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slippery doc posted:This is so much better after a quick google showing that global carbon emissions were 36Gt in the year of 2015. the math involved is so dumb. "yes, with basic stoichiometry and a little bit of multiplication we can solve the hardest puzzle the world has ever encountered"
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Oct 24, 2018 06:55
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Oxxidation posted:pretty sure i read before that the carbon cost of building nuclear plants would make their implementation a too-little too-late scenario, even if the united states was capable of building anything new other than weapons and perpetually empty "luxury" condominiums The carbon cost of changing the US's infrastructure to be more friendly to not taking a car everywhere is going to be massive by concrete alone. Any transition to carbon free is going to mean a whole lot more short term emissions. Show me a better alternative. And don't give up because rich people only are interested in treating housing like trading cards. That'll change, or we'll change them.
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Oct 24, 2018 11:11
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Oxxidation posted:pretty sure i read before that the carbon cost of building nuclear plants would make their implementation a too-little too-late scenario, even if the united states was capable of building anything new other than weapons and perpetually empty "luxury" condominiums Any major industrial scale change to power production is going to produce lots of CO2. Renewable production would also be hugely polluting scaled to national need.
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Oct 24, 2018 12:26
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ChairMaster posted:This is a fantasy, science is not coming to save us from climate change in time for it to prevent the first sentence of your post. There's no question that fascism is going to be rampant and widespread when poo poo starts going bad, even the comparatively tiny amount of hardship we see now has it popping up all over the place. You have no idea what's going to happen.
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Oct 24, 2018 12:28
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StabbinHobo posted:this owns. Thank you! It was a half-year-long lobbying campaign, I think the clincher was that I came at him with facts and figures. We already have the VPN infrastructure because we allow WFH when you are sick or need to wait for a repairman. I cited exactly what it would cost, studies that show that productivity increases with policies like this, I sprinkled in climate change stuff and also how it is good press for the company to have a policy like this, and a bunch of other things. I am not even an executive, just a software developer who wants some changes made lol. We are actually piloting two days work from home instead of one with further options like FT Remote! We are owned by Accenture which is an ENORMOUS company and I asked him point blank if this initiative showed results would he consider lobbying for it himself to our parent company and I got a resounding yes in writing. For perspective on the scope of this, Accenture has 400K employees. That would be HUGE if we could get a WFH policy in place for even just 1 day. Either way, it goes to show that EVERY SINGLE one of us can make a big difference. I am just a 28-year-old software developer and went in there with flowcharts, a powerpoint, and passion. You just have to take initiative and not go quietly into the night. We can mitigate the world-ending effects of climate change if we all get up off our asses and start pitching in instead of waiting for someone to do something. The Labor Movement and Civil Rights didnt happen because people sat in front of their computer screens and went "Aw shucks, I sure hope Governments and Corporations will do something about this, welp, guess there is nothing I can do." People got angry, they got passionate, and they went out and changed things.
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Oct 24, 2018 13:08
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The house might be burning down, but if we all piss ourselves in fear it might buy us precious seconds for survival! What do you mean stop the guy thats going room to room soaking things down with petrol? We are all in this together! Personal responsibility!
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Oct 24, 2018 13:24
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friendbot2000 posted:Thank you! It was a half-year-long lobbying campaign, I think the clincher was that I came at him with facts and figures. We already have the VPN infrastructure because we allow WFH when you are sick or need to wait for a repairman. I cited exactly what it would cost, studies that show that productivity increases with policies like this, I sprinkled in climate change stuff and also how it is good press for the company to have a policy like this, and a bunch of other things. I am not even an executive, just a software developer who wants some changes made lol. We are actually piloting two days work from home instead of one with further options like FT Remote! This owns, you are a cool dude/lady.
