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Powered Descent posted:I just want to say that Kirby Howell-Baptiste (Simone) did an amazing job portraying Eleanor In Virtual Simone's Body, and then Eleanor Pretending To Be Janet In Virtual Simone's Body. The bit went by very quickly but she channeled Eleanor perfectly. Definitely. My ears did a double-take because I thought there was dubbing going on.
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Oct 27, 2018 19:34
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Wylie posted:"French Pressing Nemo" is a good name for an Australian coffee shop, sure, but I feel they completely whiffed on the opportunity for "Grinding Nemo." That's obviously the name of a Sydney night- and/or strip-club.
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Oct 27, 2018 20:41
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Powered Descent posted:I just want to say that Kirby Howell-Baptiste (Simone) did an amazing job portraying Eleanor In Virtual Simone's Body, and then Eleanor Pretending To Be Janet In Virtual Simone's Body. The bit went by very quickly but she channeled Eleanor perfectly. Yeah that was crazy good. You could literally believe it was Eleanor telepathically controlling her, sublime acting.
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Oct 27, 2018 21:36
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I laughed a lot harder than I should have at Randy Savage Non-International Airport
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Oct 27, 2018 22:19
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Phenotype posted:So maybe it's been a double bluff by Michael this whole time? "Oh no, now that you know you can't be saved your motivations are corrupt" - "Now that they think they can't be saved all the good they're doing can't have corrupt motivations"? If anyone is pulling this, it is Eleanor. She comes in with the idea.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:30
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Android Blues posted:Yeah that was crazy good. You could literally believe it was Eleanor telepathically controlling her, sublime acting. It kind of reminds me of the Red Dwarf episode when Lister and Rimmer swap bodies - Craig Charles (Lister) does a pretty good job of being Rimmer-in-Listers-Body, but Chris Barrie (Rimmer) absolutely nails all the tiny mannerisms of Lister-in-Rimmer's-Body.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:50
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Caros posted:If anyone is pulling this, it is Eleanor. She comes in with the idea. But if Eleanor knows it, then that means she's still hosed even if everyone else is alright. Unless she's thought of that, because then she'd think she was doomed and yet choose to do good anyway. But if that's occurred to her, then she would be doomed again. Unless...
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Oct 28, 2018 00:38
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Otherkinsey Scale posted:But if Eleanor knows it, then that means she's still hosed even if everyone else is alright. Unless knowingly dooming herself to save her friends gives her enough Good Place points to not be doomed. Unless that very thought occurs to her, in which case...
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Oct 28, 2018 00:50
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Unless she's just doing good because it felt nice to make a man and his talentless daughter happy.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:53
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Great episode. The best moment was when Donkey Doug thinks Pillboi is arriving at the robbery, but it's actually Jason, who chooses to clarify who he is by saying he's actually "Pillboi's friend, Jason" rather than "your son" / "dad it's me".
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Oct 28, 2018 06:46
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The weird thing about knowing about the Good Place meaning your good deeds don't count is that billions of people believe in the Good Place. They very sincerely believe that helping the poor etc will result in them going to Heaven and if they don't do those things they will go to the Bad Place and in the absence of their sincere belief in an afterlife they probably would not do those things. The idea that your good deeds are balanced against bad deeds isn't at all revolutionary, e.g. the ancient Egyptian belief that Maat weighs your soul's heart against the feather of truth and if it is lighter you go to paradise and if it is heavier you are eaten.
Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 07:36
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Gobbeldygook posted:The weird thing about knowing about the Good Place meaning your good deeds don't count is that billions of people believe in the Good Place. They very sincerely believe that helping the poor etc will result in them going to Heaven and if they don't do those things they will go to the Bad Place and in the absence of their sincere belief in an afterlife they probably would not do those things. The idea that your good deeds are balanced against bad deeds isn't at all revolutionary, e.g. the ancient Egyptian belief that Maat weighs your soul's heart against the feather of truth and if it was lighter you went to paradise and if it was heavier you were eaten. we are not given an indication that very many people end up in the Good Place
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Oct 28, 2018 07:44
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:we are not given an indication that very many people end up in the Good Place Really, if you look at it, the Original Sin is selfishness. No wonder nobody gets in.
