do Eldritch Knight.
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Oct 24, 2018 08:52
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DJ Dizzy posted:Thanks! The ranger's bow should be a hunter's bow, and a hunter should always catch their quarry. So maybe something that makes successive hits progressively more lethal, like granting advantage or dealing extra damage against damaged enemies? Or maybe you can curve the arrow and ignore some or all cover? Additionally, the nice thing about making a generic ranger-themed bow is drawing upon all the examples of generic Cool Ranger poo poo from fantasy, like double-nocking arrows or throwing out massive AoE volleys.
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Oct 24, 2018 09:00
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DJ Dizzy posted:Thanks! Splicer fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 09:07
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alternately maybe think about where it came from, using one of the planes (or a divinity) as inspiration - i.e. a fae-made bow from Thelanis that transforms arrows into beams of moonlight (can add fae-related powers, teleportation, time, curses, etc.), or a sun-touched from Irian that burns and blinds all it strikes down (positive energy effects like healing, sun related powers), or a bow of dreams from Dal Quor that strikes at the mind (psychic damage, enchantment, illusions, maybe time-related powers, general weirdness like the bow looking different to all who view it or fading from memory immediately) even "hunter's bow" could be interesting- who was the hunter and what did he hunt? maybe you gain different totemic powers as you level? (damage obviously, but also maybe things like bleeding, knockback, far vision, animal speech, flight, stuff based on druid spells like Find The Path) or it is crafted from/influenced by a certain kind of mythical beast? dragons are (perhaps far too) obvious, but look at the monster manual - maybe its a hydra? extra damage, aoe/multi-attack and being indestructible are about as generic as "better magic ranger bow" gets, but if you make that damage acid (caustic hydra blood), the indestructibility instant regeneration from any harm, and the aoe/multi-attack a proliferation of phantom snake heads it should feel flavorful LGD fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 09:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:but it's not simpler at all! I take your point. I haven’t spent time with 3e’s encounter building system, so my response was based on first glance at the table you posted and it wasn’t intuitive, at all. I don’t use 5e’s encounter building system as written, the songoftheblade encounter builder, alongside giffglyphs monster maker for quick build encounters takes care of what I need. Sometimes I just pull the minis that look cool from my friend’s shelf and scale the creature to the proper hp/ac/abilities because minis.
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Oct 24, 2018 09:36
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Section Z posted:"Ancient caveman magic" is a concept that amuses me greatly for some reason. I love the idea of an orc who can only cast spells to do things they already know how to do anyway, but now slightly better. All the natural magic talent in the world somehow, but no imagination. Charm Person is just them smiling extra nice, Catapult is them throwing extra hard, Insect Plague is just throwing bugs at people real hard
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Oct 24, 2018 09:37
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koreban posted:I take your point. You remember gradenko is the one that does all the Song of the Blade stuff right?
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Oct 24, 2018 09:54
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DJ Dizzy posted:
Definitely do this. I’ve been doing something similar and it’s fantastic. The only thing I do different is that each power up will come as a result of either a small personal quest, vanquishing a powerful enemy, service to a powerful entity or person, etc. I don’t pre-plan the upgrade. I have an idea beforehand about where I want the +1/+2/+3 to be, and between that I want to allow for the actions of the person to reflect the bonus. The 3e Book of the Nine Swords is really good for ideas of bonus progression for weapons. (Also for martial maneuvers inspiration) Example: spoilered because it’s long and some people may not give a poo poo about an epic weapon quest detail my paladin player at level 1 met a raised undead hero who was brought back by a wayward young wizard toying with necromantic magics. The paladin ran down the wizard, brought him to justice, got taught about how to be a paladin (level 2), and was set out to find the person who corrupted the young wizard and taught him necromancy. Around level 4 the paladin returned to the undead hero with evidence that he dispatched the necromantic cult leader. The hero told the paladin that he’s taught him all he can, and that he wants to return to being dead. The hero worshipped the god of war in life, so he couldn’t surrender to death willingly, he had to earn his death, even the second time. The paladin had to fight the hero, defeat him, and take his sword, which was a named blade. The sword started at +1. Around level 6 the paladin had sanctified a temple of the sun god that had fallen to devotees of the night god. His sword got sun blessed for an additional d4 radiant damage on all hits and got the benefits of a moon-touched weapon (it casts light when drawn). He’s a dual wield paladin and he doesn’t know it yet but his next challenge will come soon when a champion of the night god comes to duel him and will shatter his longsword with the Axe of the Moonless Night. He will have to do a short quest to recover a blessed temper and a sunshard hammer for the smithy that will work his blade back to shape. The shards will be reforged into two shortswords and when blessed will serve as +1 moontouched/sun blessed swords. When he defeats the champion of the night and dedicates his victory to the sun god’s glory he will receive a +2 blessing on his swords (around level 8 or 9)
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Oct 24, 2018 09:57
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Arthil posted:You remember gradenko is the one that does all the Song of the Blade stuff right? Yes.
