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i'm sure this brutal terror attack will be all over the Western news just like Palestinian stone-throwing is https://mobile.twitter.com/JacobMagid/status/1051034371052986369 https://mobile.twitter.com/JacobMagid/status/1051175157623087105 i especially like how two or three other violent attacks are described right in that same article quote:Just hours after the burial Saturday afternoon, a Yesh Din field worker filmed a half a dozen of Israelis hurling stones at a pair of Palestinians working their fields in between the northern West Bank villages of Burin and Hawara. Dressed in traditional white sabbath garb, the settlers could be seen gathering the olives that the farmers were in the middle of cultivating before they fled to safety. this kind of low-level violence and abuse takes place on practically a daily basis in the West Bank https://mobile.twitter.com/JacobMagid/status/1050012622299557888
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Oct 14, 2018 15:53
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"Price tag" attacks? Like, accusing Israelis of pricing their morality too cheaply? Is it a slang for something else? I do not understand.
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Oct 14, 2018 22:49
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Tubgoat posted:"Price tag" attacks? Like, accusing Israelis of pricing their morality too cheaply? Is it a slang for something else? I do not understand. reprisals for actions commited by other palestinians. think lynching but they arent even pretending you are the one who did it
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Oct 14, 2018 22:57
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pricetag is settler violence. it refers to paying back the arabs for their perceived crimes and ranges from property damage to murder
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Oct 14, 2018 23:31
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Real hurthling! posted:pricetag is settler violence. it refers to paying back the arabs for their perceived crimes and ranges from property damage to murder seems like there's only one thing on their mind...
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Oct 15, 2018 00:17
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Ha, wow. Who came up with that euphamism for "random violence justified as blood feud?"
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Oct 15, 2018 00:19
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Tubgoat posted:"Price tag" attacks? Like, accusing Israelis of pricing their morality too cheaply? Is it a slang for something else? I do not understand. It's terror attacks against not only Palestinians but Israelis as well, committed by radical Israeli settlers determined to make both societies "pay the price" for policy moves they consider to be unfriendly to the settlers. The idea is to threaten that any pro-Palestinian move by either side will be followed by a spree of revenge attacks by the settlers, and thus the side that made that move will "pay the price" in violence and vandalism. While the vast majority of price tag attacks are aimed at Palestinians and other Arabs, Israeli Jews are occasionally targeted as well - for example, IDF soldiers or property are occasionally attacked in the aftermath of a settlement-demolishing. Tubgoat posted:Ha, wow. Who came up with that euphamism for "random violence justified as blood feud?" The attackers themselves. "Price tag" would sometimes be graffitied near the attack site, particularly in vandalism-type attacks.
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Oct 15, 2018 00:33
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How come the Zionists have to graffiti "price tag" over their revenge killings like is a Nazi running the simulation over there or whatup it's a little too on the nose
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Oct 17, 2018 05:32
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Moridin920 posted:How come the Zionists have to graffiti "price tag" over their revenge killings like is a Nazi running the simulation over there or whatup it's a little too on the nose Irony is lost on fascists.
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Oct 17, 2018 09:20
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Irony is lost on fascists. "Irony" doesn't mean anything to fascists because they're constantly acting in bad faith. You can try to point this stuff out to them but they know it already, because internally they understand that all they're doing is self-servicing.
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Oct 17, 2018 13:33
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sir you shot two palestinian kids you only get to kill one ah... but you see... i have a two-for-one teenager coupon, yes, its expired, but only by a few days...
