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Atlas Hugged posted:I play these dumb games largely because I like the tactile feel of pushing models around the table and seeing units bash into each other. I'm 100% behind the hobby aspect, and think not painting lessens the experience. However, there is still *plenty* of the experience to have using unpainted stuff. There is an endless gulf between unpainted miniatures and using chits or tokens instead. Just like there is a big difference playing chess in person with really nice physical set vs playing the same person online on ugly 2d interface. I think the 3dimensional aspect and live interactive play are more than enough for a lot of people. I'd rather have them in the hobby playing with bare plastic than kink shame them out of it.
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Oct 24, 2018 06:25
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Suggesting people find a better hobby because they don't want to paint is very rude and exclusionary Let people do. My gf likes x-wing and a big part is that the models come pre-painted and assembled.
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Oct 24, 2018 12:10
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Moola posted:Suggesting people find a better hobby because they don't want to paint is very rude and exclusionary But how dare they have fun in my hobby wrong?
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Oct 24, 2018 12:21
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I don’t care if people wanna play with unpainted models as long as it’s easy to tell their stuff apart. Get some sharpies and mark off the important stuff if painting is that repellant to you.
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Oct 24, 2018 13:34
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I'm still mad that Skaven never got an 8th edition book and that 9th edition didn't happen. There's a 9th edition Skaven book right here!  https://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?beta-page/&s=c2c72c114f80857b7a3444db53e4977178410b0b
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Oct 24, 2018 13:45
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Even if you dont like painting you can and should do a 3 color minimum. Like 2 rattle cans and a brush on metallic for weapons is pretty idiot proof.
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Oct 24, 2018 13:53
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Zenithial prime and dip in an ink, bam, done. Which one of you little rats put poison in Ettin's ear about this thread in the first place?
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Oct 24, 2018 13:55
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Yeah, I'm a slow, bad painter and I had a painted armies only tournament earlier this month so it was white primer and a lot of ink and it turned out fine.
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Oct 24, 2018 13:57
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I was perfectly happy gaming with cardboard counters and resent the fact that I'm expected to shell out for toys to non-enhance the experience.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:12
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Zenithal rattlecan priming and washes/inks with metal on the metal bits, including basing with the magic basing mud paint, took me under 4 hours to do these 25 dudes.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:14
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Moola posted:My gf
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Oct 24, 2018 14:29
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Madurai posted:I was perfectly happy gaming with cardboard counters and resent the fact that I'm expected to shell out for toys to non-enhance the experience. Do you pay for the rulebooks, or do you resent having to "shell out" for any form of financially supporting the creators of your entertainment?
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Oct 24, 2018 14:36
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I never paint anything except occasionally putting a base coat on with spraypaint. Except for like, 2 Malifaux crews
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Oct 24, 2018 14:37
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I got cardboard standees with my old Battletech box set and tbh I was fine with that. Though considering what BT had to work with back in the day getting those minis wasn't exactly a top priority.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:42
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Two Beans posted:Do you pay for the rulebooks, or do you resent having to "shell out" for any form of financially supporting the creators of your entertainment? I love rulebooks! Especially data annexes. I keep reminding people that's how Jane's Fighting Ships got started.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:43
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Skelettin posted:I took another look at this after several goons sent me some Good Arguments and actually I'm fine with leaving this open as a GW industry thread. Raising a thread from the grave for Halloween Thanks! I took one look at that other thread and saw it was like 90% memes and decided I didn't want to be there...
