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Super Rad posted:Agreed that killing anyone other than the villagers that attacked him was hosed up, but that said I was still able to sympathize enough to not kill him. The game definitely puts Geralt in a lot of awkward situations where he has to do some 'gray area' killing - not to mention that Witchers have the world's most intense PTSD. There's definitely some gameplay story segregation going on quite a few times where Geralt could just knock out some dudes instead of slicing them in half and/or burning them, yeah. But outside of that, sob stories or magic PTSD don't excuse any crime. There's always a justification from the killer's perspective, that doesn't change the fact he did commit the crime.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:42
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I'm curious what the people who let Gaetan go think of Radovid. I'd argue the two are broadly pretty similar. Radovid's got a pretty compelling sob story starting out. Then his first big act of horrifying violence is directed against the person who wronged him, who more or less has it coming. He then goes on to run down everyone even tangentially affiliated with the person who wronged him so he can murder them too, maintaining all along that he's the real victim. Going ahead with the assassination isn't a hard choice, but for me, neither is killing Gaetan. For people who feel for Gaetan but not Mad Rad, what's the difference for you? Hell, as far as killing/sparing Cat Witchers goes, I'd say Jad Karadan's the much thornier case. He's got a lot to answer for, and the notion that he should be allowed to declare that his past crimes don't count and retire to a mansion rankles, but at least it's pretty clear he's no longer a threat to anyone. As for Gaetan, this isn't his first massacre (if Geralt suggests to him that this isn't the first time this has happened, his response amounts to a snippy "So did you come to kill me or just stand around judging me?"), and, given his lack of remorse, isn't likely to be his last.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:45
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GrossMurpel posted:There's definitely some gameplay story segregation going on quite a few times where Geralt could just knock out some dudes instead of slicing them in half and/or burning them, yeah. I disagree with this honestly and like that combat in the Witcher is pretty lethal (for everybody else anyway); outside of carefully controlled conditions, anything that is capable of knocking someone unconscious stands a pretty good chance of just killing them.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:52
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King Superman posted:I'm curious what the people who let Gaetan go think of Radovid. I'd argue the two are broadly pretty similar. Radovid's got a pretty compelling sob story starting out. Then his first big act of horrifying violence is directed against the person who wronged him, who more or less has it coming. He then goes on to run down everyone even tangentially affiliated with the person who wronged him so he can murder them too, maintaining all along that he's the real victim. Going ahead with the assassination isn't a hard choice, but for me, neither is killing Gaetan. For people who feel for Gaetan but not Mad Rad, what's the difference for you? Someone didn't play Witcher 2. Rad is a loving monster. He's the actual worst human being in the game. Whoreson comes close, but Whoreson also doesn't commit genocide.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:57
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I would be willing to forgive the Cat witcher for a momentary lapse... but he says he's done the same thing multiple times. He knows he is a killer, he doesn't feel any remorse, and he doesn't feel like doing anything to avoid a repeat in the future.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:58
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andrew smash posted:I disagree with this honestly and like that combat in the Witcher is pretty lethal (for everybody else anyway); outside of carefully controlled conditions, anything that is capable of knocking someone unconscious stands a pretty good chance of just killing them. Well in the mentioned case specifically, do you think Geralt couldn't incapacitate two run of the mill guards without killing them?
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Oct 30, 2018 21:59
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Fuzz posted:Someone didn't play Witcher 2. Emhyr is the worst human in the game and Thronebreaker: Witcher tales sets this in stone.... It shows all the horrible atrocities and scorched earth tactics the nilfs use in full...
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Oct 30, 2018 22:00
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i wonder how much geralt regrets saving bitch rear end duny
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Oct 30, 2018 22:01
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Yeah, that bit was really jarring, and they could have easily used a fistfighting minigame instead (the jarl wants to capture Geralt alive to have him tortured for what he has done or whatever)
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Oct 30, 2018 22:02
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:i wonder how much geralt regrets saving bitch rear end duny Cons: 1 emperor who I'm not convinced really was that much worse than whoever else would have taken the throne. Pros: 1 awesome daughter who in game canon saved all of existence in all dimensions from the White Frost. 
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Oct 30, 2018 22:05
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Savy Saracen salad posted:Emhyr is the worst human in the game and Thronebreaker: Witcher tales sets this in stone.... It shows all the horrible atrocities and scorched earth tactics the nilfs use in full... I've been hoping that I'd get to kill him since the moment I heard there would be a Witcher game and while I do feel disappointed that I couldn't do it directly, I'm glad I was could at least contribute. And I made sure to make him feel extra miserable by letting him know he's not getting that Father Of The Year Award after all, that was fun too.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:07
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Tender Bender posted:I will say I like that when you're talking to a certain Witcher 2 character it plays leitmotifs from that game which is a neat touch. They're spitting at the freak mutant who just sprinted into town and shoved 5 people to the ground.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:07
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Wasn't that to make him feel regret?
