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Furnaceface posted:Didnt the Liberals basically spend the last month of the campaign propping up Ford and all out attacking Horwath and the NDP? Horwath still sucks but its not like there wasnt a very effective and coordinated campaign from the other 2 parties to discredit her as much as humanly possible. Yeah, as milquetoast as the NDP usually is it's important to remember the entire corporate media establishment will also turn against them the instant it looks as if they're a threat to the libcon order
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Oct 30, 2018 03:59
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Can he even see his wiener with that gut (no)
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Oct 30, 2018 05:03
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lol looks like something made by grade 10 graphic design student
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Oct 30, 2018 11:53
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RBC posted:lol looks like something made by grade 10 graphic design student Wow it looks just like the neon open sign on my lovely small business! Doug Ford man of the people!
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Oct 30, 2018 11:55
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"my giant nintendo switch will bring us everlasting prosperity" only by defeating the premier in mario kart can you unseat him Yinlock fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 12:01
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Furnaceface posted:Didnt the Liberals basically spend the last month of the campaign propping up Ford and all out attacking Horwath and the NDP? Horwath still sucks but its not like there wasnt a very effective and coordinated campaign from the other 2 parties to discredit her as much as humanly possible. they also actively spread misinformation about how majorities work so yeah agreed on both counts: horwarth fuckin sucks but was also clearly sabotaged
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Oct 30, 2018 12:02
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I'll bite, I don't totally get the Horwath hate. She hasn't seemed to swing quite as aggressively to the centre as the Federal NDP has, she has pretty strong workers / union cred, I thought the NDP provincial platform was pretty good, and the party has improved their seat count every election since she's been leader. What's to hate?
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Oct 30, 2018 12:19
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She had all the zesty tang of a communion wafer in the previous election and nobody seemed to get over it, which was a shame because they would've been a sensible option if only the Libs could keep their sights on the real problem and split the vote and oh right we lose that way too. Apparently saying things like "human dignity good" or "polluted hellscape bad" makes you a radical I always saw myself as more of a tubular dude.
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Oct 30, 2018 13:35
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But what about radical Wayne?
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Oct 30, 2018 14:11
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https://twitter.com/ProgressAlberta/status/1056967589656752128?s=19
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Oct 30, 2018 14:19
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enki42 posted:I'll bite, I don't totally get the Horwath hate. She hasn't seemed to swing quite as aggressively to the centre as the Federal NDP has, she has pretty strong workers / union cred, I thought the NDP provincial platform was pretty good, and the party has improved their seat count every election since she's been leader. What's to hate? Several problems. 1. The majority of the electorate isn’t a politics nerd like we are so they fall for typical campaign nonsense. 2. Character sells more than substance. Andrea comes across as a pontificating, nosy neighbourhood mom who breaks up the fun when other peoples kids get a little too rowdy on the playground. 3. Extremely shallow benches. A lot of people in her shadow cabinet have almost no political experience and in the eyes of many viewed to be incompetent and lacking the necessary traits required in getting things done. 4. When you look at a lot of NDP MPs they’re basically placeholder candidates so when they get analyzed more deeply during an upswing in the polls the entirety of their bench looks like Swiss cheese. Overall it looks like a first year university politics club rather than a serious political party capable of governing a province where all the major financial centres of the country are located. The NDP have been unfairly tarred and feathered as an impractical, inexperienced and deceptive party that wouldn’t do much to repair the economy. A lot of people like Ford’s “get er done” attitude because they have felt like years of liberal governments have done nothing and squandered all their political capital on scandals and grift. This isn’t entirely untrue but the NDP are viewed as nuttier leftier Liberals whose policies have been unfairly blamed for a lot of misery and economic destitution people have been facing. In other words a large enough chunk of the electorate bought the line that Ford would be “good for business” and with less limits on business would result in more jobs and a stronger more competitive economy. If the NDP really want to win they need an extremely charismatic and personally popular candidate to drive people out into the polls the way Trudeau and Layton did during their election blow outs. The question is how do you get a guy like that AND keep them ideologically pure rather than another right wing centrist.
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Oct 30, 2018 14:57
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Welp, there goes my morning.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:10
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Show of hands, who is surprised?
