Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

«‹›528 »

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

I agree with you. I just liked the A+ trolling.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 20:52

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 05:30

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

evilweasel posted:

what kind of nonsense is this, do you think a person holding a slice of bread has turned into a sandwich?

Holding two slices? nah. Laying on at least a slice of bread, or even perhaps sandwiched between two - yes.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 20:53

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Hypothetical

I take two ends of a loaf of bread. I but on the non-crust side tomato sauce cheese and meat then toast it until the cheese melts. Then I put the two non crust sides together.

What do I have?

A sandwich, a pizza, or a calzone?

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:07

Meatbag Esq.: May 3, 2006; Hmm which internet meme should go here again?

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:08

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

Lote posted:

Hypothetical

I take two ends of a loaf of bread. I but on the non-crust side tomato sauce cheese and meat then toast it until the cheese melts. Then I put the two non crust sides together.

What do I have?

A sandwich, a pizza, or a calzone?

You have a grilled cheese sandwich with tomato sauce.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:14

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

Lote posted:

Hypothetical

I take two ends of a loaf of bread. I but on the non-crust side tomato sauce cheese and meat then toast it until the cheese melts. Then I put the two non crust sides together.

What do I have?

A sandwich, a pizza, or a calzone?

A calzone and a pizza are types of sandwiches.

Look Sir Droids posted:

You have a grilled cheese sandwich with tomato sauce.

This is your type of sandwich.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:16

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

Meatbag Esq. posted:

I feel like this thread is about at this point:

also waiting for the title to be quietly changed

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:35

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Vox Nihili posted:

also waiting for the title to be quietly changed

I would be in favor of this. Do I just PM a mod or something?

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:40

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

I think only mods can do it, yeah.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:47

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

Yeah probably a good time to change that.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:47

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Throatwarbler is notably absent...

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:48

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

I finally saw a lawyer today that made me say "Holy poo poo. That guy's loving awesome."

He bills $1,000 an hour in family court.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:54

El_Elegante: Jul 3, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Biscuit Hider

How well does he dress?

# ? Oct 29, 2018 21:55

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Speaking bout family law, can someone PM me a family law person that�s willing to work on contingency / pro bono. (No, money down!) Louisiana / New Orleans area.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 22:02

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

El_Elegante posted:

How well does he dress?

Fantastically.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 22:03

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

CaptainScraps posted:

Fantastically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtt4u3WnTCY

# ? Oct 29, 2018 22:30

ulmont: Sep 15, 2010; IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has come up with the thread's theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE

# ? Oct 29, 2018 22:36

Meatbag Esq.: May 3, 2006; Hmm which internet meme should go here again?

CaptainScraps posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtt4u3WnTCY

ulmont posted:

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has come up with the thread's theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE

Guys, please stop doxxing me.

# ? Oct 29, 2018 22:58

nutri_void: Apr 18, 2015; I shall devour your soul.; Grimey Drawer

mastershakeman posted:

Throatwarbler is notably absent...

Just put the emails between the bun(s)

# ? Oct 29, 2018 23:03

Toona the Cat: Jun 9, 2004; The Greatest

structural purist or gtfo

# ? Oct 30, 2018 00:57

Eminent Domain: Sep 23, 2007

Toona the Cat posted:

structural purist or gtfo

My man.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 02:08

Kawasaki Nun: Jul 16, 2001; by Reene

Uhh the Earl of Sandwich simply wanted something he could eat while playing without getting his hands dirty

# ? Oct 30, 2018 02:31

incogneato: Jun 4, 2007; Zoom! Swish! Bang!

ulmont posted:

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has come up with the thread's theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE

This needs to be in the OP. Alternatively, it needs to be the OP.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 02:41

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

The USDA has a standard of identity for a sandwich, in the Food Standards and Labeling Book.

quote:

SANDWICH - CLOSED:
Product must contain at least 35 percent cooked meat and no more than 50 percent bread. Sandwiches are not amenable to inspection. If inspection is requested for this product, it may be granted under reimbursable Food Inspection Service.
Typical �closed-faced� sandwiches consisting of two slices of bread or the top and bottom sections of a sliced bun that enclose meat or poultry, are not amenable to the Federal meat and poultry inspection laws. Therefore, they are not required to be inspected nor bear the marks of inspection when distributed in interstate commerce.

SANDWICH - OPEN:
Must contain at least 50 percent cooked meat. Sandwiches are amenable only if they are open faced sandwiches. Product must show a true product name, e.g., �Sliced Roast Beef on Bread.� This regulatory policy in no way alters the Department's present policy with respect to caterers who include meat sandwiches in their dinners.

