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Sagacity posted:I do have to say that because kotlin is really easy to interop with java (even within the same project) it's quite a low barrier to entry
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Oct 28, 2018 22:36
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:i haven't followed this thread for the last 1500 posts so someone give me a summary of what's good/bad/hipster in the world of pl today
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Oct 28, 2018 22:44
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mystes posted:No, rust is dead. Netcraft confirms it. gently caress, that's a phrase i havent heard in a long time
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Oct 28, 2018 22:48
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the c greybeards i know dislike rust because it has too much stuff in it, "like c++"
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Oct 28, 2018 22:48
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mystes posted:No, rust is dead. Netcraft confirms it. TheFluff posted:the c greybeards i know dislike rust because it has too much stuff in it, "like c++" good enough for me. back to the c mines it is
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Oct 28, 2018 22:51
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christ i forgot how much i LOVE void pointers. you can do anything with those things!
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Oct 28, 2018 23:02
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wrong thread
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Oct 28, 2018 23:07
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ah yes, i suppose i should also check on the terrible programmers and the infosec crew
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Oct 28, 2018 23:13
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Gazpacho posted:entry into what I mean, that's how they're selling it: "just use it to replace your java bean monstrosities with a cute little kotlin data class"
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Oct 28, 2018 23:31
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:ah yes, i suppose i should also check on the terrible programmers and the infosec crew nah. I was shitposting on linux and did it in the wrong thread by mistake.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:36
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that's alright. it's something you can do in any thread as long as you do it very silently
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Oct 28, 2018 23:42
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akadajet posted:nah. I was shitposting on linux and did it in the wrong thread by mistake.
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Oct 29, 2018 00:29
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NihilCredo posted:the same complaint pops up regularly when talking about f# or kotlin. almost everybody who tries them quickly agrees that they're a step up from c# and java, but c# and java are not so painful that people will rush en masse to make the switch, so people and companies keep pouring resources into supporting and improving c# and java instead if you already strictly use immutable data types then c# has enough of a pain point that switching part of a solution to f# is actually useful enough that even non-f# devs will embrace it, it's kinda cool
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Oct 29, 2018 00:48
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kotlin is nicer than java for things like android development and apis, especially with coroutines stabilizing in 1.3. the only reason i can think of for not using it is being afraid of learning new things
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Oct 29, 2018 01:00
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the community got a lot better in the 2000s, in every way. irc channels, friendlier forums, better open source implementations, better "trial versions" from commercial lisp vendors it is worth noting i am an old now and i remember 90s lisp users today it's more scalaz users who are representative of the user i am talking about
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Oct 29, 2018 01:01
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hi the thing about worse is better is that adoption isn't driven by any technical considerations ever* * edit for nerds: i mean that by and large it plays a very small almost trivial part tef fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Oct 29, 2018 |
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Oct 29, 2018 01:02
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worse is better opines an imaginary meritocracy, wherein everyone uses _the right tool for the job_, and then struggles to explain that lisp is the best tool but also no-one uses it by comparison
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Oct 29, 2018 01:03
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has anything non trivial and worthwhile ever been written in lisp? i know i can't think of anything off the top of my head, and it's not like something of that vintage hasn't had time to bear fruits. fortran i can at least say has provided plenty of numerical routines that'll be used for millennia to come
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Oct 29, 2018 02:42
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:has anything non trivial and worthwhile ever been written in lisp? i know i can't think of anything off the top of my head, and it's not like something of that vintage hasn't had time to bear fruits. fortran i can at least say has provided plenty of numerical routines that'll be used for millennia to come autocad, some spaceship stuff, emacs, hacker news, the original reddit, large bits of the pre-obidos main amazon server software (not obidos, lol), and goog hired enough gofai peeps that they ended up writing lisp poo poo. you will note that the actually famous applications got rewritten every lang which is old enough and peeps still give a poo poo has peeps who've written poo poo in it bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Oct 29, 2018 |
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Oct 29, 2018 02:57
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bob dobbs is dead posted:goog hired enough gofai peeps that they ended up writing lisp poo poo also they bought ita which, as an mit-related startup, was a scheme shop originally
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Oct 29, 2018 03:28
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tef posted:hi the thing about worse is better is that adoption isn't driven by any technical considerations ever* well, it is though. just that people make their decision when they need to make a decision, not when the perfectionist nerds have finally decided that they've found the perfect way to TDD the feature and release it two years too late. even if the "better" product ends up actually better (and I think that's a big if) it was worse when it mattered--a clean, maintainable, almost bug-free piece of software that doesn't do what you need right now is worthless
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Oct 29, 2018 03:39
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:christ i forgot how much i LOVE void pointers. you can do anything with those things! it’s admittedly very trivial and silly of me but whenever I see people casting a void pointer I think "dude half the fun here is you don’t have to cast it!" (something something c vs c++ whatever)
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Oct 29, 2018 04:53
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pokeyman posted:it’s admittedly very trivial and silly of me but whenever I see people casting a void pointer I think "dude half the fun here is you don’t have to cast it!" scandalous flouting of type modesty itt
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Oct 29, 2018 05:07
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:i haven't followed this thread for the last 1500 posts so someone give me a summary of what's good/bad/hipster in the world of pl today rust still has a loud fan club yes
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Oct 29, 2018 06:09
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NihilCredo posted:the same complaint pops up regularly when talking about f# or kotlin. almost everybody who tries them quickly agrees that they're a step up from c# and java, but c# and java are not so painful that people will rush en masse to make the switch, so people and companies keep pouring resources into supporting and improving c# and java instead holy lol at bundling c# into the same category as java there are no f# users to speak of, because c# and the clr have no users outside of microsoft shops marked by incompetence and poor decision-making. it has nothing to do with the goodness or badness of f#, because no business that chose microsoft as a platform can ever make a good decision -- plainly they hosed up to the tune of millions of dollars on day one sure kotlin and scala are kinda weird and niche but at least they interop with java, a platform in use by firms that are not incompetent-by-default
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Oct 29, 2018 06:52
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:christ i forgot how much i LOVE void pointers. you can do anything with those things! boy howdy are you gonna love golang
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Oct 29, 2018 06:53
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thanks, shaggar
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Oct 29, 2018 08:23
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I wonder what would happen if shaggar and nbsd walked into the same room.
