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Mors Rattus posted:Bans seem to work well enough for rpgnet, in the sense that they make people unreasonably angry when received. Kai Tave posted:Christ ain't that the truth. I don't remember the details but I'm pretty sure that years ago we permabanned someone for trying to guess your password after you probated them 
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Oct 31, 2018 11:17
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Skelettin posted:I don't remember the details but I'm pretty sure that years ago we permabanned someone for trying to guess your password after you probated them Yep, that's a thing that happened. Over a thread ban by the way, the mods telling someone "hey you're being an rear end in a top hat in this one specific thread so leave, but you can continue to post literally anywhere else on the entire forum." The dude got so incensed that he worked himself up to a full-on probation. The next day I wake up and I have an email saying that my RPGnet account is on lockdown because of too many incorrect passwords. When the admins checked the IP addresses of the attempted logins one of them was a match for the same guy. Absolutely fuckin bonkers that some people are like that.
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Oct 31, 2018 11:24
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Kai Tave posted:Yep, that's a thing that happened. Over a thread ban by the way, the mods telling someone "hey you're being an rear end in a top hat in this one specific thread so leave, but you can continue to post literally anywhere else on the entire forum." The dude got so incensed that he worked himself up to a full-on probation. The next day I wake up and I have an email saying that my RPGnet account is on lockdown because of too many incorrect passwords. When the admins checked the IP addresses of the attempted logins one of them was a match for the same guy. Absolutely fuckin bonkers that some people are like that. And one loses count of people doing a Mrs. Lovejoy "Everyone, turn around and LOOK AT THIS" press conference post when they get unofficial warnings in threads. And they're not even the kind of warning that gets put up on the Trouble Tickets Hall of Shame forum, just a mod going 'ease back.' Even I've gotten a couple of those from my devil-may-care posting style. They're literally the lightest moderation you can possibly receive with no consequence other than 'hey keep this in mind not to do in the future' and people will still go all the way out of their entire drat minds.
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Oct 31, 2018 13:17
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Leperflesh posted:e. but I'm very convinced that having to lose :tenbux: every time you have to re-reg is a pretty effective filter for this stuff too, discouraging a lot of the casual impulse poo poo and generating constant revenue streams from the really dedicated assholes. Yeah, but you have to have a forum that people will pay for. I honestly don't know if we have that. Mors Rattus posted:Bans seem to work well enough for rpgnet, in the sense that they make people unreasonably angry when received. Yes. It is amazing how seriously people take it.
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Oct 31, 2018 14:50
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Comrade Gorbash posted:That's true but no one wants to be the test case. And I think folks can be forgiven in the current day to be a bit leery of just assuming governments will stick to the intent of a law. Hundreds of US websites and companies aren't in compliance. hundreds of UK companies and websites aren't in compliance, especially sites such as the daily mail, with their awful, awful opt-out system. At the point the EU decides to start going down the list of companies to go after, rpgnet will be way near the bottom to look at.
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Oct 31, 2018 14:58
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I think people especially hate thread bans because it's basically Mom and Dad coming down to declare that the other guy wins the argument.
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Oct 31, 2018 15:01
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While the rpgnet ban has had a fair amount of conservative attention, with the likes of 'i'm a massive misogynist liar' hambly posting about it on the youtubes and gamergate sites all doing their usual 'but they're the real monsters' (and what is it with this whole NPC thing, it doesn't make any sense?), reddit's /rpg thread was pretty broadly supportive, likewise mashup and resetera. Pundit, of course, is going further down his alt-right spiral in ranting about it, as are a lot of the 'honestly we're not the alt right even though we publish lots of alt-right material' OSR usual suspects.
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Oct 31, 2018 15:03
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PST posted:While the rpgnet ban has had a fair amount of conservative attention, with the likes of 'i'm a massive misogynist liar' hambly posting about it on the youtubes and gamergate sites all doing their usual 'but they're the real monsters' (and what is it with this whole NPC thing, it doesn't make any sense?), reddit's /rpg thread was pretty broadly supportive, likewise mashup and resetera. "NPC" is the newest alt-right weirdass slur, like cuck. In this case, it is literally about depersoning people - an NPC isn't a person and can be killed without consequence. e: surprised Pundit's not too busy trumpeting Bolsonaro, tho.