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Oct 17, 2018 16:30
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Moridin920 posted:How come the Zionists have to graffiti "price tag" over their revenge killings like is a Nazi running the simulation over there or whatup it's a little too on the nose the only problem they have with the Nazis is that Jews were one of the groups Hitler targeted they're more than happy to emulate the Nazis in other ways like, you'd think Holocaust survivors would have come away with the lesson "genocide is bad", but for a lot of them, "never again" meant "never let this kind of thing happen to Jews again" rather than "never let this kind of thing happen ever again". though there's also a big class angle. the Israeli political class largely isn't drawn from Holocaust survivors or their descendants - they're drawn from the families who emigrated to Israel well before Hitler came to power and got active in Zionist separatism. the defining experiences of their family Zionism were the ethnic conflicts in Mandatory Palestine in the 1920s, not the horrors of Europe under the Third Reich. hell, some of them tried to ally with Nazi Germany during the loving Holocaust. and because they emigrated voluntarily rather than as refugees, they were often wealthier, more educated, and better-connected than later waves of Jewish immigrants. Netanyahu's father arrived in Palestine in 1920, and besides being an academic, was also a leading member of the militant right-wing Zionist movement that founded Irgun. as a prolific fundraiser, he often traveled between the US and Palestine soliciting funds and support, and after Israeli independence, he moved to America for a while to raise his sons there in general, Israel's class structure is still pretty divided by where people came there from and when. as an observer reading about it from afar, here's my impression of the general class structure from top to bottom: 1) people who immigrated to Palestine from the mid 1910s to the late-1920s were well-off enough that they could afford to uproot their entire lives and move to Palestine just on the basis of vague nationalist ambitions. they were often well-educated. they and their descendants formed the core of the Israeli elite classes for a long time after independence 2) American Jews, who were insulated from pretty much all the European chaos of the 20th century, were able to benefit from America's general prosperity, and generally migrated voluntarily for nationalist ideals rather than safety or economic gain. like group #1, they were usually well-off and decently educated. this group also contributed a lot to funding the migration of other groups, and were often involved with Zionism for some time before they migrated 3) pre-WWI migrants. they were typically pretty poor, but they had financial support from early Zionist thinkers and often held socialist ideals which led to the establishment of the kibbutzim. they'd had plenty of time to establish themselves by the time of Israel independence and had largely integrated with groups #1 and #2, thanks in part to shared Zionist ideals and communal settlements 4 or 5) Soviet Jews who came voluntarily were well-educated and not terribly poor, but they weren't especially rich either. however, because they came relatively late in Israel's history (mostly in the 90s) they faced a lot of integration difficulties. Israel, which was prosperous by that time, was somewhat less welcoming to large waves of foreign migrants and less desperate for manpower, and many Soviet Jews found that their education and qualifications weren't recognized by Israeli institutions, leading to heavy underemployment. they were also a lot more secular and a lot less Zionist than the other waves, so they stuck out like a sore thumb in Israeli political and ended up forming their own parties to get some representation. though they're not really interested in the settler projects, they tend to prefer right-leaning politics and a strong security state 4 or 5) European Jews during and after WWII tended to have lost their property and prosperity, but they got a fair amount of support from Israeli and American organizations and from various Holocaust reparations, and arrived early enough to benefit from Israel's initial rise to economic prosperity. their descendants are usually pretty integrated 6) Mizrahi Jews who came from various Middle Eastern and African countries, often involuntarily. they often lost their money and property, and they arrived in a country that was dominated by European Jews, which led to a lot of cultural and political friction. additionally, Israel was already struggling to accomodate and integrate the massive number of poor European Jews who arrived in the wake of WWII; adding Middle Eastern Jews on top of that was too much for the system, and the Mizrahi usually got the short end of the stick. in addition, they faced discrimination and even racial segregation at the hands of the European Ashkenazi Jews who dominated Israeli institutions, and are still heavily economically disadvantaged even today. there's a huge wage gap and openly-expressed racism 7) African Jews, well...just take everything I said about the Mizrahi, multiply it by five, and then set it in the 1990s so the Israeli state doesn't even have the excuse of economic problems and an overburdened refugee system to fall back on. they're Jewish enough for the Law of Return, but face blatant racial discrimination 8) and then of course at the very bottom there's Palestinians and non-Jewish migrant workers, who fulfill the usual "permanent underclass to do low-class manual labor for minimal wages" niche Main Paineframe has issued a correction as of 18:35 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 17:50
