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Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't think there is any coming back for them now. They have a lot of ground to make up, and a huge lack of interest to overcome. And their other projects are bombing. This makes me physically uncomfortable.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:44
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They can't trick me into buying Monpoc after cancelling the last one before finishing the final line for it. Oh and also lying to people (Including press gangers) and saying that wave was coming when they knew it wasn't.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:47
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Black_Nexus posted:They can't trick me into buying Monpoc after cancelling the last one before finishing the final line for it. I feel like anyone who still buys their secondary products deserves to get their money taken at this point. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 135 times, well....my bad. Their batting average on non Warmahordes is approaching .000~. The only good thing they have made other than that was Level 7. Original MonPoc had a large novelty factor and was fun, but that game dying came as no suprise to me. People talk about the betrayal and all that, which is true. However, the game was obviously going to die. Reading the symbols on the monsters became hieroglyphics.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:54
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Mugaaz posted:I feel like anyone who still buys their secondary products deserves to get their money taken at this point. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 135 times, well....my bad. Their batting average on non Warmahordes is approaching .000~. The only good thing they have made other than that was Level 7. Original MonPoc had a large novelty factor and was fun, but that game dying came as no suprise to me. People talk about the betrayal and all that, which is true. However, the game was obviously going to die. Reading the symbols on the monsters became hieroglyphics. I don't see how it was obvious, the game sold quite well in my local area and we had monthly events with the mega forms as prizes, and then after the 5th wave they just stopped giving out prizes and went silent about it.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:59
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Black_Nexus posted:I don't see how it was obvious, the game sold quite well in my local area and we had monthly events with the mega forms as prizes, and then after the 5th wave they just stopped giving out prizes and went silent about it. I played so much Monpoc because I loved the Martians, but after a few weeks of the same few games over and over something flipped a switch in the local community and it was never mentioned again.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:19
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I played so much Monpoc because I loved the Martians, but after a few weeks of the same few games over and over something flipped a switch in the local community and it was never mentioned again. This was my experience. Insane hype, tons of games events for first couple months (that were legitimately pretty fun), followed by complete silence. People didn't say anything bad, no spite or anger, just complete indifference.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:23
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Pardon my ignorance here but what's Monpoc? And holy poo poo yeah the prices on current WMH stuff is frankly insane - and I'm a newbie that thinks the game is neat and was/am actively trying to buy in. I really thought they had a much more solid handle on the business side of things when I first checked them out years ago, right as Sigmar first happened (not that I played WH by then, just to give some sense of time). Has their molding process gotten better so you don't spend more time cleaning up lines and gouges than actually painting?
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Oct 31, 2018 01:33
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The last stretch of time I was buying Warmahordes stuff, from like late last year to earlier this year, quality was all over the place because they had a handful of different materials. There were a couple of combined metal/resin kits with a crisp, clean resin that I was pretty impressed with, there were nasty-rear end mushy completely plastic or resin models with nightmarish flash and mold lines, and solos and stuff were still entirely metal and were pretty clean as well. So I guess the answer is no.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:43
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't think there is any coming back for them now. They have a lot of ground to make up, and a huge lack of interest to overcome. And their other projects are bombing. I refuse to watch this
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Oct 31, 2018 01:46
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food court bailiff posted:Pardon my ignorance here but what's Monpoc? Their models quality hasn't gone down, it may have even improved. However, everyone else has improved far, far more than PP has. Almost every miniatures company is now putting stuff out that is far higher quality and most of is is also cheaper. Their sculpts have not impressed me in a long time.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:49
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Ugleb posted:2 questions, if balance is generally good, what was the issue with that faction? And what makes you think they are looking to sell up? That faction got "balanced" in the initial launch of the new edition into being completely average at everything with no strengths to speak of. Skorne wasn't regarded as a top tier faction in the previous edition, and they largely made it worse in every way that it was previously regarded as strong. This got outlined in a post where they admitted that they basically made the faction boring, and some time later an errata completely overhauled it and it sits pretty greatly at the moment. As for trying to get sold, they shut down a VERY recently relaunched physical magazine with little fanfare, dramatically cleared their existing warehouse space at firesale prices, and have been actively pursuing collaborations with other companies, such as making L5R miniatures for their "monthly crate" style service, and they're down to a much, much smaller staff than was normal previously.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:05
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Gorefiend posted:Former and current Warmachine/Hordes player and former press ganger here, it's a combination of several factors; Don't forget getting rid of the cards in boxes and going to the app that you have to buy the cards on As someone at retail, "everything you need is in the box, gently caress a codex" was a huge selling point and now nope
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Oct 31, 2018 02:33
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To steer this thread back to painting chat, it’s also extremely cool how most warmahordes battlefields are a mix of grey, pewter and single color soft plastic because no one bothers to paint anything.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:57