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Oct 31, 2018 15:08
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The response to the meme was really loving stupid because it could VERY EASILY be used against the very people who popularized it but no one had the insight to do so. Put a loving MAGA hat on that robot wojak, make it repeat ((())) and white supremacist poor faith tripe and boom! Who's the NPC now.
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Oct 31, 2018 15:10
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Plutonis posted:The response to the meme was really loving stupid because it could VERY EASILY be used against the very people who popularized it but no one had the insight to do so. Put a loving MAGA hat on that robot wojak, make it repeat ((())) and white supremacist poor faith tripe and boom! Who's the NPC now. i've actually seen quite a few of these and they're remarkably effective at riling up chuds
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Oct 31, 2018 15:13
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PST posted:While the rpgnet ban has had a fair amount of conservative attention, with the likes of 'i'm a massive misogynist liar' hambly posting about it on the youtubes and gamergate sites all doing their usual 'but they're the real monsters' (and what is it with this whole NPC thing, it doesn't make any sense?), reddit's /rpg thread was pretty broadly supportive, likewise mashup and resetera. It does seem like the sort of thing that'd lead to retributive doxxing and mass harassment of RPGnet's mods and admins by different alt-right groups. Lord knows milder mod actions here have gotten people doxxed. I hope everyone stays safe. e- NPC is also based around some convoluted logic that internet leftists all follow the same "script" in internet discourse, which depending on how deep-in the alt-righter is, is confirmation that leftists are faking it or outright don't have souls and distinct personalities. Essentially, if every conversation with internet strangers leads to the alt-righter being called a racist, it's not because they are a racist but because they're dealing with mindless automatons they can crush. It's the next stage in self-delusional coping mechanisms people insulate themselves in to avoid admitting they're a noxious person. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 15:38
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I'm surprised the thread is still open at this point given the mods have said there's nothing really to discuss and you get people signing up to say things like 'I am a LGTBQ guy from Poland and Trump is big in Poland and you can ban me but not Poland.' Surely the returns have diminished at this point.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:05
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Dawgstar posted:I'm surprised the thread is still open at this point given the mods have said there's nothing really to discuss and you get people signing up to say things like 'I am a LGTBQ guy from Poland and Trump is big in Poland and you can ban me but not Poland.' Surely the returns have diminished at this point. There's also a huge tide of folks signing up to go 'this is cool and good, thanks' which the mods seem to be enjoying.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:06
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NPCs is a weaponized version of p-zombies for idiots.PST posted:Hundreds of US websites and companies aren't in compliance. hundreds of UK companies and websites aren't in compliance, especially sites such as the daily mail, with their awful, awful opt-out system. At the point the EU decides to start going down the list of companies to go after, rpgnet will be way near the bottom to look at.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:33
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PST posted:Pundit, of course, is going further down his alt-right spiral in ranting about it, as are a lot of the 'honestly we're not the alt right even though we publish lots of alt-right material' OSR usual suspects. There's not a week that goes by that I don't at least once both sort of miss the OSR blog I used to run years back, and swear by all the gods once again that I will never dare to go back. The sewage was already seeping years ago (if sometimes wretchedly subtle about it, like the "compliment" one blogger kept repeating about me constantly) and every time I peek back it makes it more and more obvious that I am far better off staying gone. I don't even know who the entire list of the usual suspects are at this point, and I don't need to. I don't, and wouldn't, feel comfortable or safe if I tried to dip back into that pond, no matter how much I like thegames themselves. Which is depressing at times, but oh well? Others have had much worse than I have at the hands of these jackasses.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:42
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taichara posted:There's not a week that goes by that I don't at least once both sort of miss the OSR blog I used to run years back, and swear by all the gods once again that I will never dare to go back. The sewage was already seeping years ago (if sometimes wretchedly subtle about it, like the "compliment" one blogger kept repeating about me constantly) and every time I peek back it makes it more and more obvious that I am far better off staying gone. I don't even know who the entire list of the usual suspects are at this point, and I don't need to. I don't, and wouldn't, feel comfortable or safe if I tried to dip back into that pond, no matter how much I like thegames themselves.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:50
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I honestly wonder if it would be worth coming up with a different name for the OSR concept but for non-toxic people interested in that space. Hell yes. I love the idea behind OSR, but a lot of the people pushing it? Not so much.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:55
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I honestly wonder if it would be worth coming up with a different name for the OSR concept but for non-toxic people interested in that space. Trying to reclaim the OSR community at this point is a fool's errand, but the top-line concept of revisiting old games and iterating on dormant design concepts is good on its own. Until it could at all be done without immediately having the avalanche of the current OSR coming down like a pack of rabid rabid wombats, it's probably better left alone, much as it's a warm feeling to think about. I mean those people have gatekeeping built right into the basic mantra at this point; it feels like it would be holding up a red flag in front of the metaphorical bull and screaming "we're right here".
