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TorakFade posted:Isn't msi gaming app for video cards only? Or does it control also motherboards? https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=292014.0 quote:Platform : Intel 100, 200 series, and AM4 platform  (so that means that GPUs can also be split - a Gaming X 1080ti uses Gaming App, but the Lightning 1080ti uses Mystic Light) The hardware's great, but they really need to get their software side together.
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Oct 27, 2018 10:35
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ItBreathes posted:Links? Because I had an i3-6100 that couldn't hold 60 when lot of things were going on. Since moving to a 2600 it hasn't given me a problem once.  Though higher CPU frequency seems to somewhat help you have to get to absurdly low levels to 'bottleneck'. Not sure what else might have been wrong on your old system, I'd guess RAM quantity which would track with too many objects causing lag. v1ld posted:What's the word on eGPUs as a good way to play games with an ultralight? Your desktop CPU is faster, for one. For seconds, you'll throttle. For thirds, you're going to have a mediocre cooling solution designed for office productivity and web browsing, so once the CPU is sitting stuck at 100c it'll start heating parts of the system that aren't meant to get hot. It won't instantly break, but your longevity will suffer, and heating the battery as a result of all this will age it prematurely. Gaming laptops look like they do for good reasons, and even if you're keeping the GPU workload external it's just not going to play well.
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Oct 27, 2018 10:36
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For some of those dinky ultralights with a heat-dissipating metal chassis, you can sometimes get significant improvements by having your workstation area also point a fan or cooling pad directly at the laptop. This was the case for e.g. the Surface line, infamously. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC8rCeDMqFw
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Oct 27, 2018 10:45
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LRADIKAL posted:"how can I get more fps out of my non-overclocked k chip?" Yeah, he can definitely get more bang for his buck by pushing that 3570k. I'm at a stable 4.2 GHz with underclocked voltage right now and I could ease it up to 4.4 GHz if I wanted to. As far as GPU sag goes, I thought having a backplate would mitigate that somewhat.
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Oct 27, 2018 11:05
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ronya posted:https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=292014.0 This looks a bit outdated, still I have an AM4 B450 GAMING PRO CARBON AC, would that be a gaming or a pro mobo?  guessing it's gaming, but the msi page for that board under the utilities download section has both msi gaming app and msi mystic light 3. And both were recently updated too!It's pretty terrible and confusing, but luckily the board works great and all the apps are absolutely unnecessary (except whatever controls/turns off the lights if you're bothered by that)
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Oct 27, 2018 11:24
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Is there a consensus on the new RTX cards yet? My current build is here based around a i7-8700K running on a ASRock Fatal1ty Z370 Mini ITX in a Corsair 250D Mini ITX case. It currently has my old GTX 970 4GB card in there, which is obviously severely underpowered in the build. I had been holding off on replacing the card when I upgraded the system back in March as I wanted to see what the new generation would bring and I had a baby daughter, so my gaming was going to suffer over the summer... Looking around the four main contenders for a replacement:
It seems to me that the performance benefit of the 1080ti over the 2070 is slight (Passmark suggests 14,082 to 13,435. I can't really justify £740 for a 2080 unless it will completely change my experience. I'm tempted by the £599 2070 card. Anyone have any thoughts?
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Oct 27, 2018 13:32
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Any idea what monitor you use and/or games you play is going to be useful.
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Oct 27, 2018 13:57
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Khablam posted:Any idea what monitor you use and/or games you play is going to be useful. A valid point! I use a Acer - Predator XB271HUA which is a 27" 165Hz G-Sync 2560 x 1440 WQHD monitor as my primary. For work it is flanked by two Dell - U2412M 24.0" 1920x1200 monitors. I mostly play PUBG and other similar games.
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Oct 27, 2018 14:07
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Bouchehog posted:Is there a consensus on the new RTX cards yet? My current build is here based around a i7-8700K running on a ASRock Fatal1ty Z370 Mini ITX in a Corsair 250D Mini ITX case. It currently has my old GTX 970 4GB card in there, which is obviously severely underpowered in the build. I had been holding off on replacing the card when I upgraded the system back in March as I wanted to see what the new generation would bring and I had a baby daughter, so my gaming was going to suffer over the summer... If you're buying new, the new cards are worth it for the longer term support. If you're buying used, the selling point of the 10-series at this point is a thriving used market with transferrable warranties, which is potentially 20-30% cheaper.
