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The impassable mountains/deserts are one of my favorite additions to the recent paradox games. I didn't expect them to not show up in IR, but I'm still glad they did. I'm getting the feeling that every region is going to be maximum thunderdome and I look forward to seeing the crazy things that happen.
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Oct 29, 2018 23:40
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The extreme-thunderdome-ness of it is something that actually worries me a bit. I feel like some parts are just gonna be a mass of indistinct tags that we never actually get to know, particularly the northern Europe parts. It seems like every game you might end up seeing a different power emerge, so you never really learn the names of any of them.
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Oct 29, 2018 23:53
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That's probably not out of place in the north. I imagine the med will be a bit more stable though.
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Oct 30, 2018 00:00
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Koramei posted:There are an absolute assload of solid mountain barriers, they just get covered by the colors of whatever nation holds the most land next to them. If you look at the zoomed in thing of Sicily you can make them out pretty easily. Yeah, the population map Johan tweeted a while back makes them super obvious:  I think I can just about make out these regions as impassable:  Which raises a UX concern: I think this is a zoom level where I would want to be able to clearly determine what is and is not passable Koramei posted:The extreme-thunderdome-ness of it is something that actually worries me a bit. I feel like some parts are just gonna be a mass of indistinct tags that we never actually get to know, particularly the northern Europe parts. It seems like every game you might end up seeing a different power emerge, so you never really learn the names of any of them. Good! I'd rather have a bit of variance than see the exact same blobs form very game, a la CK2 or EU4 Senor Dog posted:The impassable mountains/deserts are one of my favorite additions to the recent paradox games. I didn't expect them to not show up in IR, but I'm still glad they did. Hell yeah. Terrain isn't half as important as it should be in Paradox game. Question: has anyone here ever failed to invade Afghanistan?
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Oct 30, 2018 01:57
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I did in my first V2 Persia game. Which was also my 2nd V2 game ever
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Oct 30, 2018 02:06
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Autonomous Monster posted:Hell yeah. Terrain isn't half as important as it should be in Paradox game. I think you'll find that the game models terrain just fine and all the historical would-be conquerors of Afghanistan were a bunch of scrublords who need to get on my level
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Oct 30, 2018 02:14
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That terrain map is going to make fighting in Greece a treat.
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Oct 30, 2018 02:18
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Autonomous Monster posted:Hell yeah. Terrain isn't half as important as it should be in Paradox game. The trouble with the way Paradox models warfare is that guerrilla resistance is basically non-existent. Fighting an open battle in Afghanistan isn't particularly difficult compared to doing it anywhere else (hell, it's probably easier than somewhere like Vietnam), but they don't resist invaders in open warfare. The closest thing they have to guerrillas is either just having periodic rebellions pop up that are just as easy to crush as invading was in the first place - basically costing you more in attention than it does in any material resource, or the HoI4 resistance model where it just applies random damage to infrastructure and maybe some light attrition to units - which is annoying for an occupier but it can never actually drive them out.
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Oct 30, 2018 02:20
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if IR doesnt have a cheevo named "YEAH BOII" that you get by controlling the city of rome as the eponymous tribe then scrap the whole game imo
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Oct 30, 2018 02:23
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Imperator Rome: Cracking Open A Cold One With the Boii
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Oct 30, 2018 02:40
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The trouble with the way Paradox models warfare is that guerrilla resistance is basically non-existent. Fighting an open battle in Afghanistan isn't particularly difficult compared to doing it anywhere else (hell, it's probably easier than somewhere like Vietnam), but they don't resist invaders in open warfare. The closest thing they have to guerrillas is either just having periodic rebellions pop up that are just as easy to crush as invading was in the first place - basically costing you more in attention than it does in any material resource, or the HoI4 resistance model where it just applies random damage to infrastructure and maybe some light attrition to units - which is annoying for an occupier but it can never actually drive them out. Hoi4 should let me recreate the Vietnam war story where the generals plugged in all the data about kills, casualties, ammunition expenditure, fuel, and everything else they could get, plugged it into a computer in the Pentagon basement, and then after a few days of computation it determined they won the war two years ago
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Oct 30, 2018 02:45
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Agothocles Syracuse could be fun being essentially one of the biggest rear end in a top hat tyrants of antiquity.
