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now, we see the violence inherent in the system edit: 400 was a big and scary ppm number
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Oct 27, 2018 18:50
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Global warming is a symptom of industrialized and technologically advanced civilization, not capitalism specifically. The 20th century socialist powers polluted as much (possibly more on a per capita basis in the USSR case) as the capitalist powers. Nor is the left anything like united in what to do about global warming - responses range from eco fascist esque to skepticism regarding the scale of the need for change and the damage it would do to third world nations. Capitalist systems are probably worse at reacting to the need for change than an imagined socialist state that decided to seriously transform it's economy, but we can still imagine something like a much more aggressive EU like social democratic government that might be able to effectively enact change on the scale needed. China is probably the most ideal existing system to take action both because of it's massive manufacturing/infrastructure capability and the centralized nature of economic and political power. Centralized power and elites that are aware and willing to take the steps necessary are probably more important than whatever category you place that nation/system in. TheNakedFantastic fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 23:38
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https://twitter.com/Ende__Gelaende/status/1056152219840643072?s=19
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Oct 27, 2018 23:42
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look at all those stupid rear end individuals
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Oct 27, 2018 23:42
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I can think of a lot of much more useful things that a group of people that large could have done than block a road for a day or two and get themselves arrested. Maybe something that would actually have made a difference. I wonder what it could be. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 27, 2018 23:48
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Tear up the railroad track?
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Oct 28, 2018 02:35
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That would certainly be better than what they actually did. No reason not to set your sights higher than that, though.
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Oct 28, 2018 02:37
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ChairMaster posted:I can think of a lot of much more useful things that a group of people that large could have done than block a road for a day or two and get themselves arrested. Maybe something that would actually have made a difference. Probably the same thing that got you a month's probation the last time you tried skirting the rules this way.
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Oct 28, 2018 04:10
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Hello Sailor posted:Probably the same thing that got you a month's probation the last time you tried skirting the rules this way. Indeed.
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Oct 28, 2018 04:15
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StabbinHobo posted:fighting or bitching Marx was a salty bitch, but his posting inspired political violence. Like chairmaster, a true hero of our planet Or will China save us all? Na, we're doomed, but no reason to sink into depression. Unless that's your thing, to each their own. I'm more of the sky diving if I'm dying type. Let's go all in on a mars colony
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Oct 28, 2018 06:05
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Epitope posted:People have been fighting capitalism for a lot longer than global warming's been a threat. But cheer up, maybe with nature's help Capital can finally be taken down. Welcome to my ideology. Edit: In all honesty, the Deep Adaptation article is an incredible read. Supplementing it, I'd like to share the blog post its author responded with following its failure to pass peer review: https://jembendell.wordpress.com/2018/07/26/the-study-on-collapse-they-thought-you-should-not-read-yet/ Sing Along fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 12:02
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Communism would cause less global warming than Capitalism because Communism is less economically efficient.
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Oct 28, 2018 12:40
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Eddy-Baby posted:now, we see the violence inherent in the system 350.org makes me laugh in a black comedy kinda way
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Oct 28, 2018 12:48
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Socks4Hands posted:Welcome to my ideology. I thought your ideology was the case for nuclear winter, recycled for the next generation's existential threat http://exiledonline.com/feature-story-the-case-for-nuclear-winter/ My ideology is space jizz. Let's pack a bunch of rockets with payloads of extreamophiles, and fire them at every celestial body we can possibly hit. Biological warfare with the stars? Or earth life reaching fruiting age? Depends on your angle
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Oct 28, 2018 15:20
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Socks4Hands posted:Welcome to my ideology. The Deep Adaptation paper (though it's not so much a paper as it is kind of a manifesto laying out what's wrong with our framing of climate change and our ability to do anything about, exhibited helpfully by many hopeful idiots in this thread) is fantastic. It really helped frame my own thoughts and feelings. No surprise at all it wasn't published.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:12
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Epitope posted:I thought your ideology was the case for nuclear winter, recycled for the next generation's existential threat That would sort of make sense if there were, say, a moon sized rock headed towards Earth that would 100% rip the planet into pieces and guarantee the extinction of all life, full stop. As things are, though, there is going to be a bountiful, vibrant world full of incredible diversity of life in just a few million years after our species snuffs itself out. The Earth, and life on it, will endure.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:14
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inshallah our great great grand children will feast on alligator meat in the rainforests of greenland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldLBoErAhz4 (our 8C past)
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Oct 28, 2018 16:19