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Oct 30, 2018 15:18
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Kenney defeats Notley by a landslide.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:Kenney defeats Notley by a landslide.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:09
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Kraftwerk posted:Several problems. You appear to be saying that people don't pay attention to politics, but also people won't vote for candidates because they've paid enough attention to tell that the candidates are inexperienced. Also, this seems to ignore that Sam Oosterhoff is now a sitting OPC MPP
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Oct 30, 2018 16:20
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infernal machines posted:You appear to be saying that people don't pay attention to politics, but also people won't vote for candidates because they've paid enough attention to tell that the candidates are inexperienced. Also, this seems to ignore that Sam Oosterhoff is now a sitting OPC MPP I think it's less that and more that the NDP had a bunch of candidates that had some highly visible clickbaity things in their history, and no real legislative experience to temper that. It's less that people are digging into NDP candidates themselves, it's that the candidates provide a never-ending stream of bad-looking headlines for Postmedia to slander the party with. I totally get why the general population doesn't love Horwath, and I agree with everything Kraftwerk said. My point was even left-leaning folks who are big politics nerds seem to have it out for her. And IMO the problems with the NDP having a shallow bench are bigger than Horwath specifically.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:29
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Nobody actually cares about shallow benches or placeholder candidates or checkered pasts in any real capacity.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:34
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leftist heap posted:Nobody actually cares about shallow benches or placeholder candidates or checkered pasts in any real capacity. They don't need to care about them in any real capacity, they just need something of "but her emails" quality for the blowhards to latch onto. What confused me is how "this radical candidate posted a quote by hitler, that means they like hitler" pushed conservative voters away from her.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:49
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infernal machines posted:You appear to be saying that people don't pay attention to politics, but also people won't vote for candidates because they've paid enough attention to tell that the candidates are inexperienced. Also, this seems to ignore that Sam Oosterhoff is now a sitting OPC MPP You can’t compare Sam Oosterhoff with any NDP candidates because his credentials appeal to the religious right who doesn’t care about political experience. That’s a guaranteed constituency for you. I’m talking about seats that could theoretically be in play for the NDP and swing towards them. Its more about professionalism and looking like a serious government with actual policy alternatives spoken of from a position of superficial authority. Compare for example Sandy Shaw to Vic Fedelli. Ideologically she’s good but compared to Vic’s resume she seems unsuited to the role of finance minister. And if you dig deeper you’re basically giving a 150k salary to Starbucks baristas and campus activists. In the eyes of a lot of people that looks unprofessional and wasteful and makes it difficult to take the NDP seriously. People go into politics for personal gain. It’s noble and wonderful to be ideological but if you’re just looking to serve and win elections you’ll throw your skills behind the party you think is most likely to win. That means the NDP has a shortage of talent since it’s a catch 22 of requiring talent to win but not winning because losing doesn’t attract talent. The smart people will run with a party they think have a solid chance of winning with. The ideologues and campus activists will run no matter what because they’re true believers. In 2018 you’re only going to win elections with one of 3 strategies: 1. A populist agenda (left or right) with demagoguery tactics 2. Charismatic leadership balanced against uniform professionalism (recall the fanfare of Trudeau’s cabinet getting sworn in everyone felt confidence they’re getting an expert government of superheroes like Sajjan for example) the optics matter. 3. Controlling the media narrative and mastering how to move viral campaigns and talking points into the public psyche. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 17:02