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Oct 30, 2018 03:19
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Agean90 posted:if IR doesnt have a cheevo named "YEAH BOII" that you get by controlling the city of rome as the eponymous tribe then scrap the whole game imo Same but "THICC BOII" for controlling every province
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Oct 30, 2018 03:26
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The trouble with the way Paradox models warfare is that guerrilla resistance is basically non-existent. Fighting an open battle in Afghanistan isn't particularly difficult compared to doing it anywhere else (hell, it's probably easier than somewhere like Vietnam), but they don't resist invaders in open warfare. The closest thing they have to guerrillas is either just having periodic rebellions pop up that are just as easy to crush as invading was in the first place - basically costing you more in attention than it does in any material resource, or the HoI4 resistance model where it just applies random damage to infrastructure and maybe some light attrition to units - which is annoying for an occupier but it can never actually drive them out. I had kind of an interesting invasion of Afghanistan in CK2. The supply limit is really low in those provinces (especially in winter) so I could only send a few thousand men at a time into each province, yet the defending Abbasids had higher supply limits in their own territory, so they could always field larger armies than me. Even though my army outnumbered the Abbasids as a whole, I could only invade Afghanistan by sending in several smaller armies -- one occupying each province. I could only hope to siege down as much as possible with those little armies before a big huge Abbasid doomstack showed up and swept through the area and my small armies would have to scatter out of the way in every direction like cockroaches. I still won the war in the end but it was very difficult because I could not challenge the Abbasids in battle with the low supply limits. At one point, the main Abbasid army of ~20k men or so just parked themselves in the middle of Afghanistan and wouldn't move, surrounded on two sides by impassable mountains. I couldn't muster up enough forces to dislodge them without them melting away from attrition so I could only sit there and wait. I only won because the enemy got distracted by some other war on the other side of their empire and moved off. So I guess that's one (clumsy) way of doing it. I suppose it can make sense in a way because guerilla fighting is all about using the environment and the terrain to get some kind of local superiority against a larger force. The provinces in CK2 can represent huge areas of hundreds of square miles, so it makes sense that a defender can field a larger force within that one area. That seems to be what goes on with the pagan defensive bonuses in their own lands as well.
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Oct 30, 2018 04:37
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Okay, what is it that makes particular areas “thunderdomes” in Paradox games? I get that it means there’s going to be a lot of war there but what kind of factors actually go into that? Is it multiple countries with claims on each other? A lack of a single clear hegemon?
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Oct 30, 2018 15:58
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Takanago posted:Okay, what is it that makes particular areas “thunderdomes” in Paradox games? I get that it means there’s going to be a lot of war there but what kind of factors actually go into that? Is it multiple countries with claims on each other? A lack of a single clear hegemon? Both, but especially the latter.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:12
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Ten minor nations enter, one blob leaves.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:13
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Takanago posted:Okay, what is it that makes particular areas “thunderdomes” in Paradox games? I get that it means there’s going to be a lot of war there but what kind of factors actually go into that? Is it multiple countries with claims on each other? A lack of a single clear hegemon? I'd say the definition requires two things - a lack of outside influence, and the goal of conquering everyone else in the area. The classic one is Central American tribes in EU4. A big mosh pit with a dozen tribes in it, all with the objective of repeatedly conquering each other to complete their reforms, then finally conquering everyone in the mosh pit before the Europeans arrive. There's nobody else that can affect the mosh pit - they're too far away. Japan's another - everyone in there wants to conquer everyone else, and there's not a great deal of outside influence usually.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:53
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I wonder how Paradox could properly integrate terrain into warfare so that Afghanistan IS super hard to conquer.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:09
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Well I mean for the time period Afghanistan wasn’t terribly hard to conquer, it’s only hard if you follow up that conquest with direct rule. Like the Persians and Muslims and even Greeks really didn’t have that great an issue.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:12
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Takanago posted:Okay, what is it that makes particular areas “thunderdomes” in Paradox games? I get that it means there’s going to be a lot of war there but what kind of factors actually go into that? Is it multiple countries with claims on each other? A lack of a single clear hegemon? Northern Italy is one because it was also one irl. Basically lots of little city-states fighting proxy wars for the great powers that surrounded them. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_League_of_Cambrai
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Oct 30, 2018 17:13
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Often, depending on the game, there's a ton of competing cores/claims in the area too, so it will NEVER settle because no matter who owns it, someone else wants it. This is how they represented the instability of the balkans in Victoria 2. Every state there is a core to like 5 different nations. It's especially potent there because the crisis system even allows nations that don't currently exist to press for independence on their cores if the current owner is weak enough.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:59
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The crisis system is pretty cool, although in practice when I play it doesn't feel like it's something the player can really use as much as something that just stirs up poo poo. I know there's things you can do to improve crisis tension or whatever it's called in other people's provinces but I'm not sure it's ever a good use of national focus when you could instead be encouraging clergy/capitalists/clerks.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:27
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In a hypothetical Vicky 3, expanding the crisis system would be neat. It felt really limited in where and how you could encourage tension in Vicky 2. I guess that would have to come with an expanded system for countries to deal with conflict within their borders.