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tallkidwithglasses posted:To steer this thread back to painting chat, it’s also extremely cool how most warmahordes battlefields are a mix of grey, pewter and single color soft plastic because no one bothers to paint anything. Speak for yourself. I paint my stuff, and wouldn't you know just having a single modestly painted force out there is enough to get more people to do it. We've also taken to putting 3D terrain on top of the 2D versions, so you get the asthetic but can become hyper accurate if you need to. It's little things that really up the asthetic quality of a game and get people pumped to play. If anything, it's better than what I saw most of the time when I played WFB all the time. Painting 20-60 dudes is a lot different and less daunting than 100-200. It also means that you aren't devoting months to getting a force done, and can instead usually grind something out in a month at worst.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:11
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We already had a painting argument. Anyway, my favorite thing about the Mk3 WM/H launch was this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_M2TMPfeM making a good faith effort at making Skorne work and just throwing in the towel 3 episodes in. I mean, I don't know if the faction just sucking was the actual reason he stopped, but it's still funny to me.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:14
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rkajdi posted:Speak for yourself. I paint my stuff, and wouldn't you know just having a single modestly painted force out there is enough to get more people to do it. We've also taken to putting 3D terrain on top of the 2D versions, so you get the asthetic but can become hyper accurate if you need to. It's little things that really up the asthetic quality of a game and get people pumped to play. I’m just saying whenever I see it getting played that generally over half the models out are unpainted.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:15
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It's definitely the most sea of metal game out there apart from my own armies. The tables kinda look bad too. A wall, two small hills and a forest. Done. Usually in 2d material too like the MOM stuff.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:30
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Yeah I get that the intent is to emphasize that it’s more of a tactical board game than a classic tabletop war game but what was likely something PP intended as a way to lower the entry bar just ended up being a playerbase that generally doesn’t really give a gently caress what the table looks like. All this at the GW price point too.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:36
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Against my better judgement, I watched that Riot Quest video. That's a minute of my life I'll never get back. 
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Oct 31, 2018 03:40
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Ilor posted:Against my better judgement, I watched that Riot Quest video. That's a minute of my life I'll never get back. 
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Oct 31, 2018 12:57
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The new BattleTech boxed sets are coming - maybe - possibly - probably - soon. https://bg.battletech.com/news/battletech-boxed-sets-update-2/ I expect the ship carrying the sets will sink in the Panama Canal
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Oct 31, 2018 13:57
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Don't forget getting rid of the cards in boxes and going to the app that you have to buy the cards on They also offer the cards online for free to print out yourself.
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Oct 31, 2018 14:28
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Yeah I get that the intent is to emphasize that it’s more of a tactical board game than a classic tabletop war game but what was likely something PP intended as a way to lower the entry bar just ended up being a playerbase that generally doesn’t really give a gently caress what the table looks like. All this at the GW price point too. The community seems very meta focused which I guess leads to stuff being seen as more disposable as players move onto the next thing rapidly to keep up with flavour of the month. Warmahordes looks to be built around competitive gaming so maybe attracts gamers over hobbyists? If 3rd edition screwed up the competitive scene I can see how that might knock the wind out of the game as a whole. Also, a lot of the companies we are discussing as stalling lately also seem to have dropped their volunteer programs along the way. Privateer killed theirs and when Hawk sold up to TTcombat the Talon program was dropped in the shuffle. Suddenly it's hard to find a Dropzone of Dropfleet event outside of a major convention.
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Oct 31, 2018 14:41
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DrPop posted:The new BattleTech boxed sets are coming - maybe - possibly - probably - soon. News about these is so sporadic that I have to go look up what the boxes are every time something new comes out
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Oct 31, 2018 14:48
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To those of you that expressed interest in Gaslands I made a thread, so feel free to check it out. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873025
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Oct 31, 2018 14:52
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Indolent Bastard posted:To those of you that expressed interest in Gaslands I made a thread, so feel free to check it out. That's a nice op but we already have a Gaslands thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3860130
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Oct 31, 2018 14:54
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:That's a nice op but we already have a Gaslands thread Odd. I looked for one and didn't see it. Well, poo poo. 
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Oct 31, 2018 14:59
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Privateer Press also keeps making more limited release factions. I think its their designer being like, "you know what would be cool!" and not thinking about the fact that if you just release a limited amount of models for a faction they either have to be kinda broken to remain competitive or they get drowned in the flood of new releases for the major factions. They have now released basically 3 mini factions that don't really get releases to support them, don't often get updates, but are things I have to remember about if I play in tournaments on the off chance someone shows up with them because warmachine is a game where if you have no idea what your opponents stuff does you probably are gonna lose. To me its really aggravating, I don't feel like a game can support having both living factions that get new releases and temporary factions that are 1 and done releases. I feel like you have to choose one or the other or it just leads to bad bloat.