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Oct 28, 2018 07:52
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I think the most solid sign that the whole judgement system is broken is the fact that these four people shouldn't ever have ended up in the same place to begin with. There's two basic questions at play, and each character represents one of the extreme answers. Question 1: Which matters, intent or results? Chidi has devoted his entire life, every waking moment, to the pursuit of being the most ethical person he can be, and purely because he sees it as the right thing to do... But his indecision has stopped him from doing anything useful with that. Good intent, bad result. Damned. Tahani has spent her life working with charities, raising money to help the needy, and bringing attention to social and environmental issues. She's probably actually helped millions of people in at least some way... But she did all of it for the attention, and in an effort to spite her Sister. Bad intent, good result. Damned. Question 2: Do you need to be aware of how your actions affect the world and people around you for it to count as a truly "bad" act? Jason does bad poo poo constantly, maybe even by Floridian standards, but is utterly oblivious to the very concept of consequences. He's a total sweetheart when it comes to the few personal situations that he actually comprehends, which shows that he does care. Damned. Elanor has spent her life fully aware of how much she hurts everyone she comes in contact with, and simply did not give a poo poo. She's always first to label herself as a trash-bag, no delusion to the contrary. Of the four, she's the one who doesn't even bother questioning why she's in the Bad Place. Damned. It would feel like finding a balance right in the middle of those extremes would be the only way into the Good Place, but Mindy St. Claire is our closest (and only) example of that, and she confused the system badly enough that they had to make her an entirely new place. LORD OF BOOTY posted:we are not given an indication that very many people end up in the Good Place Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 07:58
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Robot Hobo posted:
The existence of the Good Place Janet warehouse argues against this, not that such a minor detail is a definite argument. I tend toward the “The Good Place exists but it sucks” theory.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:09
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Robot Hobo posted:So far we only have the word of demons and a couple neutral entities to go on that the good place even exists. We've yet to see the place, or anyone actually from there, and as far as we know none of these beings has actually been there to see for themselves. The very existence of a Good Place could just be the celestial equivalent of an urban legend.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:10
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This may have been discussed already but one of the biggest flaws of the system seems to be that given the maximum point total is all that matters, people who live shorter lives are vastly disadvantaged in that they have less time to earn points. There’s literally zero chance for a baby or young child who dies early to get into the Good Place because they don’t have the time or ability to rack up enough points.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:21
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After watching the first two seasons I'm convinced that the Good Place does exist, but it's not a reward so much as it's a filter. We know that only a small fraction of humans end up in the good place because the system makes it difficult to get there. What would the point of a afterlife that only rewards the best of the best of the best people while condemning people who (for example) were great but had selfish motives. My horrible fanfic theory is that supremely good people somehow throw a wrench in the works of the afterlife and the Good Place was created to isolate those people from the system. Or it's just a supremely lovely system set up by beings who fundamentally don't understand humans at all and are incapable of holding things to anything but the highest standard.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:22
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Gobbeldygook posted:No, we also saw a representative from the Good Place in Mindy St. Clair's orientation video. "Our" Janet is the wildcard here, but Janets were presumably created by someone with an agenda of some sort. Who knows if her info is all good? Michael managed to get her to go along with his own lies in season one, so it's not like what she says must always be 100% factual. navyjack posted:The existence of the Good Place Janet warehouse argues against this, not that such a minor detail is a definite argument. I tend toward the “The Good Place exists but it sucks” theory. Honestly, I'm also expecting a reveal that the Good Place exists, but isn't as great as advertised. Or is nearly empty. But the alternative seems plausible too.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:39
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I'm concerned that we have yet to see a single alien in the afterlife.
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Oct 28, 2018 09:45
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Chidi should have been bi.
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Oct 28, 2018 12:11
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navyjack posted:The existence of the Good Place Janet warehouse argues against this, not that such a minor detail is a definite argument. I tend toward the “The Good Place exists but it sucks” theory. Buy maybe they boxed all the Good Place Janets as it turned out they weren't needed, so that's why they have a warehouse of em left.
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Oct 28, 2018 12:38
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I think the Good Place is just stringent enough that you need to have good intentions paired with good deeds, which is why both Chidi and Tahani are damned without contradiction. It's not that one or the other is more important, just that you need a combination of both.