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Oct 24, 2018 13:45
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The Dipshit posted:And Yeah, I'm fine with the waste in my backyard, or ideally Yucca mountain, since I used to work at the US's strategic reserve of nuclear materials. I'm used to being around all the weapons grade stuff for my job, and I'm fine. I know the whole "radiation!!" thing is part and parcel of creating an aversion to using nuclear weapons, but I can hope that at least on D&D a person can do a simple, sober analysis of it all. >80% of posters here, myself included, would happily press a "Just Build Nuclear!" button were one available. However there is also acceptance that we're unlikely to see a nuclear renaissance in the near future due to a combination of public sentiment and the capital costs of building new plants. It's stupid and counter-productive, but public support for nuclear power is declining:  IMO David Roberts on Vox writes a lot of good stuff about climate change. He summarizes some of the more technical hurdles facing the American nuclear power industry based on this PNAS article (maybe you're aware of these issues already?): At the same time support for renewable-only energy is huge:  I blame 30 years of Captain Planet-esque media for getting the segment of the public that actually cares about the environment to simultaneously reject nuclear and support renewable-only generation while transitioning from fossil fuels. However there's no denying this view is rampant, even our one true hope Bernie thinks this way. There have been several good posts even just itt about how the nuclear industry is a semi-corrupt rent-seeking mess that would probably have to be rebuilt to actually deliver the required nuclear capacity. There is also the issue of capital costs making nuclear uncompetitive with other forms of generation, and possibly even more expensive than natural gas + CCS (!). Dealing with all this would almost certainly require nationalization of the entire nuclear industry, a problem as the world in general and US especially is moving politically in the opposite direction from building that kind of public utility. In my opinion the likely need for nationalization and/or large-scale public spending is what makes significant new nuclear capacity impossible in the short term, given the current prevailing economic order. In this view part of the interest in renewable energy is that it allows business as usual to continue economically, where good little capitalists invest in small scale solar+wind farms with manageable capital costs that compete in a deregulated energy market for nice returns. Public opinion may shift strongly in favour of nuclear as the actual costs of a renewable-only energy become more apparent, but this delays building large-scale new nuclear capacity even longer.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:26
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The capital cost overruns are mostly interest on the loans (IIRC the Darlington complex had 70% of the cost overruns be "interest accrual"), so yeah, I largely agree with the observation that the ~*free market*~ can't accommodate nuclear power... but of course we don't accommodate the costs of CO2, nor do we do storage but instead run with natgas peaker plants. Also agreed that Exelon, SoCo, Duke et al are a bunch of bastards, but that's a feature of capitalism, not nuclear power. It still doesn't matter, it's going to be nuclear as 25-50% of the power mix (likely more, as we'll probably need to run CCS and all the ones I'm aware of eat up a gently caress load of thermal power), have a society that happily accepts intermittent power (lol), or global collapse as we keep on pumping CO2. I'm not debating that there are current hurdles that are big and ugly, I'm pointing out there really is no other option. First thing we do is drown the NRC and kick in the nuts anybody who ever said anything nice about them. Second is design and build small IFR whose core bits can fit on a few truck bed, mass produce them, and then encase them into concrete at the site. The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 14:49
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DesperateDan posted:The house might be burning down, but if we all piss ourselves in fear it might buy us precious seconds for survival! feel free to top it mr peanut gallery
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Oct 24, 2018 14:52
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The Dipshit posted:This owns, you are a cool dude/lady. Thanks! I am just a dude trying to do my part because I don't want my nieces to live in a Mad Max hell world. The generations that come before are responsible for planting trees they know they will never sit under to enjoy the shade. Let's get planting folks! Also, this is largely anecdotal, but I found out some shady poo poo my apartment complex is doing regarding recycling. Some apartment goons that are passionate about recycling might want to check up on their complex to make sure they arent being lil shits. My apartment has a recycling dumpster, but I have noticed that a recycling truck never comes to pick it up. It is always picked up with garbage and goes to the landfill. I sent a letter to the complex and told them if they didn't contract a recycling truck to pick up the goddamn recycling then I was going to report them to the city because they can be fined for having a recycling dumpster and using it for trash at least in my city. Y'all might want to check if your poo poo is actually going to a recycling center and if not see what you can do about it. Regarding Population and Carbon Emissions: A thought for those who want children, but don't want to contribute to overpopulation...you could adopt. I mean, if an unwanted child is already born that is a sunk cost for carbon emissions and population growth. Personally, I believe adopting is the ethical and moral choice versus biological procreation. There are so many kids out there who do not have a loving family and churning out a baby deprives them of that. The biological drive to reproduce our own genetic code is kind of irrelevant because we don't NEED an ever-increasing population anymore to avoid extinction.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:00