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Oct 31, 2018 16:57
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Comrade Gorbash posted:NPCs is a weaponized version of p-zombies for idiots. P-zombies are already for idiots from step one, hth.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:57
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Cessna posted:Hell yes.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:57
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rkajdi posted:P-zombies are already for idiots from step one, hth. As a thought experiment for explaining why physicalisn is more coherent than non-physical accounts of qualia, they're useful. It's when people start believing they're not totally incoherent that they're for idiots.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:12
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taichara posted:Until it could at all be done without immediately having the avalanche of the current OSR coming down like a pack of rabid rabid wombats, it's probably better left alone, much as it's a warm feeling to think about. I mean those people have gatekeeping built right into the basic mantra at this point; it feels like it would be holding up a red flag in front of the metaphorical bull and screaming "we're right here". Give it an extremely woke name they wouldn't want to associate with, like "global inclusive rules" or something.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:13
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taichara posted:Until it could at all be done without immediately having the avalanche of the current OSR coming down like a pack of rabid rabid wombats, it's probably better left alone, much as it's a warm feeling to think about. I mean those people have gatekeeping built right into the basic mantra at this point; it feels like it would be holding up a red flag in front of the metaphorical bull and screaming "we're right here".
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Oct 31, 2018 17:46
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Comrade Gorbash posted:This is very true. I was thinking less a movement thing, and more just terminology. Similar to cosmic horror vs Lovecraftian. Contemporary classical.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:48
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I honestly wonder if it would be worth coming up with a different name for the OSR concept but for non-toxic people interested in that space. Trying to reclaim the OSR community at this point is a fool's errand, but the top-line concept of revisiting old games and iterating on dormant design concepts is good on its own.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:50
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"Blue-lined graph paper dungeons for everyone?"
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Oct 31, 2018 17:57
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Zereth posted:"Retro"? It works for video games.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:04
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make a thread dedicated to only talking about games published by Sine Nomine
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Oct 31, 2018 18:06
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gradenko_2000 posted:make a thread dedicated to only talking about games published by Sine Nomine well, i guess i'll get to typing
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Oct 31, 2018 18:07
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Rand Brittain posted:I think people especially hate thread bans because it's basically Mom and Dad coming down to declare that the other guy wins the argument. Telling someone they can't get the last word makes for some powerful butthurt.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:09
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I honestly wonder if it would be worth coming up with a different name for the OSR concept but for non-toxic people interested in that space. Trying to reclaim the OSR community at this point is a fool's errand, but the top-line concept of revisiting old games and iterating on dormant design concepts is good on its own. Or you could just play and create content for OSR games without spending your every waking moment wringing your hands over what other people in that community are doing and have done Like, the entire games industry is deeply problematic to its very core and this reeks of performative wokeness. The people in OSR are tiny and visible so you can make a big show of standing apart from them while you still put your time and investment into products put out by companies that still dont hire enough women, lgbt or minorities, youre still going to buy products from companies with sex pests on staff, still going to buy products from companies that underpay their workers and outsource to exploit foreign labor. Its ridiculous to pretend you occupy some higher moral ground just because you changed an acronym. OSR is a philosophy on game design, not a corporate entity. If you want to reclaim it, reclaim it.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:21
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Mirthless posted:OSR is a philosophy on game design, not a corporate entity. If you want to reclaim it, reclaim it. As far as writing games go I'm a talentless hack, so that's probably not an option. Instead I'll just spend my money on stuff from people I like.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:27
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Cessna posted:As far as writing games go I'm a talentless hack, so that's probably not an option. And thats fine. The OSR community is full of people who are not problematic and you can easily find them if you look. Being a broad community based on an idea rather than a corporate entity, your dollars dont have to support the people over there that you dont like. If you want OSR's community to be less lovely then participate in OSR and work to make it better. There is a lot of room and desire for that. The idea of just coopting the idea and creating s new name for it so you dont have to deal with the existing community just comes cross as kind of childish and fragile. They have some mean people and some fascists, so what. We do too. You been to TFR lately? We gonna come up with a new word for Goons so people understand we're fundamentally different?
