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If this is all just a joke, it's one of those which ends in, "The Aristocrats!", isn't it?
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Oct 25, 2018 15:53
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GimpInBlack posted:And lest anyone think this is subtext or an exaggeration:  Did they reanimate the corpse of H.P. Lovecraft and have him write the bestiary?
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Oct 25, 2018 15:54
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what in the gently caress
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Oct 25, 2018 15:55
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Yeah guys it's all a joke it's not gatekeeping at all, it's just that if you don't understand that it's a joke then you shouldn't play he game also black people are literal subhumans who care only about sex and need to be controlled by a more intelligent white man.
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Oct 25, 2018 16:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:for what it's worth, personally I did stay away from reading/engaging with DCC for a long time specifically because that opening spiel made it sound like I wasn't aware enough of old-school games or embracing enough of the weird dice mechanics to be "worthy", and I doubt that I'm the only one who felt like it I cut my teeth on BECMI. My first AD&D modules were an original printing of the Slave Lords quartet. I read that introduction and said, 'This is the kind of cringeworthy asshat that I never actually want to meet in real life, let alone sit next to at a gaming table.'
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Oct 25, 2018 16:11
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Does DCC have a Heart if Darkness adventure module? I know nothing about the series but it sounds like it would have one. Maybe it’ll be like The Skeletons where you kinda reflect on life and the nature of death like the long soliloquy in the short story
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Oct 25, 2018 16:12
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In my DCC game when I used subhumans since they weren't specifically described, they had orange skin and blonde hair
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Oct 25, 2018 16:28
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:Guys, it's a joke, reacting this angrily to a joke...what do I even need to say? I've been playing D&D since 1982. I know all the stuff they're mentioning, and cut my teeth on Moldvay Basic mixed liberally with AD&D. I know all that poo poo, and still love oldschool D&D, and yet I still found it absurd and cringey. And if it's supposed to gatekeep, it worked - I did, indeed, give the entire game line a pass for the first few years it was out. It turns out it's a pretty awesome game! Good! But it's groggy as all get-out, and much like it's hard to fault people for giving SotDL* a pass for its body horror, I can't fault people for passing over DCC for its editorial attitude. * Another game I love, btw.
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Oct 25, 2018 16:29
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alg posted:In my DCC game when I used subhumans since they weren't specifically described, they had orange skin and blonde hair that must be so wonderful for you
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Oct 25, 2018 16:37
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Piell posted:The intro is some dumb bullshit full of OSR/grognard signifiers. Wheter or not this was meant as a joke it barely even matters. Even if a newbie picked up that this was meant to be a joke, they're going to look at that list of esotheric names and references and go "This is clearly something that requires a cultural background that I lack" and go on to play something else. e:hahahha holy poo poo that subhuman thing paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Oct 25, 2018 |
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Oct 25, 2018 17:07
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paradoxGentleman posted:e:hahahha holy poo poo that subhuman thing
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Oct 25, 2018 17:26
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I just want to clarify, jokes absolutely can he and often function as gatekeeping and that was the point of my post, lest anyone imagine I at all agreed with Dice on this. Nobody could possibly pick up that book who isn't already deep into TTRPG context and know that it's a joke. There is nothing about it that shouts 'this is a silly clown opinion' other than that it is supposedly absurd when you have more context, and even then, it reads like one of those jokes that is really actually not a joke at all, but they don't want to be called out over it. Ironic distance isn't actually the same as openness.
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Oct 25, 2018 18:40
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Joe Slowboat posted:I just want to clarify, jokes absolutely can he and often function as gatekeeping and that was the point of my post, lest anyone imagine I at all agreed with Dice on this. I more wanted to build on your point because of how often "it's a joke!" is used as a defense. When of course we recognize that it's a joke, it's the fact that it's also other things that's a problem.
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Oct 25, 2018 18:47
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No worries, I just realized that I ought to specify my position directly rather than in the form of a joke, ironically enough.
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Oct 25, 2018 18:53
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drat I really like the rules but I won't pretend the essay isn't dumb as hell, and the subhumans thing is indefensible
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Oct 25, 2018 19:06
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Nothing can be done I guess! *keeps supporting racists with money*
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Oct 25, 2018 19:15
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ravenkult posted:Nothing can be done I guess! *keeps supporting racists with money* Well, unless Lowtax ever decides to apologize for using the n-word in his podcasts, I guess I might as well give everyone else the same free pass too. 