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Oct 30, 2018 22:07
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Radovid has been an ambitious lunatic since The Witcher 1 when he was conspiring with Adda against Foltest and bankrolling (partially at least) Salamandra.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:14
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GrossMurpel posted:Well in the mentioned case specifically, do you think Geralt couldn't incapacitate two run of the mill guards without killing them? With weapons drawn? Not with any degree of certainty. The real way "less lethal" weapons work is putting someone in enough pain or other discomfort that they don't want to fight any more. These dudes have swords out so trying to punch them out (the nonlethal option in this game) is risking getting skewered. Reminder that book-geralt's death came at the hands of a rando peasant with a pitchfork. I still think it's stupid that you have to kill them instead of something else, like another fist fight as mentioned above.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:20
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Two words: Axii
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Oct 30, 2018 22:22
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Didn't play Witcher 2, but I spared the other Witcher who killed the king. Felt okay about that after he spun his tale, and he came out to help at the keep so I call it a win. Dunno how I'd feel if I played the second game.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:23
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andrew smash posted:Reminder that book-geralt's death came at the hands of a rando peasant with a pitchfork. In the middle of a loving riot. I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to assume with the way Witcher fighting is presented both in the books and the games, Geralt could easily pirouette around two guards indefinitely. Dawgstar posted:Didn't play Witcher 2, but I spared the other Witcher who killed the king. Felt okay about that after he spun his tale, and he came out to help at the keep so I call it a win. Dunno how I'd feel if I played the second game. The main reason to kill him is to get a second chance at a fight that you previously lost due to cutscene shenanigans. E: Whoops, I meant that's the main reason for killing him in W2. GrossMurpel fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 22:24
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steinrokkan posted:Two words: Axii I don't disagree but that option is rarely presented
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Oct 30, 2018 22:34
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:i wonder how much geralt regrets saving bitch rear end duny personally i always kill him in w3
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Oct 30, 2018 22:40
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Fuzz posted:Someone didn't play Witcher 2. Not denying that he's a piece of poo poo. Like I said, I had zero compunctions with going through the assassination, and have zero pity for both of them. My point was that, like Gaetan, he has a compelling sob story, and that, like Gaetan, having a sob story doesn't excuse him for being a piece of poo poo. His dad is murdered when he's a kid, he's then raised to be a puppet king by the person who masterminded the murder, and there was indeed a sorcerous conspiracy to undermine his rule. He's a teenager who's spent his whole life tangled up in wars and plots. The thing is, everybody (rightly) agrees that that doesn't excuse poo poo, because he's a genocidal monster. It's just that I feel the same way about Gaetan. Guy's had a poo poo life for sure, and was justified in killing the village elders who tried to murder him. Then he pisses away that goodwill by murdering everybody else in the village. My question is what differentiates the two besides their respective reach. Radovid's definitely a greater menace since he has an army of fanatics to knock down peoples doors and burn families at the stake for him, in contrast to Gaetan who's stuck pulling kids out from under beds and slitting their throats personally. My hangup is if there's a morally substantive difference between the two, besides Radovid being born into a position where he's able to do horrible poo poo on a kingdom by kingdom rather than village by village basis.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:45
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You're totally right, but I guess I had more sympathy for Gaetan as a 'fellow witcher' - and like I mentioned way earlier in the thread if you're wearing cat school armor he notices and makes a neat comment about it. So those are my totally unconvincing reasons for letting Radovid get his comeuppance and letting Gaetan go.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:51
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Dawgstar posted:Didn't play Witcher 2, but I spared the other Witcher who killed the king. Felt okay about that after he spun his tale, and he came out to help at the keep so I call it a win. Dunno how I'd feel if I played the second game. You'd feel the same way, since Letho's an alright dude. Super Rad posted:You're totally right, but I guess I had more sympathy for Gaetan as a 'fellow witcher' - and like I mentioned way earlier in the thread if you're wearing cat school armor he notices and makes a neat comment about it. So those are my totally unconvincing reasons for letting Radovid get his comeuppance and letting Gaetan go. The saddest part is that the only way to have Radovid die is to let Phillipa get her revenge, which just pisses me off more because holy poo poo Phillipa is one of the worst human beings in the game, too, and deserved to have her failures rubbed in her loving face before she got the sword, instead of getting to feel all smug that she got the last laugh and then loving off as an owl.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:57
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Seems like a real failing of the game that you can only see to the death of only one or the other. Porque no los dos??