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Oct 28, 2018 12:45
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8one6 posted:
This is always what I land on. I'll never discourage people from discussing things but a lot of Good Place discussion is centered around a system that doesn't work.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:04
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look, you just need to be inhuman to get into the good place. Argue posted:I'm concerned that we have yet to see a single alien in the afterlife. Well there you go. (though this does ignore  )
double nine fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 16:10
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Robot Hobo posted:Question 1: Which matters, intent or results? Not sure I understand why this question is dichotomous. Mindy St. Clair had good intentions, but she ended up in the Medium Place because the results were posthumous. Without examples of Good Place occupants, she’s evidence that you need intent and results in this system.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:55
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Wasn't the thing with Mindy more that she was a person obviously not fit for The Good Place, but her one act of legit goodness gained her enough points posthumously to offset her bad ones. The issue seemed to be more that she would likely have kept on living as a pretty trash person (as evidenced in when we see her) and that if she hadn't died so early she'd have erased all her credit back to Bad-Place level again?
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Oct 28, 2018 17:32
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Zedd posted:Wasn't the thing with Mindy more that she was a person obviously not fit for The Good Place, but her one act of legit goodness gained her enough points posthumously to offset her bad ones. The issue seemed to be more that she would likely have kept on living as a pretty trash person (as evidenced in when we see her) and that if she hadn't died so early she'd have erased all her credit back to Bad-Place level again? That isn't the issue at all. It's because she died on the way to do the good thing, someone else picked it up and carried it on for her. She had good intent & good action, but died before it could have been fully realised. The good result wouldn't have happened without her initial good action. Does she get the brownie points
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Oct 28, 2018 18:33
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Zedd posted:Wasn't the thing with Mindy more that she was a person obviously not fit for The Good Place, but her one act of legit goodness gained her enough points posthumously to offset her bad ones. The issue seemed to be more that she would likely have kept on living as a pretty trash person (as evidenced in when we see her) and that if she hadn't died so early she'd have erased all her credit back to Bad-Place level again? No the system doesn't engage in future speculation. The entire sticking point is whether she gets the credit for those points or not. I think this thread tends to go in circles on this issue because people have their pet theories about how things work but they don't always fit with what's actually presented on the show.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:50
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:That isn't the issue at all. It's because she died on the way to do the good thing, someone else picked it up and carried it on for her. She had good intent & good action, but died before it could have been fully realised. The good result wouldn't have happened without her initial good action. Does she get the brownie points 
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Oct 28, 2018 19:35
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Here's two angles I like:
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Oct 28, 2018 19:59
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Accretionist posted:Here's two angles I like: I've been playing around with idea; namely that the bad place immortals are actually humans and this is all a "second level" of life where the sadistic bastards just stay there but those who question the system eventually move up the ladder towards whatever level 3 is.
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Oct 28, 2018 20:17
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quote:I've been around for a long time. Like, all of it.
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Oct 28, 2018 20:51
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I liked when he first rebooted Janet - "Ok put in my birth year... 0000... ah, that's too easy to guess, I should change that..."
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Oct 28, 2018 22:27
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You know, there was one thing about this episode I thought it was missing and I was struggling to figure out what it was. And this Michael talk makes me realize I really wanted Michael to be gushing about a horrible airport experience.
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Oct 29, 2018 04:20
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Renaissance Spam posted:I've been playing around with idea; namely that the bad place immortals are actually humans and this is all a "second level" of life where the sadistic bastards just stay there but those who question the system eventually move up the ladder towards whatever level 3 is. I still keep coming back to the demons who insisted Chidi was someone they had worked with centuries earlier.
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Oct 29, 2018 04:49
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nerdman42 posted:I really wanted Michael to be gushing about a horrible airport experience. Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Oct 29, 2018 |
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Oct 29, 2018 05:17
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Michael seems to be over the phase where every human experience is fun and exciting. Which is fine since those jokes were never that funny to begin with, in my opinion.
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Oct 29, 2018 05:19
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Senor Tron posted:I still keep coming back to the demons who insisted Chidi was someone they had worked with centuries earlier. I think that was a “all black people look alike to douchebags” joke
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Oct 29, 2018 05:39
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Renaissance Spam posted:I've been playing around with idea; namely that the bad place immortals are actually humans and this is all a "second level" of life where the sadistic bastards just stay there but those who question the system eventually move up the ladder towards whatever level 3 is. This thought has occurred to me as well, so it's almost certainly incorrect. I thought it could be something like these people went to The Bad Place and were tortured for however many years, and at the end of the sentence they get to go to town on the new kids with all of their pent up aggression. We also know that The Bad Place has all kinds of dead end clerical jobs, which is its own kind of torture (the kind Michael went through).
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