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Oct 25, 2018 20:07
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ravenkult posted:Nothing can be done I guess! *keeps supporting racists with money* The only choice we have is either to starve them out or join them....drat
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Oct 25, 2018 20:29
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ravenkult posted:Nothing can be done I guess! *keeps supporting racists with money* That's not what I said or intend to do. At all.
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Oct 25, 2018 21:09
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Hey, it's been almost a year since Green Ronin promised that they'd produce a timeline that would completely and satisfactorily explain how they managed to keep a creeplord predator on staff and bury any and all complaints about him and his behavior despite being 100% committed to providing a safe space for marginalized and abused people and 100% believing victims. Huh.
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Oct 25, 2018 21:59
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I don't know how effective it will be, but they have an Ennie Award survey up: http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/ennie-award-survey/?fbclid=IwAR2Jzy_bfsuUAWIa37Wc6H873eUOQUvXJOQpaiWM7mCJgGa0KQH--dnIWoI
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Oct 25, 2018 22:24
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FMguru posted:Hey, it's been almost a year since Green Ronin promised that they'd produce a timeline that would completely and satisfactorily explain how they managed to keep a creeplord predator on staff and bury any and all complaints about him and his behavior despite being 100% committed to providing a safe space for marginalized and abused people and 100% believing victims. The wha buh? More context is needed for those of us who weren't paying attention a year ago.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:21
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:The wha buh? More context is needed for those of us who weren't paying attention a year ago. Remember the thing with CA Suleiman? How he was revealed to be this giant harassing douchebag? Wrote in his 'apology' letter that he couldn't help himself because he was so darn erotic and had eyes that blazed with an intensity some found alarming? Well, he was doing that sort of stuff while working for Green Ronin and Green Ronin went to the wall to defend him and when they couldn't pretend the accusations weren't true any longer they said they'd come up with a timeline that would absolve them of all blame. And it's been a year. No timeline.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:34
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FMguru posted:Hey, it's been almost a year since Green Ronin promised that they'd produce a timeline that would completely and satisfactorily explain how they managed to keep a creeplord predator on staff and bury any and all complaints about him and his behavior despite being 100% committed to providing a safe space for marginalized and abused people and 100% believing victims. Dang! Has it really been almost a whole year? That seemed like not that long ago. (or at least, talking about it didn't seem that long ago Also, yikes to that pretentious introduction thing, double yikes to the magic afro thing and triple yikes to the "subhuman" thing. I found the first at least somewhat humorous in a "ha that's so cluelessly dumb" way. The others not so much.
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Oct 26, 2018 03:16
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FMguru posted:Hey, it's been almost a year since Green Ronin promised that they'd produce a timeline that would completely and satisfactorily explain how they managed to keep a creeplord predator on staff and bury any and all complaints about him and his behavior despite being 100% committed to providing a safe space for marginalized and abused people and 100% believing victims. It seems like that got dropped in favor of whatever this blog post is about : https://greenronin.com/blog/2018/03/13/ronin-roundtable-whisper-networks-and-internet-justice/ They made up this harassment policy: https://greenronin.com/stop-harassment-standards-terms-other-practices/ Which, if followed to the letter, would've absolved them of any fault because the CA Suleiman incident didn't follow any of these standard steps.
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Oct 26, 2018 03:26
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It's worth noting that the first Hackmaster did essentially the same "hardmode grog game" bit, but in an over the top, fun way. It was legally obligated to be a parody, which I think did more to help the humor and tone than anything else. For example, all its hero-worship is directed goes to a fictional games designer instead of Gygax, which has the (unintended?) result of illustrating how dumb it looks. You end up with an OSR product that laughs at itself instead of at more popular / contemporary games. Instead of elitism, it's self deprecating humor, and it works better.
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Oct 26, 2018 13:02
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Yea Hackmaster did parody way better by dressing up their genuinely solid old school D&D clone with just obviously over the top jokes that all kinda loop around to an elbow nudging 'get it, we're all in on the joke here, we're just dorks having fun' tone. Like, Hackmaster was the butt of the jokes more than the audience was because that's how those jokes work best, it was one big winky 'see we're using overwrought language and smugness to talk about our fictional creator who's a parody of us but we're clearly big nerds being stupid' thing not 'KNEEL BEFORE THE ALTAR OF GYGAX, SWINE"
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Oct 26, 2018 15:56
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The DCC approach is exactly the same kind of unsatire that PC Master Race is.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:29
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sexpig by night posted:Yea Hackmaster did parody way better by dressing up their genuinely solid old school D&D clone with just obviously over the top jokes that all kinda loop around to an elbow nudging 'get it, we're all in on the joke here, we're just dorks having fun' tone. Like, Hackmaster was the butt of the jokes more than the audience was because that's how those jokes work best, it was one big winky 'see we're using overwrought language and smugness to talk about our fictional creator who's a parody of us but we're clearly big nerds being stupid' thing not 'KNEEL BEFORE THE ALTAR OF GYGAX, SWINE" The real-game-for-real-gamers stuff was very much haha-only-serious. But yeah, HM succeeded by taking the piss out of itself, rather than out of the audience.