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Oct 24, 2018 14:45
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Moola posted:Suggesting people find a better hobby because they don't want to paint is very rude and exclusionary I’m arguing that it looks better to just use colored cubes anyway. You see these arguments in board games a lot cuz there’s a section of games that are just Kickstarters for minis with a game attached. The physical space looks awful since it’s just blobs of grey everywhere and the minis aren’t even needed to convey information that wooden cubes can’t already do. EG: Rising sun  If you notice, the game already came with little rubber circles to put in the bases because they already knew that it would look like a mess on the board without painted minis. Vs.  Plus, look how classy that looks. Then again, I play 18xx which prizes function over form. There’s actually a good comparison here with age of steam because you can use either minis or discs: /pic1910693.jpg) Vs 
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Oct 24, 2018 14:46
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even if you dislike painting, its pretty easy to do 3 color minimum, some zenithal highlighting, some nmm, mix a few custom glazes and do some wet blending, read some color theory, make a wet palette. i basically won a golden demon in about 25 minutes on my first ever mini.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:53
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If I ever played in a store I probably would have considered it. But I've played Warmachine in a store exactly once. I did prime everything beforehand but 99% of my miniature game experience has been on kitchen tables with lots of proxies so  everyone enjoys the hobby in different ways
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Oct 24, 2018 14:58
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tallkidwithglasses posted:
I am a long-time Epic 40k player and the Adeptus Titanicus people were just completely insane and proves your point that no matter what GW does it can win people back. In the last 5 years, the Epic proxy market has gotten pretty big and you can pretty much download any of the rules for free, but the AT players wanted ONLY new GW sculpts and new rules. If you told them it was possible to make a piece from bits and green stuff there were people who would flip out at you.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:18
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NC Wyeth Death Cult posted:I am a long-time Epic 40k player and the Adeptus Titanicus people were just completely insane and proves your point that no matter what GW does it can win people back. In the last 5 years, the Epic proxy market has gotten pretty big and you can pretty much download any of the rules for free, but the AT players wanted ONLY new GW sculpts and new rules. If you told them it was possible to make a piece from bits and green stuff there were people who would flip out at you. Have you actually looked at the difference between any of the new models and any of GWs old epic titan kits or even the 3d printed ones? They're a million times better. And AT isn't the same game as epic anyways.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:37
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Booley posted:Have you actually looked at the difference between any of the new models and any of GWs old epic titan kits or even the 3d printed ones? They're a million times better. 
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Oct 24, 2018 15:38
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Nebalebadingdong posted:even if you dislike painting, its pretty easy to do 3 color minimum, some zenithal highlighting, some nmm, mix a few custom glazes and do some wet blending, read some color theory, make a wet palette. i basically won a golden demon in about 25 minutes on my first ever mini. Same but unironic.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:39
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Skelettin posted:I took another look at this after several goons sent me some Good Arguments and actually I'm fine with leaving this open as a GW industry thread. Raising a thread from the grave for Halloween Here’s a good argument: suck it b*tch
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Oct 24, 2018 15:39
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Len posted:If I ever played in a store I probably would have considered it. But I've played Warmachine in a store exactly once. I did prime everything beforehand but 99% of my miniature game experience has been on kitchen tables with lots of proxies so Nebalebadingdong posted:even if you dislike painting, its pretty easy to do 3 color minimum, some zenithal highlighting, some nmm, mix a few custom glazes and do some wet blending, read some color theory, make a wet palette. i basically won a golden demon in about 25 minutes on my first ever mini. Chill la Chill posted:I’m arguing that it looks better to just use colored cubes anyway. You see these arguments in board games a lot cuz there’s a section of games that are just Kickstarters for minis with a game attached. The physical space looks awful since it’s just blobs of grey everywhere and the minis aren’t even needed to convey information that wooden cubes can’t already do. PrinnySquadron posted:I never paint anything except occasionally putting a base coat on with spraypaint. Except for like, 2 Malifaux crews Madurai posted:I was perfectly happy gaming with cardboard counters and resent the fact that I'm expected to shell out for toys to non-enhance the experience. Moola posted:Suggesting people find a better hobby because they don't want to paint is very rude and exclusionary God these quotes are extremely loving illuminating.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:41
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People saying cubes are better than models make me sick, and should be made Coupons only.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:43
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This reminds me I need to find some board games that I can play with my family over Xmas
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Oct 24, 2018 15:47