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friendbot2000 posted:Regarding Population and Carbon Emissions: This is such a no-nonsense position that I always find myself surprised goondads even try to argue, even though I know the cognitive dissonance involved in the decision to have children is simply loving massive.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:49
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Conspiratiorist posted:This is such a no-nonsense position that I always find myself surprised goondads even try to argue, even though I know the cognitive dissonance involved in the decision to have children is simply loving massive. I plan to adopt simply because I think its the right thing to do, plus, my family has a BUNCH of genetic landmines in their history and I don't feel it is ethical to roll the dice with my child's future that way. I have Severe ADHD with a comorbid mood disorder and I wouldn't wish the suffering and ostracizing I experienced on any child. Gambling with the knowledge that was in the cards seems immoral. And before goons point out that adopting could carry the same risks of the kid having genetic landmines, my conscience would be clear because I didn't roll the dice. That is someone else's karmic cost to bear.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:59
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ok getting weird now dial it back one half notch
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Oct 24, 2018 16:10
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Procreation is either a mistake or an act of pure hubris, often both. It's fine that you love your children, but that's just how it is. "But adopting is hard and expensive!" Parenting is hard and expensive. If you're not mentally or economically prepared to deal with an adoption process, then you're most likely not mentally or economically prepared to have children, either. "B-but my bloodline..." H U B R I S "My partner-" H U B R I S "Are you saying people should stop having children? What happens if everyone stops having children?!" That's not a problem yet. We can worry about if it antinatalism somehow gains such huge social traction it threatens the viability of the human species, rather than merely contributing to check population growth in some small but hopefully meaningful way. "Individual action is pointless."  Ah, now we're back into familiar territory.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:19
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The Dipshit posted:First thing we do is drown the NRC and kick in the nuts anybody who ever said anything nice about them. Second is design and build small IFR whose core bits can fit on a few truck bed, mass produce them, and then encase them into concrete at the site. Totally agree on the need for nuclear baseline power. Maybe 50 years from now renewables + grid-scale storage can effectively provide baseline power but that doesn't help us now. At the very least it's a stupidly risky gamble to go all-in on renewable generation and hope that in the near future storage costs massively decrease or long-distance transmission infrastructure appears. The main point is that any attempt to reform or nationalize the nuclear industry and regulatory agencies will need the public onboard, and right now they just aren't. You're missing the crucial step 0: get majority public support for nuclear power generation. Unless you have a plan for that then there's no reason to expect anything else to happen. The good news is that public support for nuclear power is volatile (and presumably malleable), the bad news it's been trending downwards 10 years for what should be obvious reasons.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:42
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friendbot2000 posted:The biological drive to reproduce our own genetic code is kind of irrelevant because we don't NEED an ever-increasing population anymore to avoid extinction. Yeah tell that poo poo to my wife. I was fine with adoption but she wanted to spend gobs of money on ivf to science us up a natural baby, but I figured one new baby is still negative population growth. We made a deal that if we want a second child we have to adopt, which was easy to agree to with the pain the rear end ivf has been. I fully realize that the carbon footprint of making a human will not be offset by me eating veggie burgers and leaving the house thermostat at 64 (66 between 6:30pm and midnight) degrees most of the time, which btw I won't be allowed to do with an infant in the house. There's just something about living an opulent wasteful American lifestyle that feels justified as long as you're always slightly uncomfortable in your own home. What temperature do you all set your thermostats at?