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Oct 26, 2018 21:24
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Is there anybody who played/liked Hackmaster that wasn't already a KODT fan?
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Oct 27, 2018 03:40
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Pope Guilty posted:Is there anybody who played/liked Hackmaster that wasn't already a KODT fan? I've never run it, but I really want to, and my exposure has largely been just the books themselves and AlphaDog's war stories
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Oct 27, 2018 04:13
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Pope Guilty posted:Is there anybody who played/liked Hackmaster that wasn't already a KODT fan? Yeah, a few of my friends who never even read the comic but played the game. Me too, kinda. I didn't hate the strip but I'd mostly read it and go "heh" and move on. The portable hole saga was pretty great though. The game itself isn't really as over the top as the comic, but the tools are there to make it like that if the group wants it to be. I mean to get most of the strips to happen you need a Brian type, and I dunno about you but gaming with that kind of person can be really awful.
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Oct 27, 2018 04:40
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Pope Guilty posted:Is there anybody who played/liked Hackmaster that wasn't already a KODT fan? Old Hackmaster is a blast to read and consider as a sort of alternate universe third edition where TSR just went insane instead of bankrupt. Despite being a parody the entire game works (better than actual 3.0, by some accounts) and if I ever wanted to run anything with an "old school feel" I'd use it.
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Oct 27, 2018 19:36
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I played it and never really read the comics, but I mainly used it as a set of fun rules and tables to add into normal AD&D character creation. Particularly the life path stuff from the class splatbooks.
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Oct 27, 2018 19:44
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Hackmaster 4E was great. I never really paid attention to Hackmaster 5E because it seemed to lose a lot of the wink-wink-nudge-nudge absurdity that kept me reading through the books for the next instance of wacko poo poo like pixie-fairy cannibalism.
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Oct 27, 2018 20:39
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yea 4e Hackmaster is a genuinely good game with good fluff and all. I also didn't gently caress with 5e much for the same reason but it seems fine too
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Oct 27, 2018 22:47
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If you play with a group that enjoys old old mechanics and the idea of dungeon crawling with some seriously overdone rules, it’s a fun game to play. Like you would understand the ridiculousness of it. Hackmaster 4e is personally my favorite rpg to run. 5e has really interesting combat mechanics that feel pretty simulationist. Again, it’s all on the tin so if you don’t like dnd that isn’t 4th edition you probably won’t like this. It seems to me the ideal way to run is to have the group play a bunch of blue collar jobbers clearing dungeons for loot that is extremely ackward to carry, hard to sell, etc, so it has a specific niche in that I’ve seen it run a lot as an “rear end in a top hat treasure recovery logistics simulator”
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Oct 27, 2018 23:03
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probably one of my favorite simple hackmaster things was when a oneshot basic 'a dragon keeps his hoard in this dungeon, kill him and take it' thing but at the end we found he had melted all his gold and gems and such into one giant statue of himself, that he kept at the bottom of this mine-turned-dungeon. It was a genuinely really funny 'well the statue IS worth a poo poo ton if you can get it out and take it to the capital or somewhere else that can afford it' moment that wound up jumping off to a proper campaign.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:13
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sexpig by night posted:probably one of my favorite simple hackmaster things was when a oneshot basic 'a dragon keeps his hoard in this dungeon, kill him and take it' thing but at the end we found he had melted all his gold and gems and such into one giant statue of himself, that he kept at the bottom of this mine-turned-dungeon. It was a genuinely really funny 'well the statue IS worth a poo poo ton if you can get it out and take it to the capital or somewhere else that can afford it' moment that wound up jumping off to a proper campaign. I think my solution would be "what was once melted down can be melted back up". Loses the artistic value, but lumps of gold and gems in easy to carry chunks still sells.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:29
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Bruceski posted:I think my solution would be "what was once melted down can be melted back up". Loses the artistic value, but lumps of gold and gems in easy to carry chunks still sells. you probably have a better idea than 'hook up a poo poo load of ropes and heavy horses to it after we blast a hole in the roof' but minus points for no sense of style.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:32
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