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Oct 30, 2018 22:59
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andrew smash posted:I don't disagree but that option is rarely presented Yes, that's the point - it should have been an option in that case.
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Oct 30, 2018 23:06
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Savy Saracen salad posted:Emhyr is the worst human in the game and Thronebreaker: Witcher tales sets this in stone.... It shows all the horrible atrocities and scorched earth tactics the nilfs use in full... Yeah, I appreciate that the Black Ones are full-on Nazis in Thronebreaker like they were in the books. Witcher 3 focuses less on their atrocities -- even making them personable in some cases -- in favor of showing how loving crazy
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Oct 31, 2018 00:32
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Fuzz posted:The saddest part is that the only way to have Radovid die is to let Phillipa get her revenge, which just pisses me off more because holy poo poo Phillipa is one of the worst human beings in the game, too, and deserved to have her failures rubbed in her loving face before she got the sword, instead of getting to feel all smug that she got the last laugh and then loving off as an owl. For what it's worth, Philippa's got a pretty bleak outlook, even if she's too proud to admit it. Of the three parties that can win the war, Radovid and Dijkstra are both committed to seeing her die in agony, and while in theory Emhyr has agreed to pardon her, I wouldn't put too much stock in that, especially once he notices her getting too close to Ciri. Besides that, her power base has collapsed and her friends are all either dead or sick of her. She bails on the reconstituted Lodge because they no longer defer to her, and the game seems to telegraph she's due to fall flat on her face in Nilfgaard's politics, too, given her hilariously bad read of Yen's intentions. Admittedly, that last part is speculation. She does seem like someone who really could've used an epilogue slide.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:50
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Phillipa is burned at the stake by witch hunters some years later.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:05
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Are you guys talking about Saint Philippa?
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Oct 31, 2018 01:11
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I find it hard to hate Philippa after her Triss Real Talk
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Oct 31, 2018 01:32
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:I find it hard to hate Philippa after her Triss Real Talk Did you play Witcher 2? She deserved far worse than she got
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Oct 31, 2018 01:41
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Phillipa is burned at the stake by witch hunters some years later. See, this is more or less how I figured she'd end up. GrossMurpel posted:Saint Philippa Although I can't say I saw this coming.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:16
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Yeah, I appreciate that the Black Ones are full-on Nazis in Thronebreaker like they were in the books. Witcher 3 focuses less on their atrocities -- even making them personable in some cases -- in favor of showing how loving crazy I don't know, every instance of someone from Nilfgaard seeming like an okay person is bookended by them doing or saying something monstrous. The only exception I can really think of is... Voorhis, I guess?
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Oct 31, 2018 03:32
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Russad posted:I don't know, every instance of someone from Nilfgaard seeming like an okay person is bookended by them doing or saying something monstrous. The Nilfgaard commander in White Orchard Did Nothing Wrong™.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:35
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Russad posted:I don't know, every instance of someone from Nilfgaard seeming like an okay person is bookended by them doing or saying something monstrous. Yeah, but in W3 it's in the context of "both sides are bad." I think it's sort of neat for a Polish developer to do a reds vs blacks storyline, but the Nilfgaardians from the books (and Thronebreaker) are genocidal slavers compared to whom Radovid the Mad looks positively sane.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:56
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Dijkstra's far more a Stalin figure than Radovid. I don't see how anyone reads Radovid's Redania as the USSR. I'd see Radovid as the personification of feudalism. Backwards peasant and religious led pogroms contrasted against the rationalised elimination of undesirables by Nilfgaard.
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Oct 31, 2018 04:25
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andrew smash posted:A broke hobo with a hot rear end magic lady girlfriend who leaves money hidden around for you because she knows you're gonna starve on principle otherwise, ie in a pretty good spot all things told Broke: I refuse to participate in the feudalist-imperialist Redanian economy. Woke: My high flying girlfriend bungs me money for my central Novigrad studio flat. E: Come to think of it, where in the books does Nilfgaard have slaves? I'm sure it's true but I don't remember ever reading it. They also have gender equality and a psychic army corps so that's cool too. Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 10:16
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Afaik they practice the indentured servants type of slavery.
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Oct 31, 2018 10:51
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GrossMurpel posted:Cons: AFAIR Pavetta already had a "bun in her oven" when Geralt saved Duny.
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Oct 31, 2018 10:59
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Avalerion posted:Afaik they practice the indentured servants type of slavery. That's literally the entire Witcher universe. What do you think being a serf was?
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Oct 31, 2018 11:00
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