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Oct 27, 2018 15:37
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Bouchehog posted:A valid point! I use a Acer - Predator XB271HUA which is a 27" 165Hz G-Sync 2560 x 1440 WQHD monitor as my primary. For work it is flanked by two Dell - U2412M 24.0" 1920x1200 monitors. I'd buy a used 1080Ti right now if you can get a warranty on it. People very rarely bought these to mine crypto, so it's unlikely to have been stuck in a hot case locked to 100%. A 2070 is a side-grade on a 1080, with promise of RTX and DSS support, so if you want to buy new you can go there.
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Oct 27, 2018 16:37
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What's a good external hard drive or external hard drive enclosure? I ask because the 7 year-old WD Caviar Black drives in my computer keep causing the faceplate on my computer case (Corsair Carbide 400R) to make a buzzing sound.
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Oct 27, 2018 18:21
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So I want to get a good quality 'working build' together for an i7-8700k based build. I only need 16gb or ram to start off with though I am planning on more later for ram-intensive animation/art workloads. Because I really like the look and creature comforts of it, I'll be going with an NZXT case (either h500 or h700 - possibly the i-version if I want phillips hue pretties and fan control) and will be using my existing 1080 GPU with the intention of picking up an RTX card sometime next year. I'll be aiming to also get a suitably good 1080p g-sync display - either 144hz or 240hz, the latter only depending if there's a really good deal on them. Also planning on investing in a 4k cintiq drawing display but that's a big investment that can wait a year or three. I'll basically have this working build handy to present when I'm about ready to start picking up the parts for it so I can run it by you guys again at the time for feedback on tweaking my purchase. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 20:40
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spasticColon posted:What's a good external hard drive or external hard drive enclosure? I ask because the 7 year-old WD Caviar Black drives in my computer keep causing the faceplate on my computer case (Corsair Carbide 400R) to make a buzzing sound. It won't solve your issue, here. There's a lot of no-name brands you'll find cheap on Amazon, though. I have a technet one that's been quick and reliable over a couple of years.
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Oct 27, 2018 20:42
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Earlier in the thread I asked about relative merits of building a PC in South Korea versus the US as I'm moving abroad for a year or more, but after some research I decided to build a PC before I leave the States. My primary use for this rig is gaming and streaming, mostly games like Final Fantasy 14, Monster Hunter: World, Warframe, Path of Exile, and new releases on Very High/Ultra quality. I've mostly done 1080 gaming, but I'd like to push to 1440 seeing as a new monitor is going to be necessary following my move. My budget is between $1500-1800, and I need a small enough case to travel easily, hence the Fractal Design Node 202. PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($309.99 @ Amazon) CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - C7 40.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: Asus - ROG Strix H370-I Gaming Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($135.11 @ Amazon) Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($139.99 @ Newegg) Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1.0TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($277.99 @ Amazon) Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Turbo OC Video Card ($449.89 @ OutletPC) Case: Fractal Design - Node 202 HTPC Case ($79.83 @ Newegg) Power Supply: Corsair - SF 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($75.53 @ Newegg) Total: $1498.32 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-10-27 16:20 EDT-0400 Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
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Oct 27, 2018 21:25
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That Samsung is too expensive. Try this https://pcpartpicker.com/product/88bwrH/hp-ex920-1tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-2yy47aaabc pcpartpicker calls your system at 309 watts, but that's showing the CPU running at 65 watts max. That thing is going to do at least 95 and probably more. Not to mention if you overclock at all. I'd say to go up to 500 watts just to be safe, or possibly keep your PSU running a little more quietly. The 8700k also isn't necessary for 60fps gaming (if that's what you're doing) and you could save some money going with a 2700X Looks like you've done your homework. Would probably be a good idea to spend a few bucks on some nicer case fans (small case can be loud!) and to buy some cable extensions and fan splitters to make sure everything can reach.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:10
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What are the budget choices for SSDs these days? 2.5” SATA, not M2. It can be pretty small, it’s to toss into an old laptop so I can use it when I can’t be at my desktop.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:39