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I noticed everyone talking about "ideology" and "agendas" during the Victoria election. It seems like a trend on the right to accuse everyone they don't like as "having an agenda" or "being driven by ideology" while their candidates of course don't have any agenda or ideology beyond "common sense good government". So many of these people are folks who consider them selves quite fair and educated and neutral and I can't tell if they believe their own bullshit or not. It will be stuff like: "Building bike lanes is guided entirely by ideology, there's no use to them but these people have an ideological need to make it harder to drive in the city" "More parking? No that's not an ideology, that's just listening to our business community's facts that there isn't enough parking in the city" "Our opponents have an agenda, I don't like people with agendas. For instance, the mayor wants to push more supportive housing on our neighbourhoods, people need to be wary of politicians with agendas" "What? Blocking new developments in our single family home neighbourhoods isn't an agenda, it's just protecting neighbourhood character, it's called listening to the taxpayers, that's how democracy is supposed to work, not pushing agendas" I think they have this idea that their ideology and their agendas are supported by the silent majority so politicians perusing them are just being good democratic leaders who listen to the true will of the people. But things like bike lanes or homeless shelters, no one but "special interest groups" want those so it's the government forcing things on the majority that don't want them, and thus ideological agenda-pushing. I can sort of see some logic in that, it's bad logic, but there's some consistency. Sometimes governments do things that would lose a referendum but that's always been part of their mandate and why we elect leaders rather than have a direct democracy on every single issue. It's a weird thing to get upset about, but I could see that angle. Where it all breaks down though is that they will keep using that same language, accusing politicians of having "agendas" and "putting ideology ahead of democracy" even when a politician or party absolutely sweeps an election by making their "agenda" extremely clear. No no, the electorate was tricked, they don't understand how ideological these agendas are! We need to stop electing politicians with ideologies into office. What's a non-ideological politician? Apparently it's what ever they personally think is a "pragmatic centrist" based on their own personal overton window. It just so happens that the NDP are extreme-double-marxist-left, the liberals are only dangerously left on social issues, and the conservatives are in this perfect pragmatic centrist zone free from all ideology.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:09
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Hector Bremner was using the same strategy in Vancouver. He was broadly painting every other idea every other candidate had as just "politics" and a sham, and he and only he had the real solution and was actually going to tackle the housing crisis successfully. He also positioned the YES party as post-partisan, post-ideology and as having conservatives, ndp and liberals. This wasn't too dissimilar from the classic "outsider comes to shake up the status quo" type campaign (which Layton used to great success), but I feel he took it much further than typical. Some great lines did come out of this strategy. In one radio debate he said of ex-MPs Wai Young and Kennedy Stewart, "we don't need more Ottawa in Vancouver" and stating "federal politics have broken them" after the two had trotted out some canned talking points. The problem though was that I don't think Bremner was humble enough to pull it off. He's a smooth operator communications specialist, and so the whole "only I can fix this" angle came across as self-aggrandizing.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:36
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Does anyone know much about municipal taxation powers? I know property tax is pretty much the only way for cities here to fund things, it's not like some places specially in europe where larger cities are often their own mini-states and can have city income or sales taxes. But even within the scope of property taxes, how much power do our cities have? I imagine in our incredibly tax-averse society that's also quite averse to giving cities powers there's various provincial regulations controlling how much cities can raise property tax revenue? What I'm more directly curious about are options for our cities to tackle the housing crisis by enacting polices that make land-speculation much less enticing but without hurting poor ol' granny who's barely surviving on her pension in her tiny 2 million dollar bungalow. -How much power do cities have to raise money through increased property taxation? -How much freedom do cities have to adjust how those taxes are collected and assessed for each property? For example could one have more "progressive" property taxes where a million dollar property doesn't pay 10x more in property taxes than a 100k property, it ends up paying like 12 or 13x as much? -Can cities even think about anything like taxing the land value gains from upzoning or the profits from speculation sales? -Can cities apply different tax rates or special taxes based on the use of the land or other arbitrary factors? Like tax rentals less than condos, or penalties/discounts based on rents per square footage? Could a municipal party that makes it very clear they have an extreme agenda to tax the gently caress out of land ownership to tank land prices and collect a massive warchest to buy up the now depressed land and cover it with affordable city-owned housing actually do so if they won?