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Oct 24, 2018 16:57
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Nocturtle posted:Totally agree on the need for nuclear baseline power. Maybe 50 years from now renewables + grid-scale storage can effectively provide baseline power but that doesn't help us now. At the very least it's a stupidly risky gamble to go all-in on renewable generation and hope that in the near future storage costs massively decrease or long-distance transmission infrastructure appears. Guess we're gonna have a crash program after the public finds out what a permanent rolling brownout feels like. Luckily the costs of building reactors has most of their costs based in worker safety, which will likely be thrown out the window in such an event. Maybe we'll press gang the refugees and prison slaves on a promise of early freedom.  EDIT: Pierre Messmer did his thing against public opinion, as a counterargument. The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 17:04
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davebo posted:What temperature do you all set your thermostats at? But now that winter is coming in I might need air conditioning for when temperatures dip below 50.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:08
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davebo posted:Yeah tell that poo poo to my wife. I was fine with adoption but she wanted to spend gobs of money on ivf to science us up a natural baby, but I figured one new baby is still negative population growth. We made a deal that if we want a second child we have to adopt, which was easy to agree to with the pain the rear end ivf has been. I know you've shared this before but God drat. I'd sooner divorce then deal with someone with such pathological narcissism that they had to push through the boondoggle of ivf because they just had to have a natural baby than adopt. What a gross attitude to have. e: My thermostat is set to 64 at all times.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:09
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StabbinHobo posted:feel free to top it mr peanut gallery Sure let me just check the list of things that would actually work to stop unrestrained capital and we can talk about/organise here without risk of a ban or attention from law enforcement- . Oh, poo poo. People can take personal responsibility and try and live sustainably and that's fuckin fabulous. Plant trees. Grow your own food. Recycle stuff. I'm trying it pretty hard myself. Valuable skills to have as things go to poo poo, and every remaining bee and bird is precious. But pretending it's gonna make a shred of difference compared with the damage being done by organised capital is functionally identical to denialism, or hoping for some wonderful technological solution thats always a decade or so away. It won't stop, or even slow down what's coming.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:23
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DesperateDan posted:Sure let me just check the list of things that would actually work to stop unrestrained capital and we can talk about/organise here without risk of a ban or attention from law enforcement- "Direct action is effective, everything else is useless self soothing." Is it because direct action is taboo that people think this? It's an arbitrary line that doesn't track with reality. StabbinHobo posted:feel free to top it mr peanut gallery Is this a cute way of saying "kill yourself"? That's really lovely. All of us are comfortably at our computers, there's zero reason to lose compassion.
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Oct 24, 2018 18:55
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davebo posted:Yeah tell that poo poo to my wife. I was fine with adoption but she wanted to spend gobs of money on ivf to science us up a natural baby, but I figured one new baby is still negative population growth. We made a deal that if we want a second child we have to adopt, which was easy to agree to with the pain the rear end ivf has been. I don't use the heater except above a freezing threshold to prevent the pipes from bursting. I wear a coat indoors. Being cold owns.
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Oct 24, 2018 19:06
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Epitope posted:"Direct action is effective, everything else is useless self soothing." Is it because direct action is taboo that people think this? It's an arbitrary line that doesn't track with reality. It's not useless self soothing- people need to take better personal care of their surroundings and encourage others to do the same. It's good for the environment, and good for the person. Pretending its actually gonna change things significantly for the climate, or that it's a solution in any form is where its absolutely useless- it's like trying to bail out a boat with two broken arms and a thimble while half a dozen arseholes with firehoses fill it up. Figuring out ways to deal with what's coming isn't mitigation, it's survival. Epitope posted:Is this a cute way of saying "kill yourself"? That's really lovely. All of us are comfortably at our computers, there's zero reason to lose compassion. I think they typo'ed "stop" tbh
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Oct 24, 2018 19:34
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Has this been posted yet? http://www.greenpeace.org/seasia/Pr...-brand-audits-/ This is a very significant example of how corporations collectively contribute to a massive problem like plastic pollution. The solution here is probably to ban by government single-use plastic or develop a non-proprietaery industry-wide standard for a plastic that.... sucks less? Weren't there stories about like edible plastics? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/shortcuts/2018/apr/09/the-edible-solutions-to-the-plastic-packaging-crisis What I'm saying is boys, we need some edible coal. Edit: this is a joke, i know a lot of stupid things have been said in this thread but this is a joke
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Oct 24, 2018 20:00
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DesperateDan posted:I think they typo'ed "stop" tbh Oops, thanks. Ok, but there are (legal!) ways to restrain capital, and protect the environment in meaningful ways. Maybe all it does is buy time, but since the sun will eventually sterilize this planet buying time is all we can ever do. Protest and litigate to stop that coal mine, it's worth it even if the tide washes it all away.