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How are u posted:That would sort of make sense if there were, say, a moon sized rock headed towards Earth that would 100% rip the planet into pieces and guarantee the extinction of all life, full stop. As things are, though, there is going to be a bountiful, vibrant world full of incredible diversity of life in just a few million years after our species snuffs itself out. The Earth, and life on it, will endure. Sure, but will earth generate another space faring civilization? This might be a single flowering planet, we gotta seize the opportunity that's here
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Oct 28, 2018 16:25
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Epitope posted:Sure, but will earth generate another space faring civilization? This might be a single flowering planet, we gotta seize the opportunity that's here Who knows, but life 100% exists abundantly throughout the galaxy and the universe. It's no big deal.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:31
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OK, I am breaking the drat toxx because who the hell cares. I have seen this topic pervade other threads so more money for Lowtax's spine I guess.Socks4Hands posted:Welcome to my ideology. See, when faced with stuff like this, I see NO answers. I want to know exactly what am I supposed to do on my day to day life. I don't want to farm. I don't want to move to some small town with no power. All of m,y interests involve electricity. I don't care about animals, I don't care about nature. I care about discussing deep topics, but I am not willing to be some small town's librarian. People are consistently intimidated by the depth of the topics I like to talk about. What the hell am I supposed to DO then? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 28, 2018 16:42
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Build a giant hamster wheel and run on it to generate your own electricity in the coming climate apocalypse.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:45
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The vanguard needs demagogues, friend. Buy a mirror and level up your charisma. (Then eventually you can become the town crier, or maybe even a peddler who goes from settlement to settlement to bring the news)
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Oct 28, 2018 16:50
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AceOfFlames posted:What the hell am I supposed to DO then? You're supposed to live your fuckin life, dude. Enjoy however much time you've got left, regardless of whether it's one or ten or fifty years.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:53
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How are u posted:Who knows, but life 100% exists abundantly throughout the galaxy and the universe. It's no big deal. Life It's no big deal. Death It's no big deal. Success It's no big deal. Failure It's no big deal. War It's no big deal. Famine It's no big deal. Get with the program chumpus, find something that matters to you
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Oct 28, 2018 16:56
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AceOfFlames posted:OK, I am breaking the drat toxx because who the hell cares. I have seen this topic pervade other threads so more money for Lowtax's spine I guess. 
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Oct 28, 2018 16:59
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lol, wish we had a 'thank' button
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Oct 28, 2018 17:19
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Socks4Hands posted:Welcome to my ideology. Well, it makes some large leaps without strong direct evidence (societal collapse is going to be nearly immediate and acute, the non linear changes in climate are much worse than mainstream predictions) and doesn't really present any original research, like has already been mentioned it's much more like a manifesto than a research paper which is an odd thing to present for peer review I would think.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:45
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It's going to come down to doing what you have to rather than you want. The fact that we get to do what we want or live our life however we want within the means available to us is an incredible luxury.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:47
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How are u posted:Who knows, but life 100% exists abundantly throughout the galaxy and the universe. It's no big deal.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:47
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AceOfFlames posted:I want to know exactly what am I supposed to do on my day to day life. If you can't answer this question in relation to yourself, how can you answer it in relation to climate change? The latter's adapted from the former.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:51
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Accretionist posted:If you can't answer this question in relation to yourself, how can you answer it in relation to climate change? The latter's adapted from the former. I don't get this line of thinking. Allow me to explain further. When I was a kid I thought I was going to change the world and contribute to scientific progress. Then I learn that collapse is imminent. I keep hearing things like "live your life", "keep fighting and don't stop" or "spend time with the people you love" but I don't see how I can accomplish any of them with a time limit for human civilization ticking on. "Live your life": I don't have a lot of hobbies. I like the occasional video game, I like reading, I like staying informed about current events, I like discussing deep ideas. All of those will be rendered irrelevant when climate change rolls around. All deep ideas will be forgotten in favor of "hey the bandits are coming" and "the weather might not be poo poo enough to allow us to grow crops". I despise all sports. "Keep fighting the good fight": I don't fight battles I know I will lose. I don't understand the usefulness of a moral victory. I don't believe in any God and thus in my view, we will all simply have our consciousness end no matter what we do. If any God exists and decides that I should be punished for "cowardice", "inaction" or otherwise failing a test I never consented to taking, They are not a God worth worshipping. "Spend time with the people you love": I was heavily ostracized as a child and thus never learned how to make friends. All friends I have are people who befriended me and they have been slowly moving away since we live in separate countries. My parents are heavily controlling and will likely die before the real bad things happen. If I were to acquire any additional relationships, they would be additional liabilities: people who could either abandon or betray me. Even if they don't do either, they are people I would have to defend from the approaching horrors. I am currently in therapy but any time I mention subjects such as this or the rise of fascism, I get a clearly rehearsed response of "We are not here to talk about the 'content' of the causes of your problems. What matters is the 'process' in which you deal with them". What am I supposed to do differently then?