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What's a good case that's 13'' or smaller in all three dimensions? Most of the cases I can find are longer or taller.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:56
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A post in which I admit to being a giant idiot and plead for help: Got my new i7 9700k/ Asrock Z390 Taichi build put together. Did a little prime 95 testing to see temperatures, look pretty good under the Noctua cooler. At this point, all I had done from within the BIOS is turn on XMP profile for my 3200/ CL14 memory, which was autodetected and seemed to work fine. Then I turned on the Multi Core enhancement. That also seemed fine. Then we get to the problem. I haven't really looked into overclocking in a long time, but I went in and turned each core's multiplier up to 50. I figured this would be safe enough for fooling around if I didn't touch any of the power settings which I didn't know that much about yet. Figgured it would crash, I'd turn it down, and deal with it later on when I wanted to learn more. Instead, it booted and I fired up the "blended" mode in Prime 95 with hardware info 64 running. The test ran for about 5 seconds before I looked over at the info screen and saw 1.5xx volts on the CPU core. I had enough time to think "wait that seems really high" before the screen shut off. I guess it turns out that all of Asrock's Auto power settings really mean "lol have unlimited power what would you like?" Now it won't boot at all - Motherboard is alternately giving error codes 09 or 55, both of which claim either memory is not detected or the CPU should be re-installed. I've reset the CMOS and reinstalled the ram, and tried one stick at a time, and tried the other channel slots just in case. No changes from anything. Have not gone through and pulled the CPU cooler to try and re-seat the CPU yet. So I guess my questions are: 1) How likely is it I have destroyed something? 2) What's the best way to figgure out WHAT I destroyed, as I don't have another system with compatible components to swap with. 3) What's the most likely thing that I did destroy? It seems unlikely this would have actually done anything to the RAM as I did nothing there but turn on XMP, but maybe the memory controller? 4) Please point at me and call me an idiot. I guess that one isn't really a question.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:11
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TorakFade posted:I have a MSI motherboard, and tried to install every single software to check them out. The only one that I still have is Mystic Light to tinker with the LEDs. The semi-useful one is msi command center to make fan curves, but it resets the fan curve at every reboot and you have to reload it from a saved file (official stance of MSI on this is "yes we know, it's only for temporary changes" so I set up the fan curve via BIOS and uninstalled their lovely software) Alright, thanks. MSI's documentation is... less than stellar. I got Mystic Light even though my case doesn't have a window, can't let all that LED go to waste. A program that can control multiple units would definitely be nice, I had to download Asus' RGB LED software in order to sync the GPU with the MB. Since pictures of builds was asked for (sorry for the bad lighting):  Picking the old build apart   Some crusted dust. I took the opportunity to completely clean out the case and fans.   The new build coming together.  Had to take a pic of the fancy RAM heatsinks.  All done. Despite having a modular PSU this time around I couldn't get the cables as neat as I wanted to. Maybe I'll have another go at it on Sunday.  It lives! And it's almost completely silent!
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Oct 27, 2018 23:35
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22 Eargesplitten posted:What are the budget choices for SSDs these days? 2.5” SATA, not M2. It can be pretty small, it’s to toss into an old laptop so I can use it when I can’t be at my desktop. WD's Blue 3D has been pretty cheap recently, and it's a good drive. I really wouldn't go much cheaper than that.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:36
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Raised by Hamsters posted:1) How likely is it I have destroyed something? Does the Taichi have that dual bios stuff that lets you restore from a backup without booting? If so, that could be worth trying. You could try reseating, but that would only really matter if you messed something up initially. Did you turn it off completely and restart after all of the other changes but before the 50x multiplier? The best case is it's just the CMOS being screwy and it not actually resetting. I hope someone else has some good ideas for you. You could always try to return it if it is the CPU. edit: If the -0.1v bug for manually set voltages applied to the auto voltage then it would have been 1.6xx while showing 1.5xx. Khorne fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 23:53
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BIG HEADLINE posted:WD's Blue 3D has been pretty cheap recently, and it's a good drive. I really wouldn't go much cheaper than that. Okay. Looks like the MX500 is about the same price right now. That would be better, right?