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Oct 29, 2018 08:26
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Xarn posted:I wonder what would happen if shaggar and nbsd walked into the same room. they would both poo poo on apple?
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Oct 29, 2018 09:06
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Sapozhnik posted:rust still has a loud fan club yes hello
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Oct 29, 2018 13:37
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:holy lol at bundling c# into the same category as java this is a weird post to me because some of the best dev shops ive seen locally are at least partially microsoft, and the worst are java. also lumping kotlin with scala feels like you havent left the comfort zone of java long enough to appreciate kotlin and loathe sbt
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Oct 29, 2018 14:25
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c# is a better language than java at this point and has the best web frameworks. the only thing java has is maven which is great, but not enough to make java worth using in 2018.
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Oct 29, 2018 14:35
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bob dobbs is dead posted:hacker news, the original reddit lol
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Oct 29, 2018 15:57
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tef posted:lol yeah, it's not incredible
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Oct 29, 2018 16:08
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while hn and reddit are not as technically notable as ITA/QPX, it's not bad to include a web property or 3 for breadth
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Oct 29, 2018 16:16
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:has anything non trivial and worthwhile ever been written in lisp? i know i can't think of anything off the top of my head, and it's not like something of that vintage hasn't had time to bear fruits. fortran i can at least say has provided plenty of numerical routines that'll be used for millennia to come the semi-procedural musical auto-accompaniment engines in yamaha keyboards are based on a system modelled in lisp of course, it's was implemented as primitive C & macros for micro-itron with countless nested stack allocated interim string buffers, ready to overflow in the presence of one too many 32nd note in a bar 'cos suffering makes the music sweeter
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Oct 29, 2018 16:17
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:has anything non trivial and worthwhile ever been written in lisp? i know i can't think of anything off the top of my head, and it's not like something of that vintage hasn't had time to bear fruits. fortran i can at least say has provided plenty of numerical routines that'll be used for millennia to come lot of scope to have a biased idea of what software exists, and lisp is hampered by several biases most of us will have (i.e. being popular in a mostly distant past, mostly on any machine *except* a home microcomputer, and relatively seldom as a software package that is productized enough to be on a shelf or have a straightforward webpage with licensing information). it is probably instructive to ask "was there every anything non-trivial and worthwhile written in pl/i?", where the answer is obviously "yes", otherwise ibm would not have made several revisions of the language and compiler this decade (most recent release 5rev2 in July), and eclipse can be whipped into giving some editor support for it. this is in spite of it never being an academia darling, the target of massive hype (as lisp was in the 80s ai revolution), or being the *least* bit cool even to the nerdiest pl nerd. still, i can't name a single thing i *know* was written in it. still, for the weird anachronistic actual examples the standards are: mirai (the 3d one), maxima, ita software (dominant air booking software), the ps1/ps2 era naughty dog stuff (another pretty primitive macro-heavy runtime, but controlled and live-modifiable from allegro on a pc), etc. clojure is of course also about if you want a job doing lispish things
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Oct 29, 2018 17:11
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:has anything non trivial and worthwhile ever been written in lisp? i know i can't think of anything off the top of my head, and it's not like something of that vintage hasn't had time to bear fruits. fortran i can at least say has provided plenty of numerical routines that'll be used for millennia to come emacs lmao
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Oct 29, 2018 17:23
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Isn't the software behind the world's leading forum for temporarily embarrassed computer toucher millionaires also written in lisp?
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Oct 29, 2018 17:24
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:still, i can't name a single thing i *know* was written in it. Multics 
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