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Oct 24, 2018 09:58
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Bogan Krkic posted:I love the idea of an orc who can only cast spells to do things they already know how to do anyway, but now slightly better. All the natural magic talent in the world somehow, but no imagination. "What do you mean it's takes effort to get food and water? Next you'll tell me you need to look at the sky to know what direction is North. When is the last time any of us didn't know what direction was north in a Dungeon, huh?" One would expect it would be influence of their MIA dead beat mom implied to be an orc Druid. But his dad was just a really, REALLY good lumberjack before that bear ate him. (Throwing bees at people never gets old as a concept, so chase that dream)
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Oct 24, 2018 10:06
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dreadmojo posted:the quasi-elemental plane of bakers yeast  I kind of like the idea that almost anything has some primal elemental metaphysical proto spirit counterpart underlying its existence. Goes along with the old "Cat Lord" and all that. Beware the potato elemental. All fear the chipmunk lord.
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Oct 24, 2018 10:21
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Bogan Krkic posted:I love the idea of an orc who can only cast spells to do things they already know how to do anyway, but now slightly better. All the natural magic talent in the world somehow, but no imagination. gently caress yes. But for all magic. It takes about as much effort to learn to do something by magic as it does without magic. A few things can't be done by magic. A few things can't be done without it. But for most stuff, it's more of a personal style thing. Like, it's no easier ot quicker to clean the house with magic spells than without. It's no harder to learn to longbow 6 different dudes in 2 seconds than it is to learn to shoot targeted lightning at them. Picture a massive barbarian casting a levitation spell by doing an invisible (but obviously strenuous) deadlift next to a floating boulder. Picture a pencil necked geek in a wizard hat, out of breath sweaty as their floating sword of mist and shadows duels a panting fop with a regular rapier. Two wiry ladies race up a sheer cliff. One has turned her arms into spider legs. The other grasps seemingly impossibly tiny handholds. A large bald man steps into a river, puts his head underwater and yells "Oi! Are you gonna let us fuckin' walk across or are we gonna have a fuckin' problem?" The spirits know they can't beat him. The water parts and the man and his friends swagger across. There's a bridge, like, right there. A skinny girl with a too-tall mage staff planted in the ground stands stock still, staring straight ahead, sweat beading on her forehead as her invisible kicks and punches rain down on her opponents, who are surprised as their own blows are parried every time. When the last of them falls, she finally moves, slumping against the staff as bruises appear on her knuckles and forearms. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 10:28
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koreban posted:I don’t use 5e’s encounter building system as written, the songoftheblade encounter builder, alongside giffglyphs monster maker for quick build encounters takes care of what I need. Sometimes I just pull the minis that look cool from my friend’s shelf and scale the creature to the proper hp/ac/abilities because minis. Come on buddy, I just spent a hour catching up on this back and forth and the reveal that actually the 5e encounter system is bad and you don't even use it is too much for me to handle. I mean I can't believe this is happening but you if people like you came out and said 'yeah you're right that is busted! Here's how I tried to fix it for my game', there wouldn't be this constant back and forth. Yeah some people will still shitpost but goddamn if you go into it agreeing with the person's premise to begin with the arguing becomes about shooting out ideas to make it better. You understand that little twist in language and approach right and how important that is? I assume you're just trying to backpedal at this point because people have done a good job at breaking down and explaining why the encounter building system is busted and why the math is a mess and a list of issues 5e has but just incase i'll explain why they are explaining and saying these things are busted. They need to identify something is busted in order to fix it and identify the intended outcomes out and methodology of the fix. If you pretend everything is fine and don't make any good faith arguments about why things might not be working you end up with the 5e CR system. kingcom fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 11:17
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DJ Dizzy posted:Thanks!