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Oct 30, 2018 17:57
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In Ontario at least it's up to the province what powers the city is delegated re: taxation. Traditionally it's been property taxes, but in Toronto's case, the updated City of Toronto act allowed us to levy the Land Transfer Tax and the Vehicle Registration Tax (which was immediately repealed by Ford the Fatter), as well as some other fees and tolls we've never had the votes to implement. Of course, this means the province can also revoke those abilities at any time, and very likely would were we to try to implement any revenue tools that might actually begin to cover our needs. We have jurisdiction over the mill rate, but it's designated by zoned use rather than value. To my knowledge we've never had the ability to implement things like direct payroll or sales taxes, but I'm not certain about that. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 18:49
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Femtosecond posted:Hector Bremner was using the same strategy in Vancouver. He was broadly painting every other idea every other candidate had as just "politics" and a sham, and he and only he had the real solution and was actually going to tackle the housing crisis successfully. He also positioned the YES party as post-partisan, post-ideology and as having conservatives, ndp and liberals. This wasn't too dissimilar from the classic "outsider comes to shake up the status quo" type campaign (which Layton used to great success), but I feel he took it much further than typical. Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 18:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiIxFgvh3I great cool
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Oct 30, 2018 19:45
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Frightening Knight posted:I’m not going to speak to Canadian politics and I know things are dire right now, but please tone it down a bit. free ci
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Oct 30, 2018 20:20
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Not sure why the Conservative critic is saying two debates are too few, considering Harper declined appearance for them last time. 
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Oct 30, 2018 21:26
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infernal machines posted:Vic "dipshit" Fedeli says it's because drug dealers didn't properly report their sales, so they had no idea there was so much demand. Drug dealers suck at Excel. Thanks a lot, Trudeau. Also with regard to Scheer ads, they've been running constantly during hockey games since the season properly started you drat nerds.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:37
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InfiniteZero posted:Drug dealers suck at Excel. Thanks a lot, Trudeau. Normal people change channels before Don comes on though so they probably dont see them.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:41
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Furnaceface posted:Normal people change channels before Don comes on though so they probably dont see them. I watch hockey at a bar as god intended so whenever Scheer comes on that just means I can properly focus on my pizza or popcorn or whatever.
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Oct 30, 2018 22:15
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Baronjutter posted:Does anyone know much about municipal taxation powers? I know property tax is pretty much the only way for cities here to fund things, it's not like some places specially in europe where larger cities are often their own mini-states and can have city income or sales taxes. But even within the scope of property taxes, how much power do our cities have? I imagine in our incredibly tax-averse society that's also quite averse to giving cities powers there's various provincial regulations controlling how much cities can raise property tax revenue? It obviously varies from municipality to municipality. Vancouver for instance is locked into a series of regulations that would largely prevent a progressive property tax - eg. S 374.2 of the Vancouver Charter requires that each property class be taxed at the same rate. So the most simple route to a progressive property tax - set rates based on value - is precluded without provincial legislative change. That said, COPE and OneCity ran (and were elected to Council) on platforms to implement a progressive property tax on property over a certain assessed value. OneCity has also proposed a "Land Value Capture Tax" that would do what you suggest here - tax land value gains from upzoning and infrastructure development. It is unclear how either of these things might be accomplished using only the city's power.
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Oct 30, 2018 23:55
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https://twitter.com/jmcguirecbc/status/1057399113279594496?s=21 https://twitter.com/dril/status/831805955402776576?s=21
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Oct 31, 2018 00:05
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In continuing Albertan news, Jason Kenney continues to associate with and hire far right individuals, most recently an anti-semitic white nationalist: https://pressprogress.ca/meet-the-anti-semitic-white-nationalist-who-ran-jason-kenneys-call-centre/ If Kenney can't control his parties bugfuckery this long, I shudder to think what he'll be like if he's elected. On the upside, I hope that people will start moving away from the UCP after all this crap.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:44
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Lien posted:On the upside, I hope that people will start moving away from the UCP after all this crap. Ron Howard narrator voice: They didn't
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Oct 31, 2018 00:46
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Gotta tell both sides of the story - vaccines - Jordan Peterson - pipelines e: referring to CBC's non-apology about great business opportunities in Brazil
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Oct 31, 2018 00:47
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We want evidence based policy!quote:“It was the Conservative government who chose to stop the long-form census,” Trudeau shot back. “What that led to was more policy based on ideology and less policy based on evidence like we are doing now. Their attacks on data and information continue.” Well played buddy.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:51
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You need information to craft policy based off evidence, so yeah.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:05
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:You need information to craft policy based off evidence, so yeah. Unless it's relating to pipelines.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:18
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Baronjutter posted:Unless it's relating to pipelines. Well duh!
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Oct 31, 2018 01:37
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