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Oct 28, 2018 00:37
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Khorne posted:But you turned your computer off yourself which would seem to hint that maybe it's actually okay? To clarify - I didn't exactly turn it off, I kinda sat there for a couple of seconds looking at that voltage mentally going, "Uhhhhhhh" and then it black screened, power stayed on, monitor lost signal and went into standby mode as if I had unplugged the video cable leading to it. At that point I forced shutdown by holding the power button in. The Taichi does supposedly have a backup bios but I have not yet found a way to actually make it switch between them. Still looking into that. And yes, I was doing a full restart and testing between each change, had been making changes one at a time. I'm not aware of the bug you're referencing but would this affect the reported voltage from something like Hardware info 64? That's where I was seeing that high core reading. The Asrock BIOS doesn't really have numbers for anything, by default all of the power and performance stuff basically just says "auto" and I never touched it. Anyway, really appreciate the help.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:41
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So the good news is that I built my new PC and that everything runs pretty much like a charm... except for the RAM. Not only can't I get it to run at higher than 2400 HZ despite the pair of sticks being rated for 3000 but more worrying half of it just isn't available. It's listed as 'Hardware Reserved' which from my googling around seems to hint that I'm in for quite a wild ride trying to figure out what's wrong exactly. I'm not looking forward to it, it could be so many things. Ugh. For anyone that might have some ideas that could help me out with this predicament, I'm using Team T-Force Vulcan 2x8gb for RAM and Gigabyte M450M DS3H for my motherboard.
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Oct 28, 2018 02:10
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Danakir posted:For anyone that might have some ideas that could help me out with this predicament, I'm using Team T-Force Vulcan 2x8gb for RAM and Gigabyte M450M DS3H for my motherboard. Your memory is not on the qualified vendor list for your board so you're not guaranteed anything, but a very slightly different set of Team T-Force Vulcan sticks with the same timings and a slightly slower 2800MHz are on the QVL so matching that seems like a reasonable expectation to me. I don't really know how strict motherboards are about that stuff though. Good things to do: 1. Verify that your sticks are in the right place and not both in the same channel. Manual says DDR4_1 and DDR4_2 which are the 4th and 2nd slots, counting from the left. If that doesn't work you can try the 1st and 3rd slots instead. 2. Check that the sticks work independently. 3. Update your BIOS. There was a memory compatibility update in August, which might at least help with the timing. Probably not so much the detected but reserved issue. 4. If the rest checks out then googling makes it sound like it's most likely an issue with either the motherboard's memory controller when using dual channel memory, or an issue with the CPU's connection to the same. Remove the CPU, check for bent pins. Reseat it very carefully and securely if all is well and hope that was it. If there are bent pins then you can manually unbend them. Success has been reported from using a thin spatula, credit card, empty mechanical pencil or sewing needle. If a pin is broken or otherwise rendered not unbendable then you might have trouble getting an RMA, but you can try to get away with one by not mentioning the pin issue.
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Oct 28, 2018 03:58
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Raised by Hamsters posted:To clarify - I didn't exactly turn it off, I kinda sat there for a couple of seconds looking at that voltage mentally going, "Uhhhhhhh" and then it black screened, power stayed on, monitor lost signal and went into standby mode as if I had unplugged the video cable leading to it. At that point I forced shutdown by holding the power button in. 5.0 is a high overclock on 9th gen, 5.1 is about the highest anyone has got stable. I can see it being possible that auto voltage + aggressive LLC could rapidly get out of control. The intel spec puts a maximum voltage (as a limit, not recommendation) on coffee lake of 1.52v. Usually that would just break the CPU down rapidly over a medium amount of time in use, so hopefully something went wrong bios-wise and you can wake it up. The real lesson here is never look at numbers people are claiming they're getting, and never take someone else's settings and just try to jump right to their result. Auto-voltage is also only viable for mild overclocking. For example - pushing all-core turbo to single-thread turbo speeds. Also remember all-core overclocking should be seen as a delta from the all-core stock turbo, not the single core.
