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DoctorWhat posted:Pretending that racism just ~vanishes~ over time is a neoliberal end-of-history fantasy that only hurts antiracist activism. Better to acknowledge, face, and denounce the evils that fester and recur in humanity than pretend those forms of hate will just fade away.  There's this moment in Hidden Figures where Kevin Costner's character personally knocks down the signs declaring the bathrooms at NASA as for whites only. Not only did this not happen even a little in real life, it epitomized how we view racism in America. It's something bad people did a long time ago that white people solved, so nonwhite people should be thankful to us for being so benevolent and amazing and awesome. If you keep this in mind when listening to most white people talking about race, it aligns perfectly. "Why are you still whining about this? We solved it so long ago. Why can't you just be thankful for what we did?"
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Oct 25, 2018 02:44
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poo poo i just realized i said "denounce the evils" like team loving rocket
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Oct 25, 2018 02:47
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People complained about how much Ryan and Yaz sitting behind the bin, talking about their experiences with racism in current times despite all the progress since Rosa's day, was beating people over the head with the message of the episode and yet here we are doing the "but how can there be racism in the future!?" dance.
Box of Bunnies fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Oct 25, 2018 |
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Oct 25, 2018 03:17
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I'mma get a little personal, but I was raised by racist-as-gently caress parents who never came to terms with their own poo poo, so I had to deprogram a lot of it, and I gotta' tell ya': just admitting that racism exists and realizing nobody was saying it was my fault, but that I could be a participant in it, but didn't have to be, unclenched my metaphorical anus by like 30%. It's funny as gently caress how being a lot more relaxed on the topic enabled me to talk about it when I see it, but people's perception of me was that I'd suddenly become very uptight when the opposite was very much the case. I wasn't walking around clenched-up and defensive about it anymore, and could engage with the topic when it came up, but talking about it always leads to somebody both-sidesing racist poo poo and antiracist poo poo and because it's still uncomfortable for a lot of people to talk about, that narrative tends to favor never talking about it or calling it out. Don't talk about racism, even when you see it, because if you do, you're part of the problem. Because we solved it so long ago and you're just being a drama queen. The next step is for a shitload of people to chime in talking about how annoying it is that this has become the discussion, when they wanted to talk about something else. Then, the both-sides-ism dissipates in favor of people talking about how racism is bad are the real problem. Which is responded to with a degree of anger, because how could it not be, when the subject is racism. Followed by somebody posting "nice meltdown," followed by somebody posting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI I'm thankful that one thing has changed: back in the day, here, they'd ban users on one side of the argument, but not the other, which is absolutely picking a side. That seems to have subsided quite a lot in recent years.
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Oct 25, 2018 03:35
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DoctorWhat posted:poo poo i just realized i said "denounce the evils" like team loving rocket Yeah I realized you were cool as hell too  LividLiquid posted:Things that happen in real life where if you put them in a screenplay in a writing class, your professor would be like, "isn't this a little too on the nose? Maybe be more subtle with it." Mostly unrelated, but I just remembered that when test audiences watched Good Night and Good Luck, they said they loved the film but were irritated at the actor who played Joseph McCarthy, because he played the guy like a deranged cartoon lunatic and his dialogue was so ridiculous and insane that it was clear the writer had an axe to grind. Joseph McCarthy in the film was played by actual footage and recorded audio of Joseph McCarthy. Hell, when I watched The Post recently I thought the dialogue they wrote for Nixon was over-the-top till I remembered they were actually playing the audio of Nixon on the actual White House tapes.
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Oct 25, 2018 05:37
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DoctorWhat posted:poo poo i just realized i said "denounce the evils" like team loving rocket When did you regenerate into Jessie? LividLiquid posted:I'mma get a little personal, but I was raised by racist-as-gently caress parents who never came to terms with their own poo poo, so I had to deprogram a lot of it, and I gotta' tell ya': just admitting that racism exists and realizing nobody was saying it was my fault, but that I could be a participant in it, but didn't have to be, unclenched my metaphorical anus by like 30%. I can't put into words how much I hate my dad and his idiot girlfriend's casual racism.
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Oct 25, 2018 06:48
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My parents were wonderful when dealing with race, I was taught that we were all the same and if anyone said otherwise you punch them in their goddamned mouth.
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Oct 25, 2018 07:41
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Doctor Spaceman posted:No mention of Gone in 60 Seconds either. The one Hollywood blockbuster he was in that I believe he really enjoyed making. 