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panascope posted:People saying cubes are better than models make me sick, and should be made Coupons only. Cubes are fine, but a pretty key component of most tabletop games is that building and painting the models is supposed to be an enjoyable part of the experience that you’re paying for. It’s like, the main reason a lot of tabletop games need something as abstract as tape measures or movement tools instead of just having a hex grid or something. It’s supposed to be fun to look at and gameplay is deliberately weakened to accommodate things looking cool.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:49
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Cubes are good, minis are bad. Paint the minis if you want but they’re not gonna tell you a unit is XI motorized division, 2-5, with a 1-3 flipped side if they aren’t supplied. Blocks having 4 sides to denote weaker/stronger units owns. if you can’t imagine those blocks representing abstract divisions or army groups, that’s on you not the blocks
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Oct 24, 2018 15:51
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Man, imagine the degree of self-ownage involved in spending money on a tabletop minis game, leaving it all in grey plastic, then spending months and/or years whining on message boards that the rules aren’t as tight as board games.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:51
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I think some eurogame where cubes abstract tanks and games where the tanks are lovingly detailed models you are expected to paint are both valid, but very different hobbies. Ideally for the "no painting" crowd you have a retail model like Dust where you can buy premium pre-painted versions of the kits, but that's more of a boutique game and GW operates at such a scale to make that impractical.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:54
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Ya that’d be pretty funny, playing deliberately weaker games because they look cool
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Oct 24, 2018 15:54
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Man, imagine the degree of self-ownage involved in spending money on a tabletop minis game, leaving it all in grey plastic, then spending months and/or years whining on message boards that the rules aren’t as tight as board games. i like painting and assembling just fine but im not hoighty toighty rear end in a top hat about it
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Oct 24, 2018 15:54
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mango sentinel posted:I think some eurogame where cubes abstract tanks and games where the tanks are lovingly detailed models you are expected to paint are both valid, but very different hobbies. Ideally for the "no painting" crowd you have a retail model like Dust where you can buy premium pre-painted versions of the kits, but that's more of a boutique game and GW operates at such a scale to make that impractical. That goes back to the usual criticisms of wanting games to be what they aren’t. If the 40k people wanted that much heavy artillery like you’d see in those funny pics where titans are 2 feet away from each other, they should be playing divisional or operational level wargames.
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Oct 24, 2018 15:57
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As long as I can tell what poo poo actually is on the table, I am largely ambivalent about whether or how well it's painted. Speaking for myself, I enjoy the painting aspect of the hobby. I'm a software developer who works with complicated multi-dimensional algorithms and parallel programming all day at work. By the time I get home, the amount of my brain that I want to actively use is approximately zero. I could sit around and watch brainless TV (and sometimes I do), but I've found that for me, painting/modeling occupies that sweet spot where I am engaged and doing something, but it's not mentally taxing. It requires concentration, but not thought. It also scratches my creative itch, which my work largely does not. I also find that one of the best parts of wargaming with minis isn't necessarily the minis themselves, but a well-done table with lots of gorgeous terrain. And I don't think I'm alone in this, as if you go to conventions it's always the really nice tables that seem to generate the most buzz. As long as the game is good and the scenario is moderately balanced, it's all good regardless of minis or terrain. But well-painted minis on a well-painted table? 
Ilor fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 15:58
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mango sentinel posted:I think some eurogame where cubes abstract tanks and games where the tanks are lovingly detailed models you are expected to paint are both valid, but very different hobbies. Ideally for the "no painting" crowd you have a retail model like Dust where you can buy premium pre-painted versions of the kits, but that's more of a boutique game and GW operates at such a scale to make that impractical. It’s pretty much this, exactly. They both have their place. I just thought a half dozen posters going “  yeah I don’t build or paint models, I play grandpa hex and chit games” is pretty telling.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:01
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Chill la Chill posted:Cubes are good, minis are bad. Paint the minis if you want but they’re not gonna tell you a unit is XI motorized division, 2-5, with a 1-3 flipped side if they aren’t supplied. Blocks having 4 sides to denote weaker/stronger units owns. Putrid
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Oct 24, 2018 16:08
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This convo is really making me miss old EPIC. Squares upon squares of infantry on a 6x8 board.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:13
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I'm not really seeing the dozen of goons saying that hex and counter games are better tbh. Except for me, because in fact hex 'n' counter games ARE better
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Oct 24, 2018 16:18
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Tekopo posted:I'm not really seeing the dozen of goons saying that hex and counter games are better tbh.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:24
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