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Oct 28, 2018 03:58
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Danakir posted:So the good news is that I built my new PC and that everything runs pretty much like a charm... except for the RAM. Not only can't I get it to run at higher than 2400 HZ despite the pair of sticks being rated for 3000 but more worrying half of it just isn't available. It's listed as 'Hardware Reserved' which from my googling around seems to hint that I'm in for quite a wild ride trying to figure out what's wrong exactly. I'm not looking forward to it, it could be so many things. Ugh. While I don't have any tips of troubleshooting ram, I do have the same ram on a system with a 2600 and an ASRock B350M Pro4 and it runs at 2933 just fine once XMP was enabled (which is all it ran at with an Intel CPU too), so its not likely to be CPU incompatibility. Khablam posted:
It only ever occurred during particularly intense firefights in PVP, which I'm guessing it wasn't benchmarked for. A quick glance at the GN article doesn't appear to say what their benchmark consisted of, but I'd be surprised if they did PVP. In every other situation it ran just fine.
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Oct 28, 2018 04:15
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EVGA"s got the EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G3 for $89.99. They're really doing a lot of discounts on 1000 Watt units lately for some reason. Probably worth looking at even if you don't need 1000 Watts if you were buying something for a similar price. https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-G3-1000-X1
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Oct 28, 2018 05:11
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Gonna guess they overproduced for crypto and are trying to move stock.
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Oct 28, 2018 05:24
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I'm picking up a NZXT - H500 for someones build. Reviews make me concerned about airflow, even with no OC planned for i3 8xxx CPU or RX 570 GPU. The motherboards in their price range (looking at ASRock - H310M-DGS right now) look to have just one PWM header. Are there any recommended ways to get more fans connected up? I could go directly though the EVGA - SuperNOVA G1 PSU but would prefer not losing the convenience of PWM. There is a spare PCIe 2.0 x1 on most boards in this range that could be used for some kind of controller. No 5.25" in front to use though. I could try splitting the current PWM but I can't find the amperage for the PWM header in the mobo documentations. Especially since they're on the budget end, I don't want to risk blowing it with a few .4 or a several .2/.3 fans. Any simple stuff I'm overlooking? Broad suggestions, maybe in the way of mobo or accessory suggestions to address this issue while keeping PWM viable?
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Oct 28, 2018 05:26
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Nine of Eight posted:Gonna guess they overproduced for crypto and are trying to move stock. Ding ding ding! PSUs are most efficient at 50% use, but there's no harm in running a unit like this at 15-33%. I've been running a Seasonic 1kW for a while now and I've never had a problem running it off an otherwise normal wall socket - though for a while I was running it off a switched one...whoops. >.>
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Oct 28, 2018 05:30
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Rexxed posted:EVGA"s got the EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G3 for $89.99. They're really doing a lot of discounts on 1000 Watt units lately for some reason. Probably worth looking at even if you don't need 1000 Watts if you were buying something for a similar price. If you want you can also combine it with https://www.evga.com/power-meter/ which will apparently give you between 5% and 20% off. I got a 750W w/5% code for under $60
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Oct 28, 2018 05:34
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harrygomm posted:I'm picking up a NZXT - H500 for someones build. Reviews make me concerned about airflow, even with no OC planned for i3 8xxx CPU or RX 570 GPU. The motherboards in their price range (looking at ASRock - H310M-DGS right now) look to have just one PWM header. The h500i has an integrated fan controller with a bunch of pwm headers, but it’s about $30 more expensive. I have one and I like it, but I have liquid cooling for both the cpu and gpu so airflow isn’t as much of a factor.