SANDWICHES (MEAT OR POULTRY AS COMPONENTS OF �DINNER PRODUCTS�):
Dinners containing a sandwich type product, e.g., a frankfurter, hamburger, or sliced poultry meat with a bun, are amenable and subject to inspection.

STROMBOLI (IT):
Product is not considered a traditional sandwich. Minimum meat requirement is 25 percent fresh or 18 percent cooked meat. The label must show a true product name, e.g., �Pepperoni and Cheese Wrapped in Dough.�

FAJITAS:
The Spanish translation is �little belts� or strips of meat. Fajitas are strips of seasoned or marinated red meat or poultry meat, which have been cooked.[...] Fajitas may also be sandwich-like product, requiring 15 percent strips of cooked meat or poultry meat (excluding the solution above green weight), topped with onions, peppers, and sauce, and rolled in a flour tortilla. Fajita, including the name of the meat or poultry, may stand alone, for example, �Beef Fajita,� �Chicken Fajita.� Raw meat or poultry strips with added solutions must be labeled in accordance with 9 CFR 317.2(e)(2) or 9 CFR 381.117(h), and identified as �...for fajitas�, for example, �beef strips containing 10% of a solution of water, salt, spices, and spice extractives for fajitas.�

BURRITOS:
A Mexican style sandwich-like product consisting of a flour tortilla, various fillings, and at least 15 percent meat or 10 percent cooked poultry meat. The flour tortilla is rolled and may or may not have tucked ends. Fillings may contain, in addition to meat or poultry meat, such major ingredients as beans, potatoes, cheese, rice, tomatoes, and chilies.

So-called "open sandwiches" are accepted, as are frankfurters and burgers, which are considered sandwiches under the overarching "sandwich-type product" definition. However, Fajitas and Burritos are excluded, being instead relegated to "sandwich-like" product status. Thus the USDA is Structure Neutral.

Hot dog fillings are considered a sandwich. However, the USDA requires a "meat or poultry filling"; press inquiries regarding the so-called "typical" definition have confirmed that this is in fact the filling criterion is a necessary one to meet agency sandwich identity standards. Thus the USDA is technically Ingredient Neutral, with a specific focus on meat product filling. (subsequent litigation has confirmed that seafood also qualify, including shellfish in a fairly engaging 2016 case about oyster butties)

A close analysis would therefore indicate that the USDA has adopted a True Neutral position on the sandwich question. While this would appear to resolve the issue, regrettably, this is simply not the case. The Food Standards and Labeling Book, and the USDA remit on product identity as a whole, are specifically directed toward USDA-regulated product inspections (hence the meat filling requirement) and is thus inapposite for the current broader identity inquiry. Per the closed sandwich definition, the USDA has attempted to evade the difficult challenge of comprehensive sandwich regulation. The FDA has proper regulatory jurisdiction on comprehensive food identity regulation.

Alas, at this point the decades of regulated industry lawsuits and underfunding end our search for answers. At this time the FDA has declined to promulgate a formal standard of identity for a sandwich (though it has as a matter of course regulated the definition of "bread" (obv, lmao), "jelly", and "peanut butter". The current legal definition of sandwich, per FDA guidance to industry regarding food identities, is merely its common name, "the name by which the food is generally known." We can only hope that a return to appropriate funding levels will give this question the attention it deserves.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Oct 30, 2018

# ? Oct 30, 2018 02:46

Meatbag Esq.: May 3, 2006; Hmm which internet meme should go here again?

Who was the person running the legal writing class, I feel like this would be a good exercise for them.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 03:25

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

incogneato posted:

This needs to be in the OP. Alternatively, it needs to be the OP.

Agreed

# ? Oct 30, 2018 03:26

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I'd argue that "sandwich-like" puts the USDA in a strict not a sandwich territory. Otherwise, they'd just call it a sandwich. No reason for excess verbage.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 03:27

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Can we use the term pseudosandwich? I just like the way that sounds.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 03:52

Necroskowitz: Jan 20, 2011

We should consider the original intent of the sandwich in determining whether a particular meal counts:

Whether someone can be feasibly eat the food in one hand while gambling with the other.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 05:03

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

nm posted:

I'd argue that "sandwich-like" puts the USDA in a strict not a sandwich territory. Otherwise, they'd just call it a sandwich. No reason for excess verbage.