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Oct 31, 2018 18:39
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Progressive Retro and Originalist Games or PROGs
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Oct 31, 2018 18:52
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"retro" would be a pretty decent label to use there's a few nuggets of good stuff in the osr that are worth salvaging
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Oct 31, 2018 18:52
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Mirthless posted:And thats fine. The OSR community is full of people who are not problematic and you can easily find them if you look. Being a broad community based on an idea rather than a corporate entity, your dollars dont have to support the people over there that you dont like. The majority of interactions I've had with and heard about with regards to the OSR community are massive harassment brigades. The last time I interacted with them (last week), someone doxxed me. I'm sure there are good people in the OSR community, but the garbage in the OSR community is loud and toxic and if you think otherwise, well, then odds are good that you're one of the toxic ones.
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Oct 31, 2018 19:10
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As far as I’m aware none of the “Brit wave” seem like jerks and all of their games actually have innovations, so that’s the part of old school stuff I’m interested in right now.
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Oct 31, 2018 19:15
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It's annoying that the regressive cave trogs have a need to insert themselves into (and dominate discussion of) anything dealing with old school gaming. For most people, it's just not worth exposing yourself to that hell.
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Oct 31, 2018 19:16
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Yeah I wanna say that if there was a way to get into cool old school stuff but with new innovations, or just plain refinement, maybe with some cool 80s retro colors, that’d be cool. It’s like board games: a lot of cool ideas are still around but are unpalatable to the modern taste, like Die Macher and 18xx. They have distinctively old school punishing design but thankfully there’s no culture trying to play gatekeeper for them. The harassment stuff sucks and having an easy acronym for that without having to dig through all the poo poo would be great. Imagine if there was a scene for good refinements for a d20 system: I’d rather not have to search through all the 3.5 poo poo to find them.
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Oct 31, 2018 19:30
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The only time i've ever had a really bad interaction with the OSR community was when I implied one of them was a fascist unprovoked.  and he was right, I was being a dick for no reason and mostly wrong besides.I don't condone doxxing and thats really lovely but its typical of any community (including this one) when provoked. A lot of OSR people feel cornered and attacked and for the most part a lot of people involved in the debate don't really know whats going on, just whose side they're on, which is pretty typical for twitter and social media in general. I'm not saying this is true for you, but people need to chill on both sides. A lot of this bad blood goes back to arguments and events that happened on blogs and Google+ half a decade ago. It's time to let it go. You don't have to embrace them, but you're allowed to like the same things and share some of the same ideas and you dont have to be ashamed about it. edit: like, mainly: arguing on twitter there's nothing to gain, there is no objective or achievable victory. i say all of this as somebody who is literally working on not arguing on twitter /w my therapist right now, it's loving my brain up. it's like it exists to just stoke a continual flame of outrage deep in my gut - for every fun post there's ten more about how everything is terrible and everyone is awful and it's generally agreed that the most commented on threads are ones where people are being relentlessly negative towards the poster and each other. nobody's mind is going to change because of a 288 character paragraph and nobody reads tweetstorms. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 19:31
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