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This is a good effing post. Holy hell. I haven't seen people talk about the separate classes of the Jewish State of Israel and their origins outside of academia. It's one of those things people don't like to talk about because of all the implications. I really appreciate the Mizrahi and African discussion because they, surprisingly, make up large portions of Netanyahu's support. Even though their rights would be better represented by a left coalition (one that focuses on economic betterment, ending of settlements or full citizenship for Palestinians allowing for more wealth equality, etc) they vote for the nationalist who screams about elites while being one of them himself. There is a massive anger against the European Jews because of their elitism and "leftist" ideals (which are, as discussed earlier, not really leftist but liberal economics that believes racism is bad). I think the problem is that people don't like to talk about it as much because it can easily lead to anti-semitism, but a good way around that is to focus on the domination of early European Jewish settlers and wealthy for decades that is the real issue as you allude to. Much of this really can be attributed to the rich wanting to be richer while the underclass is being manipulated to hate the Palestinians because it benefits the wealthy much like how the Irish were turned against African Americans during reconstruction. Where it's getting really interesting is the wealthy are realizing they need to start appealing to the Mizrahi because they're losing numbers since Likud has become extremely popular with them. But there is so much bad blood at this point (thanks to Bibi), they can't appeal. Oh, and of course racism. Many Mizrahi already feel oppressed but feel they have a savior and like to scapegoat Palestinians so they don't have to look inward. I know I'm speaking generally, and I'm trying to be careful, but it's difficult because of how the numbers stack up. It's not all of any group, of course, but it's counterintuitive until you understand the context of the situation there. Anyway, thanks for the great post. E: For more context: https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-ethnic-tensions-helped-fuel-netanyahus-victory/
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Oct 17, 2018 18:24
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israel is bombing gaza again today
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Oct 17, 2018 18:29
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You don't understandquote:In recent weeks, the Palestinians have also resumed flying incendiary balloons from Gaza, some rigged with small explosive devices and others designed to set fires in Israel. look at these advanced terrorist technologies the Israelis have to defend themselves against Balloons, but on fire.
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Oct 17, 2018 22:41
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it's because an Israeli house was hit by a single Palestinian rocket. no one was hurt, but the political impact is significant i also suspect that the administration is being extra loud about their response as a way of distracting from various politically-inconvenient angles they don't want the media digging into. for example, early coverage of the rocket tended to prominently note the fact that the Netanyahu administration was in the midst of Egyptian-brokered negotiations with Hamas, which embarrasses Bibi. they're also probably pretty uncomfortable about the fact that Iron Dome didn't shoot that rocket down. they've already publicly announced that they're gonna place an Iron Dome battery in the area that was hit - but a quick Google shows there's been batteries there for years
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Oct 18, 2018 00:21
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Main Paineframe posted:it's because an Israeli house was hit by a single Palestinian rocket. no one was hurt, but the political impact is significant Speaking of which, did anything happen with the investigation into Bibi's corruption or was that put on permanent hold?
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Oct 18, 2018 00:24
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Iron dome is fail in general
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Oct 18, 2018 00:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Speaking of which, did anything happen with the investigation into Bibi's corruption or was that put on permanent hold?
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Oct 18, 2018 03:10
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https://mobile.twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/1053299642488836096
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Oct 19, 2018 16:32
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twitter trolling has a lucrative career path in government
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Oct 19, 2018 16:38
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Main Paineframe posted:shamelessly reposting this from the D&D thread because holy poo poo Much like how Israel has been erased from the map on numerous occasions already
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Oct 19, 2018 16:50
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97 more to go (or 92 if you like)
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Oct 19, 2018 16:50
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Could someone please link to any source at all that coherently defends the Israeli foreign policy? Or even that suggests the current governments approach could potentially be stalled from within the country? Because I'm straw-that-broke-the-camels-backing here hard. I never wanted to be a DTI guy but I can't see any way to maintain having a shred of morality and not be dti.