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Oct 25, 2018 08:32
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I'm one of the folks that was speculating Time Greaser was talking about humankind en masse, but it was idle speculation I'm not disappointed it turned out otherwise, my complaints about him as a villain had to do with his acting and writing, not his motivations I'm also not shocked the Doctor Who future isn't racism free, though I was maybe a little hopeful; I would like to fantasize about a distant era where people can be maybe not be garbage, I understand that's not a realistic, pertinent, or especially interesting story to tell... just a man can dream, if people can travel through space and time in a blue box, maybe someday we as a species can get our heads out of our collective asses that's not some neo-liberal naivety on my part, most of my family still drops N bombs in casual conversations and I know full well that's never going to change I just like to dream
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Oct 25, 2018 08:41
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I got real sad halfway through typing that
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Oct 25, 2018 08:43
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Best part of the episode was the Doctors angry kid face when she soniced the gun.
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Oct 25, 2018 11:03
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Box of Bunnies posted:People complained about how much Ryan and Yaz sitting behind the bin, talking about their experiences with racism in current times despite all the progress since Rosa's day, was beating people over the head with the message of the episode and yet here we are doing the "but how can there be racism in the future!?" dance. That scene was really good and I don't think it was beating people over the head at all. It's nice when the companions can just talk about their lived experiences from today, it helps to develop them as characters.
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Oct 25, 2018 12:01
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Lunatic Sledge posted:I'm one of the folks that was speculating Time Greaser was talking about humankind en masse, but it was idle speculation Yeah, sorry to thise who think that racism will live forever but I agree with this. I believe there will be a future, probably not in my lifetime, but in the Star Trek far future, where skin color among humans won't matter. It's the future Gene Roddenberry believed in and it's one I want to see. Wanting to see that doesn't mean you want to ignore real discrimination and repeat the past either. It doesn't mean that you would sit idly by while people discriminate against Mars Born humans or blue skinned aliens from Deneb either. And I'm not saying anyone here is wrong or trying to force you to change your mind. I'm not trying to deny anyone's feelings on this or shut down discussion. I'm simply stating my opinion and that we disagree.
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Oct 25, 2018 12:52
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Dreamt that they cast Craig Ferguson as the next Doctor after Jodie and man, that would be the best.
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Oct 25, 2018 15:12
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Rhyno posted:Dreamt that they cast Craig Ferguson as the next Doctor after Jodie and man, that would be the best. He'd give it a good go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLT-955k3yc
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Oct 25, 2018 15:34
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And there’d absolutely be a Two Doctors adventure with Capaldi.
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Oct 25, 2018 15:40
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I would be good with a totally hilarious at all times Doctor.
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Oct 25, 2018 15:41
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Rhyno posted:Dreamt that they cast Craig Ferguson as the next Doctor after Jodie and man, that would be the best. Pictured: the Seventh Doctor, his travelling companion Dave and the Master in a scene from season 27: 
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Oct 25, 2018 15:43
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do we have a picture of paul mccartney by any chance?
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Oct 25, 2018 15:44
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Wheat Loaf posted:Pictured: the Seventh Doctor, his travelling companion Dave and the Master in a scene from season 27: Man, I miss the old Drive Room.
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Oct 25, 2018 15:46
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I think a lot of it comes down to Revival Who's tendency to go with ridiculous time frames. There's no reason to have Crisco come from the 79th century - he isn't characterized any differently than someone from today, and he's able to blend into Earth, 1955 just fine. How much do you know about life in 3800 BC? That's the time frame they used, and it doesn't make sense. They could have gone with someone from 100-500 years out and still used the Neural Inhibitor and even time travel if they wanted. If they didn't want to give humans time travel that early, he could have bought the equipment or done the TNG "mugged a time traveler" thing. That's not even getting into how different the ethnic makeup of humanity will be by that point, and that racism of that period will almost certainly be dependent on a different set of signifiers, and... it's just a weird choice, and only leads to these kinds of arguments.
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Oct 25, 2018 17:22
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Fil5000 posted:Man, I miss the old Drive Room. It made so much sense that the Dwarf was controlled from a VIC-20.
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Oct 25, 2018 17:24
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The 14th Doctor's gonna have some weird rear end companions. How does the BBC handle cussing bunnies?
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Oct 25, 2018 17:26
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Handles for Companion
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Oct 25, 2018 19:25
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Jerusalem posted:Mostly unrelated, but I just remembered that when test audiences watched Good Night and Good Luck, they said they loved the film but were irritated at the actor who played Joseph McCarthy, because he played the guy like a deranged cartoon lunatic and his dialogue was so ridiculous and insane that it was clear the writer had an axe to grind. (This is an urban legend)
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Oct 25, 2018 19:27
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Joe McCarthy is an interesting guy because everything you learn about him makes him even more of a cartoony villain. He's one of history's most successful lazy opportunists, which is really saying something.