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Oct 24, 2018 13:50
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DJ Dizzy posted:I’m making individual weapons for all my players. So far i’ve got The Daggers of the First Murder for our goblin rogue, The Songbow for our lore bard, and a scythe that prevents resurrection or undeath for our hexblade chainpact warlock. Still missing a neat concept for our ranger, other than “bow but better”. Should note that one of the hexblade's features is about raising people into undeath (level 6 ability that lets them turn humanoids they kill into specters), so there's a little bit of tension there between the weapon and the class.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:23
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Nihilarian posted:is the ranger named Hank Dunno. Probably not. Valentin posted:Should note that one of the hexblade's features is about raising people into undeath (level 6 ability that lets them turn humanoids they kill into specters), so there's a little bit of tension there between the weapon and the class. Ah. Good point.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:07
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Instead of replacing your weapon DMs should have you come across a smith/wizard/other source of power to upgrade them as either a reward or happenstance mid adventure. That way you get to wax nostalgic about when your +5 God Slayer sword was just a regular family heirloom/gift from a military superior/whatever origin you want to say. This also applies to armor.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:22
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ChaseSP posted:Instead of replacing your weapon DMs should have you come across a smith/wizard/other source of power to upgrade them as either a reward or happenstance mid adventure. That way you get to wax nostalgic about when your +5 God Slayer sword was just a regular family heirloom/gift from a military superior/whatever origin you want to say. a magic weapon of the month club with ever more expensive tiers to get a roll off better tables
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Oct 24, 2018 15:37
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kingcom posted:Come on buddy, I just spent a hour catching up on this back and forth and the reveal that actually the 5e encounter system is bad and you don't even use it is too much for me to handle. I get what you’re saying, but I tried to be very clear in my arguments that I was critical of 5e where it was deserved but I felt that some of the points being made were disingenuous or pedantic. I’m not a complete 5e apologist. I think it does some things well, (or well enough), and the encounter stuff didn’t come up during the discussion until the end. I did mention many times that I change the things that don’t work without issue and that I didn’t feel like it broke the core underlying 5e D&D-ness when I did it.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:41
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ChaseSP posted:Instead of replacing your weapon DMs should have you come across a smith/wizard/other source of power to upgrade them as either a reward or happenstance mid adventure. That way you get to wax nostalgic about when your +5 God Slayer sword was just a regular family heirloom/gift from a military superior/whatever origin you want to say.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:03
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Here is a hot take on werewolves: Resistances and immunities only matter if there's a chance they might come into play. If it's "guaranteed" that players will be able to bypass the special defenses of everything they face because of basic milestones, then they might as well not even exist. And just like there are monsters that punish melee martials, there should be monsters that punish ranger characters and casters, which is really the design problem worth whining about. From a gameplay fairness perspective where all the players have equal opportunity to contribute, yeah, it sucks. If you punish your fighter that way all the time, then you suck as a DM, but it's no more punishing than only the Cleric having healing, only the Rogue being able to disarm traps, or having only the Cha-face do diplomacy.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:17
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Arthil posted:Hey, I take offense to that. My Monk is good. Monk is quite good for a few levels, but aside from Long Death their class progression basically ends at level 7.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:29