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Oct 19, 2018 21:07
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Main Paineframe posted:shamelessly reposting this from the D&D thread because holy poo poo 
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Oct 19, 2018 22:02
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Vitamin P posted:Could someone please link to any source at all that coherently defends the Israeli foreign policy? Or even that suggests the current governments approach could potentially be stalled from within the country? lmao
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Oct 19, 2018 22:35
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Vitamin P posted:Could someone please link to any source at all that coherently defends the Israeli foreign policy? Or even that suggests the current governments approach could potentially be stalled from within the country? lmao, you're breaking now? far more palestinian children were killed by israel this year than israeli children were ever killed by terrorism they hit that threshold in like may.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:38
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the only defense is ignoring all harm caused to whine about security. all defenses boil down to that because they are fully and actually in violation of international law and peace plans they signed on to as part of an ongoing creeping genocide
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Oct 19, 2018 22:39
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i've got family who live in israel and i still post DTI all the time lol
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Oct 19, 2018 22:45
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Vitamin P posted:Could someone please link to any source at all that coherently defends the Israeli foreign policy? Or even that suggests the current governments approach could potentially be stalled from within the country? It's probably the only thing holding the country together, because Israeli society is extremely factionalized and divided, and the only shred of political unity any of those groups share is that they hate Arabs slightly more than they hate each other. Israel has a history of letting radical groups go completely unpunished for the sake of political convenience, so those radical groups have just gotten more and more extreme as they've gotten used to being catered to by the government. Probably the tipping point was when Netanyahu held a rally where the crowd chanted "Death to Rabin!", and then Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a right-winger, and then everyone pretended it was just a random lone-wolf and that there was no deeper problem of right-wing terrorism to address. And then a few months later, they made Netanyahu the next Prime Minister.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:58
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Main Paineframe posted:It's probably the only thing holding the country together, because Israeli society is extremely factionalized and divided, and the only shred of political unity any of those groups share is that they hate Arabs slightly more than they hate each other. Israel has a history of letting radical groups go completely unpunished for the sake of political convenience, so those radical groups have just gotten more and more extreme as they've gotten used to being catered to by the government. Israel is basically future state USA especially the whole not giving extremists any sort of punishment.
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Oct 20, 2018 01:19
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Vitamin P posted:Could someone please link to any source at all that coherently defends the Israeli foreign policy? Or even that suggests the current governments approach could potentially be stalled from within the country? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2sstzXukRQ
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Oct 20, 2018 03:11
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Oct 22, 2018 21:01
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https://www.jpost.com//Opinion/Battling-Corbyn-Israels-main-British-enemy-569918quote:BATTLING CORBYN, ISRAEL’S MAIN BRITISH ENEMY
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Oct 22, 2018 21:19
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https://twitter.com/LalehKhalili/status/1054833479937126400
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Oct 24, 2018 12:09
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a literal David using a sling to fight Goliath
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Oct 24, 2018 13:57
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I hope this one works out like the bible story and not how science says it should've.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:13
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Israeli responses on the synagogue shooting so far, by party: Likud: quote:“The entire people of Israel grieve with the families of the dead,” Netanyahu said in a video message. “We stand together with the Jewish community of Pittsburgh. We stand together with the American people in the face of this horrendous antisemitic brutality and we all pray for the speedy recovery of the wounded.” Jewish Home: quote:Diaspora Affairs Minister Naftali Bennett said in a statement that “the State of Israel is deeply pained by this terrible antisemitic murder. Our Jewish brothers and sisters came under a murderous attack while at prayer. Our hearts go out to the families of those killed, and we pray for the swift recovery of the injured, as we pray this is the last such event. Jewish blood is not free.” Zionist Union: quote:“A person who opens fire in a synagogue does not attack Reform, Conservative, Orthodox or ultra-Orthodox Jews. He attacks all the Jews. We all hurt tonight,” he said in a tweet. Yesh Atid: quote:Yesh Atid chair Yair Lapid said that the victims were “good Jews who love Israel and who for years the Israeli government has been saying are not really Jewish among us,” referring to laws in Israel that do not recognize conversions by those communities. looks like someone didn't get the unity and friendship memo
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Oct 28, 2018 00:18
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Holey moley
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Oct 28, 2018 03:09
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Main Paineframe posted:Israeli responses on the synagogue shooting so far, by party: You think this will make them less likely to buddy buddy with right wingers? Probably not.
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Oct 28, 2018 09:12
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