That's correct, fajitas and burritos are not considered sandwiches by the USDA. I don't know why they use the "-like" or "-type", they don't have any classification for it or utility in reg. Well, that's not true, I know why they do it- most of the Book is an exercise in vagueness to let them get to inspect products as much as possible when they know that a site is in violation and want to bring the hammer down. I don't know the story behind a lot of it, but it reads like they had problems with companies trying to somehow argue around the amount of meat in a prepared meal product to avoid inspection.

Now, if you really want a fun read, the story of litigation of the definition of bread is fascinating. No seriously it's a big part of how the FDA came into its authority. The peanut butter wars alone...

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Oct 30, 2018

# ? Oct 30, 2018 05:24

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

ulmont posted:

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has come up with the thread's theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE

Replace the OP with this.

edit: beaten. Is there way to embed it? I swear there was or did tax break that?

nm fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Oct 30, 2018

# ? Oct 30, 2018 06:23

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

nm posted:

Replace the OP with this.

also for those of you in finance:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1057010155332628481

# ? Oct 30, 2018 06:27

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

ulmont posted:

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has come up with the thread's theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE

# ? Oct 30, 2018 08:51

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

Discendo Vox posted:

SANDWICH - CLOSED:
Product must contain at least 35 percent cooked meat and no more than 50 percent bread. Sandwiches are not amenable to inspection. If inspection is requested for this product, it may be granted under reimbursable Food Inspection Service.
Typical �closed-faced� sandwiches consisting of two slices of bread or the top and bottom sections of a sliced bun that enclose meat or poultry, are not amenable to the Federal meat and poultry inspection laws. Therefore, they are not required to be inspected nor bear the marks of inspection when distributed in interstate commerce.

SANDWICH - OPEN:
Must contain at least 50 percent cooked meat. Sandwiches are amenable only if they are open faced sandwiches. Product must show a true product name, e.g., �Sliced Roast Beef on Bread.� This regulatory policy in no way alters the Department's present policy with respect to caterers who include meat sandwiches in their dinners.

SANDWICHES (MEAT OR POULTRY AS COMPONENTS OF �DINNER PRODUCTS�):
Dinners containing a sandwich type product, e.g., a frankfurter, hamburger, or sliced poultry meat with a bun, are amenable and subject to inspection.

STROMBOLI (IT):
Product is not considered a traditional sandwich. Minimum meat requirement is 25 percent fresh or 18 percent cooked meat. The label must show a true product name, e.g., �Pepperoni and Cheese Wrapped in Dough.�

FAJITAS:
The Spanish translation is �little belts� or strips of meat. Fajitas are strips of seasoned or marinated red meat or poultry meat, which have been cooked.[...] Fajitas may also be sandwich-like product, requiring 15 percent strips of cooked meat or poultry meat (excluding the solution above green weight), topped with onions, peppers, and sauce, and rolled in a flour tortilla. Fajita, including the name of the meat or poultry, may stand alone, for example, �Beef Fajita,� �Chicken Fajita.� Raw meat or poultry strips with added solutions must be labeled in accordance with 9 CFR 317.2(e)(2) or 9 CFR 381.117(h), and identified as �...for fajitas�, for example, �beef strips containing 10% of a solution of water, salt, spices, and spice extractives for fajitas.�

BURRITOS:
A Mexican style sandwich-like product consisting of a flour tortilla, various fillings, and at least 15 percent meat or 10 percent cooked poultry meat. The flour tortilla is rolled and may or may not have tucked ends. Fillings may contain, in addition to meat or poultry meat, such major ingredients as beans, potatoes, cheese, rice, tomatoes, and chilies.

So a PBJ isn't a sandwich? USDA exposed once again.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 08:59

Toona the Cat: Jun 9, 2004; The Greatest

That just means that if someone gives me a black bean patty instead of some by G-d American beef, I have legal right to yeet that motherfucker out the window.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 10:06

Hot Dog Day #91: Jun 19, 2003

LOL if you trust the "govern"ment top define a sandwich:: for you.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 15:53

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

The government has also defined a fruit (tomatoes) as a vegetable.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 16:19

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Avocados are not drupes; they are berries. Just look at the endocarp. QED

# ? Oct 30, 2018 17:40

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

Wake up, sheeple?

# ? Oct 30, 2018 18:02

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 05:30

Hot Dog Day #91: Jun 19, 2003

Quantum grammar is my favorite Nelly song.

# ? Oct 30, 2018 18:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

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