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Oct 31, 2018 04:21
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The Narrator posted:In a hypothetical Vicky 3, expanding the crisis system would be neat. It felt really limited in where and how you could encourage tension in Vicky 2. I guess that would have to come with an expanded system for countries to deal with conflict within their borders. ideally the devs would draw inspiration from the great game. instead of crisis temperature going up based solely on pop militancy they can let it be influenced by neighboring powers funding insurgent groups. if it leads to a rebellion they can start sending weapons and "advisors" over to help them get their army in order. the country with the unrest has to spend somthing to supress these seperatists except if they go too hard theres an international outcry at the brutality and whoops now your neighbors threatening to go to war cause the minority pops you oppressed have the same religion.
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Oct 31, 2018 04:43
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'The Cold War Enhancement' mod for V2 tries to do something similar solely through decisions and events. Superpowers can sponsor guerillas and contras in the other superpowers' spherelings. This eventually spawns rebels and then the UN is asked to step in for a peacekeeping mission which members of the security council can veto.
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Oct 31, 2018 04:59
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Given the prevalence and complexity of revolutions throughout the Victoria timeframe, I would hope for a more involved system of rebellion and internal politics to give some more depth and interactivity to them. The way I'd imagine it in my head is that based on some set of rules a nation can transition from a state of Order to a state of Disorder (or whatever) that changes the rules of how the ephemeral and mysterious God King decision maker embodied by the player and the AI of other nations is able to interact with their nations. Instead of your armies always following your orders in typical circumstances, the state of Disorder could make it so that your armies decide to say no or even mutiny when you command them to put down the rebels somewhere, the chances of which would be modified by the various loyalties of the soldiers in the army, the qualities and loyalties of their leader, and probably most importantly how well and on time they're being paid. And this special state of disorder can of course deteriorate from crisis to full blown civil war, and foreign powers can get involved on behalf of various factions. The timeframe of Victoria really calls for a more robust system of internal politics than what we had with II. The Crisis system was a really good start but I always felt like Victoria II was one good internal politics-focused expansion away from really coming into its own as a great and well rounded game.
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Oct 31, 2018 05:21
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VostokProgram posted:The crisis system is pretty cool, although in practice when I play it doesn't feel like it's something the player can really use as much as something that just stirs up poo poo. I know there's things you can do to improve crisis tension or whatever it's called in other people's provinces but I'm not sure it's ever a good use of national focus when you could instead be encouraging clergy/capitalists/clerks. Yeah pretty much the only time you want to use the focus that increases crisis temperature is if you're playing as Greece and want to peel some of your cores off the Ottomans without going to war (the GPs will often back you over them).
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Nov 1, 2018 01:21
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britain will conquer the world for you as greece. It is pretty fun
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Nov 1, 2018 04:39
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Happy to say that yet another goon starts working with Paradox next month.
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Nov 2, 2018 20:41
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Nice to hear! What will you be working on?
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Nov 2, 2018 20:51
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Randarkman posted:Nice to hear! What will you be working on? Based off the Goth LP I assume Imperator's inevitable Late Antiquity DLC
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Nov 2, 2018 21:41
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I can confirm it is indeed Imperator's "Hero's Dream" steam train DLC.
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Nov 2, 2018 21:47
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Ofaloaf posted:Happy to say that yet another goon starts working with Paradox next month. Congrats! Goon LPs are the reason I got into Grand Strategy and its great to see them working on PDX titles
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Nov 2, 2018 22:01
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What's the Goth LP?
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Nov 2, 2018 22:07
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OctaviusBeaver posted:What's the Goth LP? Here
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Nov 2, 2018 22:13
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Ofaloaf posted:Happy to say that yet another goon starts working with Paradox next month. 
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Nov 2, 2018 22:13
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Poil posted:Congratulations, and condolences. Don't let the fans crush you with despair or the glamour go to your head. ignore this man, if u kill your project manager in one on one combat you take his place
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Nov 2, 2018 22:15
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Agean90 posted:ignore this man, if u kill your project manager in one on one combat you take his place Who would want to be a project manager though, that job looks awful Game design, now that's a discipline that has some weak links...
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Nov 2, 2018 22:40
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Congratulations!
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Nov 3, 2018 00:26
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