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Oct 28, 2018 18:07
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AceOfFlames posted:OK, I am breaking the drat toxx because who the hell cares. I have seen this topic pervade other threads so more money for Lowtax's spine I guess. You are pathetic
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Oct 28, 2018 18:13
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AceOfFlames posted:"Live your life": I don't have a lot of hobbies. I like the occasional video game, I like reading, I like staying informed about current events, I like discussing deep ideas. All of those will be rendered irrelevant when climate change rolls around. All deep ideas will be forgotten in favor of "hey the bandits are coming" and "the weather might not be poo poo enough to allow us to grow crops". I despise all sports. Instead of going into academia, I decided to try to start a tech-based business. It's like having a goal of helping other people for generations to come through studying something academic and unearthing new knowledge about how to save lives, in that it presents challenges and puzzles to unlock, except you keep the profits. You don't even need Silicon Valley investor money or any start-up money if you have an idea that involves starting a website, because Amazon provides free hosting for the first year, and all you have to do is learn to program. And I still occasionally get involved by writing members of Congress\ Edit: Collapse isn't imminent. You probably read that people are saying that in a few years or at some point collapse might be inevitable even if we stopped adding carbon to the atmosphere, but that's not the same thing. Even then, collapse could take hundreds of years, and there's value in fighting the good fight to make sure that humanity can last a few hundred years longer. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 18:18
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It sounds like you need a better therapist. You have already decided that any future where the standard of living is below now isn't worth living for but there's not one good or bad outcome, there are varying levels of how bad it can get that can still be changed and save a substantial number of lives. Are you involved in any activist groups? If not, join one (or a few) and use it as an outlet for your feeling of powerlessness. Regardless of whether you think it has any impact or that it's all hopeless, it will be better for your mental health than sitting around with nothing but your thoughts and wallowing in anticipatory fear.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:28
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Does this subject make people depressed? Or does it just attract the sad sacks and give them a real world justification for the feelings they have (and would have regardless)
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Oct 28, 2018 18:32
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I recommend getting in shape. You'll need it and it'll make you less of a coward.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:34
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AceOfFlames posted:Then I learn that collapse is imminent. Don't believe everything you read, especially if it couldn't pass peer review.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:37
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AceOfFlames posted:I don't get this line of thinking. Allow me to explain further. You need to be better about listening to your therapist. The truth is that you are probably pretty unlikely to be eaten by raiders in your lifetime if you currently live in the developed world. Also, I am not a therapist, but it really does sound like the externalities (climate change, fascism) are things that you have latched on to and attached to your already existing mental health issues. You should probably request a permaban from these forums and stop spending any of your leisure time online if you can't resist putting your hand on the stove.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:57
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DrNutt posted:You need to be better about listening to your therapist. The truth is that you are probably pretty unlikely to be eaten by raiders in your lifetime if you currently live in the developed world. A permaban would just make things worse. This is the only place where I can talk about this sort of thing. Where else am I going to go? I know I bother a lot of people here, but at least here I feel like I don't get dismissed right out of hand. Heck, that Deep Adaptation paper even mentioned people fearing mentioning these views would invite ostracism. I certainly cannot talk about this IRL.
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Oct 28, 2018 19:04
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Epitope posted:Does this subject make people depressed? Or does it just attract the sad sacks and give them a real world justification for the feelings they have (and would have regardless) Oh yeah it makes loads of people depressed. I'm more of an optimist. We are #blessed to live in this time of rapid and exciting change that we are unlikely to ever experience again! The kids ten years old and younger will pine for our age when they finally realize just what has become of their world. The nations washed beneath the waves, the millions starving and dead and warring, the innovative diseases being workshopped in the bodies of antibiotically enhanced hormone based cattle that will disrupt the immune system marketplace! Humanity has had a rather minuscule run of only ~200,000 years (pathetic compared to the humble frog which emerged ~300 million years ago) but an extremely outsized effect. We will imprint the human skeleton as the specter of death on the immutable psyche of future sapient creatures due to our skill and drive to kill all creatures, large and small. Amazing! #BigDeathEnergy
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Oct 28, 2018 19:06
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