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Oct 25, 2018 19:53
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Bicyclops posted:Joe McCarthy is an interesting guy because everything you learn about him makes him even more of a cartoony villain. He's one of history's most successful lazy opportunists, which is really saying something. A Red Scare historical episode could be legit awesome.
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Oct 25, 2018 20:12
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Saw a headline today that said,"MOFFAT SAYS NEW DOCTOR WHO LOOKS CHEAP!" I read the article and it basically says,"I worry that Netflix is pouring so much money into premium television drama nowadays that a show like Doctor Who runs a risk of looking cheap by comparison like it did back in the 80s, and I think given how much money it generates for the BBC it deserves to have a higher production budget than it currently gets."
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Oct 26, 2018 00:22
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the show looks great even if it's somehow still directed by an idiot who loves close-ups too much. but honestly i'd be much happier with lower production values and more episodes 
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Oct 26, 2018 00:27
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After The War posted:How much do you know about life in 3800 BC? That's the time frame they used, and it doesn't make sense. That might have something to do with 3800 BC predating the written word.
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Oct 26, 2018 00:28
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After The War posted:I think a lot of it comes down to Revival Who's tendency to go with ridiculous time frames. There's no reason to have Crisco come from the 79th century - he isn't characterized any differently than someone from today, and he's able to blend into Earth, 1955 just fine. How much do you know about life in 3800 BC? That's the time frame they used, and it doesn't make sense. They could have gone with someone from 100-500 years out and still used the Neural Inhibitor and even time travel if they wanted. If they didn't want to give humans time travel that early, he could have bought the equipment or done the TNG "mugged a time traveler" thing. I thought the 79th century was just where his device was set to, and that he was actually from the 51st/52nd Century since that's where we know the Stormcage is and where vortex manipulators are from. Not that that improves things much.
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Oct 26, 2018 00:32
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Jerusalem posted:Hell, when I watched The Post recently I thought the dialogue they wrote for Nixon was over-the-top till I remembered they were actually playing the audio of Nixon on the actual White House tapes. To be fair, the guy they got to pretend to be Nixon in the distance during those scenes was overplaying it with his hand movements a little.
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Oct 26, 2018 00:52
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MrL_JaKiri posted:(This is an urban legend) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/3650203/When-television-took-a-stand.html quote:A final irony, one that makes this film's existence all the more necessary: youthful test audiences complained that the actor playing McCarthy was OTT, a drunken boor. It was no actor - just original footage of the man himself.
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Oct 26, 2018 01:16
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Rhyno posted:Dreamt that they cast Craig Ferguson as the next Doctor after Jodie and man, that would be the best.
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Oct 26, 2018 01:30
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Jerusalem posted:Saw a headline today that said,"MOFFAT SAYS NEW DOCTOR WHO LOOKS CHEAP!" Despite the misleading headline, it's good to see him fighting for the show. I don't think he's knocking the show as it is, and they are doing an amazing job making it look great. But he of all people knows what the production budget is and he's right, it is a money maker and deserves it's due.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:03
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Absolutely, I was pointing out how obviously clickbait/misleading the headline was (I guess it worked, since I read it  )For any criticism that Moffat got, both deserved and undeserved, I never doubted for a moment that his love of the show was utterly genuine.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:54
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Jerusalem posted:Absolutely, I was pointing out how obviously clickbait/misleading the headline was (I guess it worked, since I read it I very much disliked Moffat's run on the show, but I still have some goodwill for him based on Night/Day of the Doctor. And also how he'd encourage DW actors to work with Big Finish after they've done the show, too. Only a true fan would do stuff like that. 
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Oct 26, 2018 03:15
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That said, if there is somebody whose love for the show outshines almost everybody else in the universe, it's gotta be RTD. He's just so infectiously joyful whenever he talks about Who. When Big Finish got the contract to do revival era stuff and they spoke to him about it, he was so giddy talking about the possibilities 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 26, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 03:24
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I have very complicated feelings about the DW budget. It shouldn't be starved out the way Moffat claims it has been, but it also should not be a commercial product. It's public television and the whole "slut it up", "big money-maker" attitude flies in the face of the messages of anticapitalist action that made Oxygen the best 45 minutes of Who that season.
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Oct 26, 2018 07:46
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A very salient point was made in some prior iteration of this thread that if the BBC system that benefits from the Doctor Who revival didn't exist, then then Doctor Who revival itself wouldn't have happened as the money to make it only came from money generated by other successful BBC products around the time that RTD was pitching for it. That said, I do think it would be nice if they put a little more money into it, as keeping it as a successful property they can market and use the money to pour into other BBC stuff is only to their benefit.
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Oct 26, 2018 08:14
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