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Oct 24, 2018 20:00
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im depressed lol posted:Has this been posted yet? I'm so loving bad at posting, so to save you the trouble of reading between the lines here I'm suggesting that shame tactics towards corporations could have a much larger impact. Individual action is great and important, and any action is better than casual disregard. It may even amount to nothing, but that rationalization is feeding into the 'do-nothing because what if we made the world a cleaner better place and climage change isn't even real?' mentality of the 80s/90s. To discourage individual action is just.... wrong. Instead of shaming individuals how about intense, hardcore targeted harassment of corporations that contribute to climate change? The reason why this isn't done is probably "they have money, and can afford to sue you into silence". But maybe that reason actually isn't true and is only wrong because previous campaigns used far too wide a brush and didn't get a quick run by maybe a volunteer legal outfit? Edit: And to point at an example of why a 'volunteer' lawyer isn't out of the stretch of the imagination Jim "Jonestown" Jones managed to convince a lawyer to work for him for free. im depressed lol fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 20:10
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im depressed lol posted:I'm so loving bad at posting, so to save you the trouble of reading between the lines here I'm suggesting that shame tactics towards corporations could have a much larger impact. Individual action is great and important, and any action is better than casual disregard. It may even amount to nothing, but that rationalization is feeding into the 'do-nothing because what if we made the world a cleaner better place and climage change isn't even real?' mentality of the 80s/90s. The 'shame tactic' could be much wider in effect if you ask me. We recently had a smart meter fitted & it has a remote display that shows all the usual + the Co2 generated... I'm loving ashamed of how much Co2 we generate in our house. I use public transport, walk, etc.. & I'm trying to cut down on Co2 but it's not easy, the wife has to drive to work & our kids could give less than than 2 shits 
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Oct 24, 2018 20:38
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im depressed lol posted:Has this been posted yet? The solution to plastic is simple; a bacteria that eats the plastic, since it is made out of organic material after all. The reason this bacteria hasn't been developed yet is because plastic pollution is a non-issue when compared to the imminent heat death of the planet.
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Oct 24, 2018 20:46
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I suppose it's easier to shame a corporation regarding something they made that remains as solid i.e. you can point at some plastic in the ocean and say: SEE, A loving NESTLE BRANDED WATER BOTTLE CHOKING THIS BIRD TO DEATH vs. LOOK AT THE ATOMIC AGE OF THIS PARTICULATE IN THE ATOMOSPHERE THAT CONTRIBUTES TO GLOBAL WARMING, IT'S PRECISELY CORRELATED TO THE OPENING OF THIS POWER PLANT/DEFORESTATION/WHATEVER What would the feasibility of something like that be? I know analysis of every atom of pollution in the air is ABSOLUTELY insane and this was intended as a joke. But what about something akin to the Seed-to-Sale recreational Marijuana system [June 2018] that Massachusetts is doing as it opens up recreational marijuana sales?