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Infinite Karma posted:Here is a hot take on werewolves: "Looks like you entitled players want things handed to you on a.... SILVER platter  "Which screws over the ranged martials too. Though I'm used to the "Ranged should be screwed too-" argument being the opposite "If you don't want to get blown up, you should disengage and try to finish them off with a javelin smart guy" hot takes. But no, surely we must think of a way to punish those pesky ranged weapon users to get an even spread of martial uselessness  Anything that screws over a "ranged" will generally be bypassed by casters switching to Vs saves while the weapon users give a heavy sigh. Or more common, even well meaning GMs trying to claim that a fighter having to walk up and punch a fire giant means the sunlight cleric is at a disadvantage compared to you "Because fireballs won't work! You're super useful... oh... Well, you have 1/3 your health left. Think of the poor ranged characters" Section Z fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 17:30
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Section Z posted:They are guaranteed if they are a spellcaster though, that's part of the joke. If you consider only physical damage resistances as the "punishment" lever, then yeah. Guys who use LOS-blocking cover, for example, hurt ranged characters and casters who have to get in close to make their attacks, but don't affect melee characters nearly as much. Enemies who have strong ranged attacks and weak melee are another example - if you get in their face, they have to switch to melee or take disadvantage and miss, but they can still blast the ranged characters who don't close in. Encounter/monster design doesn't do much for fixing spellcaster superiority, but it's not that hard to design encounters that let the Fighter shine 40% more and the Wizard groan 40% more, without being hamfisted and making some characters bystanders.
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Oct 24, 2018 19:03
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Infinite Karma posted:If you consider only physical damage resistances as the "punishment" lever, then yeah. Guys who use LOS-blocking cover, for example, hurt ranged characters and casters who have to get in close to make their attacks, but don't affect melee characters nearly as much. Enemies who have strong ranged attacks and weak melee are another example - if you get in their face, they have to switch to melee or take disadvantage and miss, but they can still blast the ranged characters who don't close in. You say that but, a properly built ranged fighter has absolutely no issues getting into melee range to fight, and fireball along with most AoEs work around corners. You'll find most wizards are just fine with encounter design that involves them not getting shot at.
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Oct 24, 2018 19:12
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DJ Dizzy posted:Thanks! A slingstaff that launches a seemingly mundane pair of armadillos that get really attached to the Ranger and always come back unharmed after being thrown. As the campaign goes on the armadillos get iron hides, electric sparks, etc.
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Oct 24, 2018 19:12
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Infinite Karma posted:If you consider only physical damage resistances as the "punishment" lever, then yeah. Guys who use LOS-blocking cover, for example, hurt ranged characters and casters who have to get in close to make their attacks, but don't affect melee characters nearly as much. Enemies who have strong ranged attacks and weak melee are another example - if you get in their face, they have to switch to melee or take disadvantage and miss, but they can still blast the ranged characters who don't close in. But most of all? "If I screw over ranged players, that mean melee players have it better" doesn't actually improve things for melee. "You have to essentially fight this enemy solo, we're doing you such a favor!" "uh..." Screwing something over and then claiming it's a buff for something you did nothing but refrain from nerfing a design mentality that just bothers me in general, to be fair. The mentality behind it more than the actual mechanics, as much as anything. ESPECIALLY in Solo/co-op games. "Still under performing against enemies here" "Nuh uh! We nerfed someone else! The gap in DPS shrunk, you're better now!" "That's not how that works!" Section Z fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 19:18
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For a potential one-shot session I'm thinking of doing a Monk as a change of pace from the Druid I play in our ongoing session. The idea of a Kensei monk who uses a bow primarily seems like a rad idea to me (especially if I can sell the DM on letting me use the bow for Agile Parry. I mean, if Stephen Amell can do it) but how disappointing am I likely to find this in practice? We've been told to make level 6 characters, so magic weapons and Deft Strike will have unlocked. e: I know the answer is just 'make a Bard' but humour me
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Oct 24, 2018 19:44