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Oct 28, 2018 05:54
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harrygomm posted:I'm picking up a NZXT - H500 for someones build. Reviews make me concerned about airflow, even with no OC planned for i3 8xxx CPU or RX 570 GPU. The motherboards in their price range (looking at ASRock - H310M-DGS right now) look to have just one PWM header. https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/H310M-DGS/index.asp#Specification quote:- 1 x CPU Fan Connector (4-pin)* I think you'd be OK with a 50¢ PWM splitter connected to the 2A header I have a question of my own: I'm looking for a fan hub that can convert a PWM signal to a DC one, like the one in the Define R6, for another case. Are there any cheaper than the Phantek fan hub? Ideally with a few PWM outs too ronya fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 06:14
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Ding ding ding! Are prices dropping on others too? I've got a friend who needs a new PSU. Maybe Black Friday combined with crypto implosion will be good for him.
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Oct 28, 2018 06:40
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Are prices dropping on others too? I've got a friend who needs a new PSU. Maybe Black Friday combined with crypto implosion will be good for him. PSU prices aren't going to be super-low for long. There's a glut of product on shelves and in warehouses, but most of the stuff that goes *into* PSUs is on the tariff list. EVGA's G1+, G2, and G3 series (the latter two at the 750W SKU and up) are all twelve year warranty Gold units until 12/31 everywhere EVGA has warranty support, which I think is every continent but Antarctica. But Seasonic's Focus Plus units have been well-priced recently as well.
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Oct 28, 2018 07:41
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GutBomb posted:The h500i has an integrated fan controller with a bunch of pwm headers, but it’s about $30 more expensive. I have one and I like it, but I have liquid cooling for both the cpu and gpu so airflow isn’t as much of a factor. ronya posted:https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/H310M-DGS/index.asp#Specification Both good ideas, thank you.
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Oct 28, 2018 13:01
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I want to get a pre-built PC so I can spread the cost over time. Budget is about £700 (UK) and I'd like to play most titles at medium settings at 1080, ideally at 60 FPS. I'd also like to use it for video editing and some content creation (basically loving around with the Unreal Engine). I realise this probably won't be possible, not with new parts anyway. Is there any point in still getting an i5 processor? I've read in some places that i7 processors don't offer much in the way of performance boost. A little confused since the i5/i7 nomenclature seems to have been around for years so it depends on which generation of either you use? Also, just as an aside, holy gently caress PCs got ugly as hell. Why is everything black and red? I thought we all agreed after the 80s that look was tacky as hell. edit: I put together a build on cyberpowersystem.co.uk that seems OK but I'm not sure how to put it here without making this post ten screens long. Processor: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G - 4-Core 3.5GHz, 3.7GHz Turbo - 4MB L3 Cache 65W Processor w/ Radeon Vega 8 Graphics PSU: Cooler Master MasterWatt Lite 400W 80+ Power Supply GPU: MSI GeForce® GTX 1050 Ti 4GB RAM: 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4/2400mhz Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Vengeance LPX w/Heat Spreader) HDD: 1TB Seagate BarraCuda SATA-III SSD: 120GB ADATA Ultimate SU650 SATA III Gaming Solid State Disk With the case and wireless card and everything else it comes to £685 with VAT. joedevola fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 14:37
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joedevola posted:Also, just as an aside, holy gently caress PCs got ugly as hell. Why is everything black and red? I thought we all agreed after the 80s that look was tacky as hell.  I wish there were more cases without windows as well. On one hand these RGB fans and RAM are cool, on the other hand I'm glad that it's not in my bedroom because it could get really annoying to have to deal with it all day even if I'm not on the computer. I'm more of a function over form guy. I hate to use a car analogy, but I'd rather have a sleeper computer.
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Oct 28, 2018 15:42
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joedevola posted:Processor: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G - 4-Core 3.5GHz, 3.7GHz Turbo - 4MB L3 Cache 65W Processor w/ Radeon Vega 8 Graphics If you can go £20 over budget, this works with significant gains:  from: pcspecialist.co.uk Up to 50% better CPU performance, 60-70% better GPU performance, better RAM, larger SSD. You can get a grey market Windows license for <£10 It's still probably better to buy and build though - paying off the same amount on a credit card will cost you less than financing though any of these places. The cost savings vs a pre-built will let you get much better QOL improvements, such as a workable SSD size and come under budget. Khablam fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 16:00
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