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Oct 24, 2018 21:02
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Trainee PornStar posted:The 'shame tactic' could be much wider in effect if you ask me. I had no idea this was a thing. The Co2 logging. They could really do more to promote less energy use by instead of using negative language like a carbon tax, maybe give the top 10% per capita of grid users reduced electricity rates as a reward? People crave validation.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:12
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im depressed lol posted:I suppose it's easier to shame a corporation regarding something they made that remains as solid i.e. you can point at some plastic in the ocean and say: I'd vote for you.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:12
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im depressed lol posted:I had no idea this was a thing. The Co2 logging. I've no idea how accurate it is but it sure makes me turn stuff off at night.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:17
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StabbinHobo posted:this is indistinguishable from parody: http://carbon.ycombinator.com/desert-flooding/ The Salton Sea V2.0
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Oct 24, 2018 21:19
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The Dipshit posted:Lol, sure, IIRC the NREL estimations still leave us needing to store electricity production capacity of the US for 2-3 days even with all the smart grid work. So, 10 million megawatt hours, give ourselves a safety factor of 2 using a 3 day assumption, so 60 million megawatt hours, which means that if we use a 1kWh deep cycle battery with, oh say about 50% of the cycle depth to keep it living as long as possible, we'll need.... 60,000,000,000,000 Wh translates to 120 billion deep cycle batteries at roughly 20 kg of lead would be, oh ~ 2 million metric tons, which would be *checks notes* about 200 times the world production of lead, needing to be recycled/replaced every 5-7 years or so, just for the US's needs. Feel free to check my math it's late here and maybe I missed something, adjust the assumptions down, or whatever. And before you ask, I'm pretty sure any other battery technology is not cheaper, nor would I expect any of them to get cheaper anytime soon enough to matter. Wanna guess how much you'll pay in this scenario? Heck, replace this with a series of cranes and concrete blocks like has been floating around recently, it's still sobering. Lead Batteries. 1995 wants it's technology back. Don't try to pull "appeal to authority" with me or I'll have to whip out my Ivy League Physics Credentials.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:22
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Trainee PornStar posted:I've no idea how accurate it is but it sure makes me turn stuff off at night. I was thinking of it as a way to get people to do poo poo like "using a clothes-line outside when possible, instead of the electric dryer; that will save me money and give me some number to talk about with my friends" Or it would get more people to use coin-op laundromats which probably still would be a net good for the environment despite transportation, as those hardcore industrial dryers are being maintain by an organization who gets rewarded by maximizing the efficiency of their energy use and the machine's lifespan.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:23
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VideoGameVet posted:Lead Batteries. 1995 wants it's technology back. Feel free to choose your alternative technology on the market, check out the masses of elemental Li involved and price it out, or be called a stupid idiot who can't frame a basic, order of magnitude appraisal of the situation. Old storage tech is almost universally cheapest, and I'm doing back of envelope calculations. There is no storage method I can think of that is cheaper, which is where you'd want to be for storage of intermitted power, going by NRELs work, people who I know and have worked with from time to time. Also, a Physics major undergraduate degree is pretty lol-worthy. Post up your Phd. dissertation, coward. The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 21:30
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The Dipshit posted:Feel free to choose your alternative technology, check out the masses of elemental Li involved and price it out, or be called a stupid idiot who can't frame a basic, order of magnitude appraisal of the situation. Old storage tech is almost universally cheapest, and I'm doing back of envelope calculations. There is no storage method I can think of that is cheaper, which is where you'd want to be for storage of intermitted power, going by NRELs work, people who I know and have worked with from time to time. Sorry, only a masters ... got recruited by a software company out of graduate school. Anyway, I don't even think batteries make sense on a large scale. What I do know is that the US Nuclear Industry has failed to deliver on its promises. Even with store, wind&solar are now the lowest cost solutions (as long as you don't hide expenses that taxpayers end up covering). What's more relevant in my background is running companies. I can look at the history of nuclear projects and draw realistic conclusions.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:41
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VideoGameVet posted:What's more relevant in my background is running companies. I can look at the history of nuclear projects and draw realistic conclusions. Oh great, another businessperson who thinks they know how to make public policy because they're so good at businesses. gently caress you, Mitt Romney! this is a joke, please don't respond to this post seriously
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Oct 24, 2018 21:44
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im depressed lol posted:I was thinking of it as a way to get people to do poo poo like "using a clothes-line outside when possible, instead of the electric dryer; that will save me money and give me some number to talk about with my friends" Great idea's mate  We just need more people to buy into the idea. (My misses for example lol)
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Oct 24, 2018 21:51
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