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evenworse username posted:For a potential one-shot session I'm thinking of doing a Monk as a change of pace from the Druid I play in our ongoing session. The idea of a Kensei monk who uses a bow primarily seems like a rad idea to me (especially if I can sell the DM on letting me use the bow for Agile Parry. I mean, if Stephen Amell can do it) but how disappointing am I likely to find this in practice? vhuman monk with a hand crossbow and the crossbow expert feat to shoot people and then punch them also only say 'woah' and 'i know kung fu'
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Oct 24, 2018 19:59
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evenworse username posted:For a potential one-shot session I'm thinking of doing a Monk as a change of pace from the Druid I play in our ongoing session. The idea of a Kensei monk who uses a bow primarily seems like a rad idea to me (especially if I can sell the DM on letting me use the bow for Agile Parry. I mean, if Stephen Amell can do it) but how disappointing am I likely to find this in practice? Agile Parry already functions normally while holding a bow if it's a kensei weapon, no houseruling required. Ranged combat for Monk is supplementary but doesn't really work all that well as the main tactic. Your ability list: - Unarmored movement. Neat, but pointless since you aren't closing in. - Flurry of Blows. Can't use. - Patient Defense. Yes, but you're ranged, and it eats your Kensei Shot. - Step of the Wind. If you get caught in melee, but it also eats your Kensei Shot. - Deflect Missiles. - Kensei Shot. Offense booster. - Slow Fall. Sometimes it comes up? - Stunning Strike. Strongest Monk ability. Can't use from range. - Magic weapon. Good if it comes up. - Deft Strike. Terrible use of Ki. Basically, you only get 2~3 abilities that other ranged martials don't quite have equivalents of, and they compete for your offense booster. Compare Fighter and Ranger who both get Archery Fighting Style which is a better (and passive!) offense booster than Kensei Shot, Action Surge and Hunter's Mark and archetype abilities on top of that even, and also have better HP, and ways to get extra speed if they want to. And then there's Rogue with their Cunning Action and Uncanny Dodge, who are both more mobile and will outdamage a ranged Monk from constantly getting advantage through BA Hide or owl shenanigans in the case of Arcane Trickster, without needing to specialize in any way. In conclusion, it's not terrible, but if you're not really intending on using the monk kit, what's even the point of playing the class? mormonpartyboat posted:vhuman monk with a hand crossbow and the crossbow expert feat to shoot people and then punch them Now, this is using the Monk kit properly. Take notes.
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Oct 24, 2018 20:19
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DJ Dizzy posted:Still missing a neat concept for our ranger, other than “bow but better”. Bow & quiver or crossbow from the Mournland decorated with markings from Cyre that's just slightly see through always has more ghostly ammo covered in blood. Not explicitly intelligent, but just really, really, really loves revenge. Cold, distant, arrow through the eye revenge.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:12
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DJ Dizzy posted:Dunno. Probably not. I dunno, I think it still works. You mark their soul so severely with the scythe, that they can't even be claimed by other necromancers. Only you can release their soul from the blade to fight on your behalf. Just make sure to bake that exception in there.
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Oct 25, 2018 00:48
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So I just got Xanathar's guide today and have been reading some of the warlock options and I have what is probably a very stupid question. So the Hexblade is a pact that has sworn itself to a magic shadow weapon, but there don't seem to be any rules or stats for the magic shadow weapon if you actually use it as your main weapon. I'm guessing that it just kind of ends up being your pact weapon if you go pact of the blade but until you get to level three it seems kind of weird to have a magic sword that you are apparently not using. Am I missing something here?
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Oct 25, 2018 01:33
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AnEdgelord posted:So I just got Xanathar's guide today and have been reading some of the warlock options and I have what is probably a very stupid question. Yeah, the fluff is a bit weird. I chose to ignore the magic sword part and focus on the Raven Queen / Shadowfell aspect for mine.
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Oct 25, 2018 01:36
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