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Oct 31, 2018 15:07
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To be fair GW is doing the same thing with AoS factions. It gives an army with a new aesthetic to potentially draw in new customers or spear some whales into dropping hundreds on a new faction. Also simpler to balance since you can design all the elements together instead of adding a new unit and figuring out how to make it distinctive but not overpowered with all of the existing pieces.
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Oct 31, 2018 15:29
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The little baby factions make sense as a way to encourage invested players to spin up a side project without feeling committed to a whole full-size faction. They do not make sense at all in a game where the meta is as important as it is in warmahordes, because as posters here have stated, they’re either going to be sort of broken or just totally irrelevant since they all tend to be one trick ponies relative to the variety a full faction can have.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:22
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GW can get away with smaller model ranges in AoS because a lot of those boxes build more than one kind of unit, and because there's an allying/mixed forces system that lets you pretty much just throw together whatever kind of list you want instead of having to go mono faction. I don't think PP does either of those things, or at least they didn't last time I played. There were upgrade kits, I think, to turn models into different units? Either way I'd prefer larger, more complete model ranges but there are a lot of logistical issues with that.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:29
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:That's a nice op but we already have a Gaslands thread the new thread is way better for OP.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:58
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Yeah, the other thread was apparently about Car Wars for the first page, so there's a lot of weird stuff there.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:13
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tallkidwithglasses posted:The little baby factions make sense as a way to encourage invested players to spin up a side project without feeling committed to a whole full-size faction. Of course the insidious downside is that it encourages Pokemonitis, because you'll find yourself thinking, "well, since I already bought a couple of Nomad dudes to run a QK list, if I buy just a few more I could run a full Nomad list..."
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Oct 31, 2018 18:11
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Warmachine has been moving to subfactions pretty much across the board. They came into the issue of having a hard time making new product without it stepping on the toes if an older release, so themes are a way to effectively break the main factions down into smaller, more manageable pieces. It works well for game design and balance, but it plays hell on some older collections when suddenly you can't use those two units together in the same theme (themes are effectively mandatory). This means that the smaller factions aren't really any different than just another theme within a main faction. There are implications for multi list tournament play, but in any given game they're pretty similar. They're all fairly self contained, and have plenty of tricks that will table you if you're not ready. It is a complex game with a lot of interaction points and an unfortunately unforgiving metagame, but I don't see how you avoid the issue while still offering gameplay of that depth and interactivity. It's a game I wish I were more interested in playing, by but my runewars sycophancy leaves no time for it.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:12
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Ilor posted:Infinity has an interesting take on this, which is that there are sub-factions within the game that are essentially "cross-overs" which blend select units from two different major factions. It's a nice way to ease your way into collecting an entirely new faction, in that you can pick up just a handful of models from a different range and still be able to field a fully playable force. Sectorals in infinty are just theme lists from Warmachine pretty much, not much difference between the two. I don't see why people are so negative about limited release armies in Warmachine. Almost every faction in every game is a "limited release" and it works just fine. I got a million problems with Warmachine and this doesn't make the list for me.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:16
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Mugaaz posted:I don't see why people are so negative about limited release armies in Warmachine. Almost every faction in every game is a "limited release" and it works just fine. I got a million problems with Warmachine and this doesn't make the list for me. I think they’re fine in concept, but in practice a highly synergistic force that will almost never get new units after its release will naturally not play well in a game like warmahordes that’s so metagame/competitive play driven- they’ll either need to be powerful enough to hang with the larger factions (in which case they’ll be obnoxious because a small model range will likely mean a linear playstyle that doesn’t change up much between games), or they’ll end up being totally irrelevant.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:35
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MCPeePants posted:
I love the runewars game. However, the dumb soft plastic FFG uses for it and legion/assault are so frustrating to remove mold lines. X-wing is the same but at least they’re prepainted and the lines naturally occur at less noticeable areas due to the fact that they’re spaceships. Took me a long time to even get the lines off the caterpillar skeleton Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 18:41
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I think the boringness of the modern themes being mostly 'you get some extra guys free for taking the stuff you already have to take' is a pretty good contributor to what knocked the wind out of MkIII's sails. I think a lot of the expectation was that they wouldn't be caster-specific like MkIIs yet still allow for new army dynamics while giving them the chance to be better balanced than some of MkIIs which ranged from laughably bad to must-take meta bending. Instead for most they just lumped models together by in lore theming and called it a day.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:41
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A netrunner person might have a more accurate take on this, but netrunner did have subfactions, and some of them seemed pretty cool (there was a super sentient virus called Apex, and he looked super cool). They had similar issues in that they were more limited than normal factions and it was more difficult to balance them.
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